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  #1  
Old 10-13-2002, 11:28 AM
Daless2 Daless2 is offline
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Project Air Springs ? 97 TJ (large post)

Project Air Springs ? 97 TJ

As some of you know I have been playing around with developing an air springs suspension for my 97 TJ.

Why you ask?

I want to be able to modify (reduce) my roll over angles in certain situations, but there are other reasons as well.

While I have built my own airlift (and air lower) system it is sitting on a shelf in my shop, unused. I was not happy with the performance of what I cobbled together with the parts I had laying around.

That said I have just completed the installation of an air spring system that I purchased from Off Road Only called the ?AiROCK? system that is based on the over-the-road truck Firestone Air Springs.

Here is a picture of my passenger side front corner.



Please note I have a Currie Anti-Rock that will be going in. I wanted to test the air springs out with the sway bar disconnects first to see how they performed this way. The Anti-Rock will be going in later this week.

For those folks who may have an interest in learning more about this airlift kit from the folks who sell it you can find more information at their web site. http://www.offroadonly.com/airock.htm

Over the next week or so I would like to use this thread to post my installation experiences with this kit, share how I believe it performs and have a general discussion on the topic.



Pre-Install Setup:

My 97 TJ 4.0 was sitting on a 1-inch body lift; 2.5-inch Skyjacker coil springs in the front and 2-inch spacers using stock coil springs in the rear. Tires are BFG/MT/km32x11.50. There are adjustable upper control arms in the rear, and adjustable lower control arms in the front. The remaining control arms are stock.

There are two on board air systems, one (ARB) for my lockers and the other a York OBA system. These systems are plumbed together via two values to allow for almost a complete redundancy between the two systems.



What I installed:

I installed a Deluxe 4-inch AiROCK airlift system. (Also available in a 6-inch lift)

There are four major components to the AiROCK system:

1. Firestone Air Springs (four) with custom built stainless steel brackets.

2. In-cab Control Center that enables inflation and deflation of the air springs from the drivers seat and provides visual feedback of the air PSI throughout the system.

3. A solenoid controlled Air Manifold/Valuing system that is plumbed to the air springs and the OBA system and electrically controlled by the in-cab Control Center.

4. Four Bilstien 5100 Shocks with integrated bump stops



Here is a barrowed picture of all the items that came with this system.



Here is a shot of the Control Center mounted on the top of the dash center section and another of the air manifold mounted to the underside of the hood.






As this thread continues I will post more detailed pictures of these components and describe the installation process.



What do I want to get out of this installation:

My Jeep is built for the type of wheeling I do here in Kentucky, which is focused on climbing and managing relitively steep inclines and off camber angles. Lift, while somewhat important to these obstacles is not my primary concern. Managing roll over angles is.

I want the ability to dynamically adjust my suspension to modify and control the roll over angles of my Jeep. This is my primary objective.

When off camber I want the ability to lower the high side, thus buying myself a few extra degrees.

Given the small track of a TJ and the advertised performance of the AiROCK system my math tells me I can reduce left/right roll over angles by as much as 5 degrees. I should also be able to see another 3.50 to 3.75 degrees in the forward and backward end-over angles. (I intend to test this beyond what the math says.)

Right now, given how I have the air springs set up I can raise any corner or corners of my Jeep an additional 5 inches. I can lover any corner by just over 4 inches.

There are other benefits I expect to receive in taking this route.

I expect to gain the ability to push any or all tires down, with force to improve traction and aid in removal from a high centered condition.

I am also considering a second set of tires and wheels (35?s) for when I wish to travel around the country and wheel trails where they would be needed.

Load leveling, while not a primary concern to me certainly will be enabled via this system.


First Impressions?.

AiRock Components

These are first class components folks, all of them.

The vast majority appear to start out life as off the shelf industrial or over-the-road trucking industry components that are then modified, assembled or otherwise customized for the TJ application.

100% of all custom brackets and hardware to mount the air springs are made of stainless steel. While obviously ?shinny? I like the idea of no rust, ever!

As I go through this write-up I will have much to say about the individual components integration into this system. For now I will simply say without exception this is a first class premium quality kit.


Installation

Anyone with reasonable mechanical skills should be able to install this system.

The instructions are well written, and walk you through the installation step by step. With the exception of two misspelled words (Made me feel right at home) the installation instructions walk you through installing the four sub-assemblies; Control Panel, Air Solenoid Manifold, Front Springs and Rear Springs.

Skills required included minor automotive wiring (4 wires), Air Plumbing, Mechanical Bolt-on, and some Metal Cutting.

