Belly-Up Revisited

[Ace!]

These are the things to be considered when doing a flat skid (per a previous post):

"Exhaust, tub, t-case shifter linkage, motor mounts, upper and lower rear control arms, t-case, and a whole bunch of tinkering with stuff to dial it in." It also looks like I'd need BPEs.

What needs to be done to the exhaust, tub and t-case shifter linkage? Is the t-case shifter linkage something the mfg of the skid provides (new brackets/linkage and what-not)? I can figure out motor mounts, BPE, and lower rear control arms, but I'm wondering most about what the exhaust and tub mods entail.

I've got a 4" lift, SYE/CV drive shaft, rear upper control arms, and RE trackbars and rear trackbar bracket (the bent forward one).

Áron O'Proinntigh is ainm dom

[TJRON]

You need a 1" body lift.
You will need some shock extenders (lower).
You will not need lower adjustable control arms, just uppers.
You do not need BPEs.
Linkage comes with it. I used it, most don't.
I didn't do any exhaust mods.
I didn't do any tub mods except for the 1" BL.
Seems like you've got it covered.......
Good Luck,
Ron

[Jeff Weston]

Ace,

Here are my experiences with the Tera BU, RE 4.5" lift, 1" body lift & Currie raised motor mounts:

1) I removed the Currie MM's, put in some new bushings and gave them to William. It wasn't so much the melting bushings that got to me (I fixed that with some header wrap around the bushing), but the extra vibes. For whatever reason, I clearly was getting a bit more vibe than my brother's and father's Jeeps do. Anyway, I used the supplied Tera MM 1/2" spacers with an extra 1/4" spacer attached to it. I had to lower the fan shroud by about an inch to get everything to line up.

2) For the t-case linkage I simply redrilled the linkage pivot about 1-1/2" higher on the tub and filled the old holes with rubber plugs. The Tera linkage didn't work for me at all. Blaine has told me that raising the linkage does not necessarily work on all TJ's (e.g. Sergey's TJ). He has good success with the Advanced Adaptor relocation bracket. You may want to look into that option.

3) I have the Borla exhaust and did have to tweak the hangers a bit to get it to fit right. That said, it has been smacked around between the shock and gas tank skid a bit but seems to have settled in.

4) I needed adjustable lowers on the rear (fortunately already had them) to get the angle right. The uppers didn't provide enough adjustment with the RE 4.5" springs I had but would probably be okay with the PC springs I'm running now.

5) My shocks were a tight fit. Even with the Tera relocators the OME's wouldn't fit. I simply cut the metal dust shield off the top of the shock (now open similar to most other shocks) and they fit fine ... however, the extra length of the relocators is quite a target and provides a long moment-arm. A few weeks ago in the Little Sluice, I managed to hit them both hard, bending the whole mounts upward. The result was some extra "manmade" clearance at the price of two bent OME shocks (one leaking ). If you think you're gonna' be hitting some rocks I'd look into relocating the mounts.

Hope it helps. Good luck with the install. The added ground clearance is invaluable.

Jeff

[TJRON]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff Weston:
I needed adjustable lowers on the rear (fortunately already had them) to get the angle right. The uppers didn't provide enough adjustment with the RE 4.5" springs I had but would probably be okay with the PC springs I'm running now.[/quote]


Jeff, I have a set of RE lower control arms and they only get bigger than stock. I've seen that lots of people say they use adjustable lower arms in the rear, but have never understood what they can do for you unless they get smaller. Then I wonder if I would want shorter arms with a lift?


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
... however, the extra length of the relocators is quite a target and provides a long moment-arm. A few weeks ago in the Little Sluice, I managed to hit them both hard, bending the whole mounts upward. The result was some extra "manmade" clearance at the price of two bent OME shocks (one leaking ). If you think you're gonna' be hitting some rocks I'd look into relocating the mounts.
[/quote]

What brand relocators did you have. I wonder if it would make a difference? I've seen the Teras and they are bent metal and looke weak, the JKS are solid steel.

Thanks,
Ron

[Jeff Weston]

My RE lift actually came with one set of fixed lowers and one set of adjustable lowers because they ran out of fixed. The fixed measure exactly 16" center to center. My adjustables, adjusted all the way in, measure 15-5/8". It doesn't sound like much, but in my case, it was the difference between vibes or not. Frankly, I wish I had some adjustables for the front as well to make them longer. With the front uppers adjusted all the way in I'm getting 3.7° of caster. It handles and tracks fine but a little more ability to control my caster wouldn't be bad. As for the handling difference between the arms at 16" (like they were set for 55k miles) and 15-5/8" (12k miles), I can't tell any. That said, I only adjusted them in as a last resort.

I'm running the Tera shock relocators and they are made of a block of steel with a "C" channel welded on the end. The "hollow" ones you're thinking of may be the Currie relocators. As for the Teras on my Jeep they've held up fine and aren't bent a bit. It's the stock shock mounts that they are bolted to that got squished up.

In a perfect world I'd have the shock mounts relocated up out of the way (I'm actually gonna' do this) and I'd have some intermediate length arms like the ones on Garry's Jeep (some day?). Oh yeah, I'd also have the mounts welded correctly to compensate for the raised pinion.