Over the next few days I will add a short write-up on my installation.

There was no fabrication involved other then some minor customization I elected to do with my OBA system.


Ride Quality and Initial Performance

Can you say ?SOFT??

I will have much more to say about this later as I get more on and off road seat time.

I have the system set up to give me 3 inches of total lift. This is ? -inch more in the front and 1-inch more in the rear then I had prior to the installation.

On road ride quality is noticeably softer then the ride with the coil springs, yet I cannot detect any additional body roll when going around corners. I was a bit concerned this would be problem. Seems that concern was unwarranted.

To date my off road experiences are limited to a few hours of testing yesterday.

Can you say ?SOFT??

All the flex I had before appears to be there. Perhaps a bit more that can be attributed to the Currie Adjustable Front Track Bar (with Johnnie Joint) that I installed at the same time.

I will have to get a lot more off road time soon. I have a trip planned to Tellico not this week, but the week after.


Support

During the installation I had a few minor questions all of which were resolved or explained to me with a phone call to Steve over at Off Road Only.

One issue I had dealt with my choice of locations for mounting the air manifold under the hood. My under hood real estate is very limited so I hung the air manifold on the underside of the hood. This caused the airline angles to be greater then I felt comfortable with. One call to Steve and the next day I had five 90-degree air fitting to resolve my problem.

Bottom line, support from Off Road Only has been great in my book.


I will be adding sections on the installation shortly.

Have a great day,

Frank
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  #2  
Old 10-13-2002, 11:55 AM
Stu Olson Stu Olson is offline
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Frank,

I look forward to hearing more comments about the system, especially after you are able to hit a number of your more familiar trails and compare the results.

I spend several weeks discussin this with Off Road Only some time back but we did not come to an agreement on a price. (neither of us had deep enoug pockets!)

Good luck and keep us informed!
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http://www.stu-offroad.com
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  #3  
Old 10-13-2002, 12:00 PM
Daless2 Daless2 is offline
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Thanks Stu.

As I said I don't have enough off road playing to make an adequate comparison, but I intend to rectify that in about a week. My wife Kathy and I are going to do a two week road trip down to Florida. On the way down we will be spending two day at Tellico where we can give it a good workout.

I will keep everyone informed as to how I feel it works there.

Frank
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  #4  
Old 10-13-2002, 06:30 PM
Daless2 Daless2 is offline
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In-Cab Control Center

The Deluxe In-Cab Control Center has six switches and an LED display housed in a stainless steel case.




From left to right these switches perform the following functions:

Air up/down Left Front air spring
Air up/down Right Front air spring
Air up/down All Four air springs simultaneously
LED Display
Air compressor on/off control
Air up/down Left Rear air spring
Air up/down Right Rear air spring

As I understand it there is another kit called the ?four corner kit? that has four switches, one to control each air spring, but no all up/down switch or compressor on/off switch.

The LED display lets you know the PSI of air is in each air spring, and if you install an optional pressure sending unit will also tell you the PSI in your OBA tank.

Please note air pressure must be regulated down to a maximum pressure of 100 PSI. I?ll tell you how I elected to do this later.


Installation

Installing the Control Center is easy. What?s hard is finding the right place in your Jeep to put it.

I wanted to install the Control Center down below the ashtray and auxiliary switches. It fits nicely there, however my Atlas II shifters were hitting the Control Center housing.

For the time being I have my Control Center mounted on top of the center section of the dash. While this is a handy location it has its draw back too.

Having a ?shinny? stainless steel housing sitting up there is an invitation to thieves, to say nothing of sunlight reflection off the stainless steel. Something is going to have to give here. Either I will heat and bend the T/Case shifter arms so I can fit the Control Center down low, or I will paint the housing flat black so it is not so attractive or reflective of sun light.

To mount the unit you simply take the cover off to gain access to three mounting holes on the bottom. I drilled three matching holes in the top of the dash panel and attached the unit with three nuts and bolts, then reassembled the cover.

Here is a picture of the Control Center with the cover off after I bolted it to the top of the dash center section.




The Control Center has a fourteen-wire multi-plug on the back. No need to worry about any of this wiring as a pre-assembled 16-foot umbilical cord plugs in here and connects the Control Center to the Air Manifold/ Valve-ing.

I routed the umbilical cord down under the defroster vent and then through the firewall at the oval shaped rubber grommet in the firewall.

In order to fit the cord behind the defroster vent I had to trim a slot for the cord using a dermal tool..





Primary Wiring

There are three individual wires on the back of the Control Center that must be wired into your Jeep.

The Black wire needs to go to a good ground. I used the ground wire on the back of the cigarette lighter.

The Red wire goes to a +12VDC ignition switched power source. I also taped into the cigarette lighter for this power source. You don?t have to worry about the current draw of this circuit, as it is extremely low. This wire also contains an inline fuse.

The Yellow wire goes to a dashboard nighttime lighting circuit so the display on the Control Center will dim for nighttime driving when the lights are on.. A convenient source for this connection can be found on any of the dashboard switches. I used the Orange wire on my fog light switch just above the cigarette lighter being I was already in the area for the other wire taps.

A fourth wire (Green) needs to be connected for the Deluxe Control Center.

This wire is used to supply ignition switch 12VDC to the coil side of the relay used to turn your air compressor system on. (Please note this wire should not be used to provide power directly to the compressor. This is a low current circuit. Use it only to power the coil of a relay that in turn will power the compressor.)

Here is a picture through the windshield looking at the back of the unit all wired up, plugged in and bolted in place.



As you can see it is fairly noticeable in this location. I have to come up with a better solution here. It?s on the list for some of my thought process.




That?s it for today folks. I have a few other commitments this evening. I hope you find this useful.

Have a great evening,

Frank
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  #5  
Old 10-13-2002, 10:20 PM
Brad Kilby Brad Kilby is offline
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Looks good Frank! I'm curious to see how you like the system once you've tested it a bit. I talked to ORO quite a bit at Moab and still owe them a couple more phone calls. They do indeed have a nice product there and have thought quite a bit about trying it myself. Btw, that digital gauge is pretty nice (and expensive). I have the single 2-1/16" prototype in my truck. It's been there about 2 years now.
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  #6  
Old 10-14-2002, 05:47 AM
Tumbleweed Tumbleweed is offline
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Frank, the only time I have ever seen those air bags puncture on our big trucks was when it was installed wrong and rubbed constantly on a frame bracket. They are pretty tough. This one rubbed for almost two years before it wore through and punctured. If you see a semi or mixer truck with a booster axle behind the cab, chances are it uses that style of airbag.
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  #7  
Old 10-14-2002, 10:08 AM
Daless2 Daless2 is offline
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Hey Don, how are you my friend?

Thanks for sharing your experiences with this type of air spring. Obviously the simply fact that a air bladder is there always leaves an exposure to a puncture.

I'm not sure how big an exposure this is as my coil springs sure don't look like they have taken any hits at all.

I guess time will tell.


Ride Height Range

This morning I took two quick pictures of my Jeep sitting at ?ride height?(sway bars connected), and a second picture at maximum height when aired all the way up.

Here the picture.



I would never operate my Jeep at the maximum ride height, but I thought this was interesting to show the range of movement above the ride height I have tuned my Jeep for.

Also note maximum height in this photo is being limited by the length of my sway bar links that are connected (and too short) in these photos.


Frank
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  #8  
Old 10-16-2002, 06:34 AM
Daless2 Daless2 is offline
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Air Management

Air Manifold/Solenoid Valves

The Air Manifold is the working end of the Control Center allowing compressed air to enter or leave each individual air spring.

The manifold base is made out of machined aluminum and mounts to a stainless steel mounting plate. Mounted to the manifold are eight solenoid-controlled valves, one intake and one exhaust valve for each Air Spring. There are also four Pressure Sending units used to feed PSI information to the in-cab control center.

There is one main intake port, which connects to your OBA system, and one main exhaust port with has a mini muffler attached to it. There are also four ports that connect to the Air Springs. Each port is terminated with a stainless steel push-n-lock air hose connector.

All solenoid valves and pressure sending units are pre-wired and terminate in a14 pin multi-pin connector that plugs into the unbiblical cord connected to the in-cab Control Center.


Mounting the Air Manifold

Like the Control Center, it is easier to mount the Air Manifold then it is to find a place to mount it.

The two recommended locations on my Jeep where already taken, the ABS tray just below the brake boaster, and the area freed up upon removal of the stock air box.

I had to come up with an alternate location to mount the air manifold on my Jeep. I choose the under sided of the hood.

First I bolted the mounting plate on, and then attached the air manifold to the plate.

Here is a picture of the mount bolted to the underside of the hood, near the firewall and centered on the cross members.




The Air Manifold then bolts to the mount. When the hood is closed the manifold is hanging upside down. This is not an issue for this hardware, however I did add four Nylock nuts to the underside of the mounting bracket just to insure the bolts and existing Nutcerts (on the mounting plate) would not pull through.