Jeff

[TJRON]

I have had the RE adjustables on top and fixed on the bottom since las April. My fixed are 16 1/4" long. I bought a pair of adjustable to use on the back and was surprised they wouldn't go any shorter than the fixed. I'm glad I hung onto them as I'm having some grief with the rubber bushings and a spare set will be handy.
Yes, I think it was the Curries I compared the relocators to.
I think in a perfect world it also would be nice to relocate the spring perches after the flat skid mod. I've got a TJ Dana 44 I think I've decided to put in my Jeep. I'm in no hurry so maybe I'll go for the perfect world bracketry before installing it.
Thanks for the info!
Ron

[mrblaine]

Just a comment on the shock relocators. It matters not what the relocator is made of, or how it is made. The longer leverage will trash the stock mount if you land on it anyway. The stock mount will be trashed if you land on it without a relocator. The result is the same with or without relocators. The stock shocks are in a bad place for any type of rockcrawling.

The best idea is what was suggested and has been done by me on mine. Move them out of harm's way.

It is not who you know, It is who knows you
Jeeps do not make jeepers, jeepers make Jeeps.
Which is more important, the degree or education?

[TJRON]

I gotcha Blaine, the relocator makes a bad thing even worse.
Ron

[Ace!]

Agreed, the stock shock location leaves something to be desired. The shocks I pulled off were badly bashed on the bottoms. Actually, about everything I see under there has some sort of ding or scratch in it. I'm hoping the lift/tires, a flatter skid and the raised gas tank skid will help with those things.

I don't however have access to welding equipment, so will turning the rear shocks upside down (so there will be more room between the spring perch and the rod) or buying the extenders help or hurt? Is the Currie flat skid available (it used to be on the old site, but I don't see it on the updated site)?

Áron O'Proinntigh is ainm dom

Edit: I found the Currie skid afterall. I thought it was priced at $350, but it's listed at $499.95...hmmm.

[Ace!]

How much raised are the belly-ups? I was thinking an inch higher than stock (I don't know why), but figured I'd ask. An inch would be like riding on 35" tires, so if it's more than that...well, it'd be a lot more clearance than I was originally thinking.

Áron O'Proinntigh is ainm dom

[Jeff Weston]

I'd say it's closer to 2 to 2-1/2" raised. I think it sits down about 1" to 1-1/2" below the frame rail.

Jeff

[Ace!]

Wow, that's great! If nothing more, it makes me, on some level, feel like I'll be riding on 37" tires

Áron O'Proinntigh is ainm dom

[mrblaine]

I guess that means I will soon feel like I am riding on 41" tires.

It is not who you know, It is who knows you
Jeeps do not make jeepers, jeepers make Jeeps.
Which is more important, the degree or education?

[Ace!]

I heard! 37" tires. Are you doing anything like regearing, Atlas or anything else that will maintain the current off road "crawl" ratio or do you think you'll be fine the with your current set up? I looked up 37x12.5 and they were close to $500 each I think, unless it was a misprint (the 35x12.5 were only $175 or something in the same catalog). Have they come down?

Áron O'Proinntigh is ainm dom

[mrblaine]

I am in the process of building and acquiring all the parts and pieces for front and rear axles. I am going to attempt the lightweight route and see if my driving style will still let things live as well as they have in the past. I will be attempting to run 4:56's, same auto, med length arm conversion, triangulated rear, longer uppers in the front, and high pinions front and rear. 9" rear and 44 front. That would make the front stronger.

I already have the housing and axles for the rear. I am working on the front and will be considering the Currie bolt in Cherokee front 44.

All I have to really work on is the 17" beadlocks.

It is not who you know, It is who knows you
Jeeps do not make jeepers, jeepers make Jeeps.
Which is more important, the degree or education?

[Jeff Weston]

Blaine,

Why the 17" beadlocks? Are you going to be running, gasp, the new 37" BFG's which only come in 17's? I wasn't aware that the MTR's were made for 17" wheels. I saw a set of 37" BFG MTR's on 15" MRT beadlocks at the 4XDoc and it looked like a lot of tire. He also had a set of the BFG KM's on 17" pimp daddy wheels. Apparently, the 17" wheels are most abundant in the lowered Lincoln Navigator motif.

Sounds like it'll be mean!

Jeff

[Jeff Weston]

At the risk of bad netiquette (stumbled across this pic on the net), I'll post a pic of what can happen with the shock relocators. Mine aren't bashed up quite this much but they're well on their way.


Actually, the bottom of his shock is almost where I'd like mine to be (without the bracketry below, ofcourse).

Jeff

[mrblaine]

Jeff, I will be running the 37-12.50-17 MT/R.

Is this where you would like your shocks to be?



It is not who you know, It is who knows you
Jeeps do not make jeepers, jeepers make Jeeps.
Which is more important, the degree or education?

[Jeff Weston]

Shazam! Out of harms way where they belong. First, I get on the horn and order up some new rear shocks pronto. That little puddle of clear oil in my garage reminds me of that. Does anybody make a 17" beadlock?

Jeff

[mrblaine]

Yes, Champion makes a set. John Currie tested a set of the 17's in Farmington and will be running them on the front next year. The 15's will be on the back. That is if he can find a set of matching 15 and 17 wheels.

It is not who you know, It is who knows you
Jeeps do not make jeepers, jeepers make Jeeps.
Which is more important, the degree or education?

[Ace!]

Well, it certainly sounds like a very nice set up Blaine.

Áron O'Proinntigh is ainm dom