You can see the air manifold mounted, solenoids, pressure sending units, main exhaust port, four air spring ports and the multi-connector in this picture.





On Board Air Supply

An On-Board Air supply is needed. This supply must be filter and regulated to no more the 100PSI (and capable of maintaining 30 PSI) to stay within the operating range of the Air Springs.

The On Board Air system is used to raise the air springs. Once raised it is no longer needed unless you lower the system and wish to raise it again.

The OBA System shouldn?t leak down, as the Air Manifold Solenoid Valves require 30 PSI of backpressure. My York OBA system does leak down due to a minor leak in a fitting. (I need to fix this). I eliminated the impact of this leak down by installing an $8 check valve in the airline going to the Air Manifold on Steve?s recommendation.


Here is a picture of the regulator/filter and an optional pressure sending unit which I installed to read the total PSI in my air system that is available for use in the air springs.




The regulator is mounted under the hood on the passenger side right behind the headlight as this was the only real estate I had available to me. I protected the polycarbonate bowl on the filter with a small piece of aluminum reflective tape just to try and keep radiator heat down. So far so good.

Please note, the optional pressure sending unit must be grounded or it will not send a signal to the Control Center. Being there is no terminal on the pressure sender to do this I had to come up with a way.

I used a stainless steel hose clamp. I threaded a short wire through some of the holes in the clamp and then did an ?ugly? soldering job on these wires.

The clamp was then put around the mounting nut of the pressure sending unit and tightened down. The other end of the wire was connected to a body ground directly behind the headlight.

The signal wire that comes with the optional pressure-sending unit goes to a single freestanding wire coming off of the air manifold. Basically you crimp a push on connector onto the wire from the pressure sender and plug it in. Not much room for me to screw up here.

One air hose connects the air regulator to the main intake port on the air manifold.

The SAE type air hose is ?-inch outside diameter and comes supplied with a hose cutter tool. It is very important that the hose be cut cleaning and at a 90 degree angle.

To get this cut with the supplied tool is incredibly simple. Once again, little room for me to screw up.

In my case, because my OBA system leaks down I had to tap into this hose and add that little check valve. Here?s a picture of it.




The Deluxe In-Cab Control Unit has a switch used to control the coil side of the relay controlling the OBA System (The Green wire on Control Center). I connected this wire up and now have all the air management controls in one place, on the Control Center.

Once I had the Air Manifold and In-Cab Control System installed I t6ested it to insure all was functioning as advertised. It did. Both of these sub-systems should be installed and tested prior to moving on to install the actual air springs.

Later today I will put up a few short words on the air spring installations.

Frank
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  #9  
Old 10-16-2002, 10:23 AM
Daless2 Daless2 is offline
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Front Air Springs

The front Air Springs come with two custom stainless steel brackets that are needed to bolt the air springs to the frame and the axle.

Here is a picture of the top bracket used on the front air springs.




The bottom of the front air spring also get a bracket that slips over the solid metal piston on the bottom of the air springs and mates to the axle spring perches.





Installation

This installation is not rocket science work, but you do have to remove some existing parts which include the track bar, shocks, springs, bump stops and sway bar disconnects.

Once I had everything out and the axle supported by floor jacks I took the time to sand blast off loose paint and light rust so I could paint everything up nicely using Hammerite.


Fitting the Top of the Front Air Springs

The only real cutting involved anywhere in this installation deal with the upper bump stop perches. These need to be trimmed down to 2-inches. This isn?t difficult to do with a saw-z-all or other type of reciprocating metal cutting saw.

In order to insure accuracy I measure down two inches from the top and then marked this line with a piece of duct tape. Then I simply cut the bump stop perch off at the tapes edge.

Here are a couple of photos of the perch marked with the tape and what was cut off.







The bottom spring perch needs to have a ?-inch hole drilled in the center of it. This hole will be used to bolt the bottom of the air spring into place.

Here is an ugly picture, with the metal drill fillings still in place.




To mount the front air springs you simply slide the top mount over the upper bump stop stub and attach to the top with a rather large 1-7/8-inch nut. Being I don?t have a wrench this size I used a pipe wrench to tighten this nut down.




The bottom of the air spring has a ?-inch stud that passes through the hole drilled in the bottom of the spring perch. You need to put a stainless steel 3/4-inch Nylock nut on this stud.

Here is a picture from the bottom of the axle on the driver?s side.




Doing this on the driver?s side is a no-brainer, but the passenger side is a different story.

On the passenger side the stud on the bottom of the air spring is located under the axle track bar mount. There is no easy access to it to put the nut on. The folks over at Off Road Only have come up with a way to do this rather simply.

They supplied a small piece of clear hose that is used to start the nut threading onto the stud through the misaligned hole where the track bar mounts lives. Once the nut has been started a ?-inch ?Crow?s Foot Wrench? is needed to get into the misaligned access slot to tighten the Nylock nut down.

When I first saw this I scratched my head, figuring this was going to be a big headache. As it turned out the procedure described in the directions worked flawlessly the first time.

Here are a couple of pictures that demonstrate what had to be done.

?-inch Nylock nut on the end of the supplied hose.




Inserting the nut with the hose to get it started.




This is the nut inserted in through the slot. Now you have to tighten it down a bit.




To tighten this nylock nut you will need a ?-inch ?Crow?s Foot Wrench?




I found you have to slide the Crow?s Foot Wrench into the slot and then attach a socket extension to it. It just wouldn?t fit through the hole (slot) while attached to the extension. It can be a little tricky positioning the Crow?s Foot Wrench to get the socket extension onto it once it is in the slot, but it is doable.

While I am not all knowing I can?t imagine how the nylock nut on the driver?s side could possible be tightened without the use of the ?-inch crows foot wrench.

While I had crow?s foot wrenches in my tool chest (Never ever used before) I did look around to see what these cost. Ace Hardware will sell you the one size you need for about $16. Napa will sell you an entire set, including the size you need (3/4-inch) for $14. Else, I would barrow one from a friend.

Once the top mount of each air spring is tight, and the bottom nuts have been started (but not tightened fully yet) I ran the airlines.

The air fittings for the front air springs are located inside the top spring mount, about three inches down.

To install the hose you simply cut the end square with the supplied tool and use the ?brail system? with the end of the air hose to feel around for the air fitting through the top of the top mount. Once again this is really not difficult to do. Once I found the fitting I simply pushed the hose in and pulled it back a bit for it to seat and seal.

I ran the air lines from the air springs to the air manifold, again cutting it square and to size and did the push/pull into the appropriate fitting on the manifold.


Shocks

I then put the shocks in place.




The shocks that came with this system are Bilstien 5100 with a custom built-in bump stops.

The bump stops lives under the blue shock bellows and sits around the shock shaft at the top of the sock. The bump stops, like all others are designed to collapse or compress when contacted.

I?m not completely sure on this bump stop concept. I need to test this out fully as to the performance of these bump stops and their effects on the shocks. If I need to I will engineer my own bump stops that live back on the frame and contact the axle directly.

Time will tell on this one.

Once the shocks were on I put a little air in the air springs, just enough to allow them to remove any deformities. Then I put the tires on, and inflated both air springs to 40 PSI before lowering my Jeep to the ground.

This is necessary to allow the air springs to naturally seat themselves. Once the weight of my Jeep was sitting on the air springs I slide under the axle and tightened those two ?-inch lower air spring nylock nuts down.

After double-checking everything I re-connected the sway bar. I did not put the adjustable track bar on yet as I wanted to complete the rear air spring installation prior to setting up any front end geometry.

Hopefully I will get that section written up latter.

Frank
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  #10  
Old 10-17-2002, 06:17 AM
Daless2 Daless2 is offline
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Rear Air Springs

Installation

Installing the rear air springs is pretty straightforward. The old springs and shocks need to come out first. I also had to unbolt the bump stop hardware and remove the plastic spring spacers that sit above and below the rear coil springs. It also helps to disconnect the rear sway bar, and in my case I removed the track bar as I needed to put a relocation bracket on the frame.

Prior to removing the track bar I cut the end of the bolt off the track bar to frame mount. This bolt sticks out too far and would run the risk of hitting the passenger side air spring. I used a saw-z-all to cut this.

Here is a before and after picture of the bolt that needs to be cut.






The threaded hole in the upper spring perch where the bump stops was mounted needs to be drilled out to 3/8-inch.

The lower spring perches needs to have a ?-inch hole drilled in the centered in the bump on the spring perch. I do not have a photo of the top perch, but here is the bottom.




The rear air springs simply bolt into the two holes drilled into the upper and lower spring perches. The upper mount has a custom bracket that matches the contour of the frame. You can see the contour and the air fitting sitting with that bracket below.




The rear bottom mount stud slips through the ?-inch hole in the lower spring perch.




After sliding the air spring mounting studs into the drilled hose I tightened the top mounting nut down, but left the lower mounts finger tight. After the air lines are attached and the system is pressurized and the Jeep weight is sitting on the springs for them to seat, the lower nut is tightened.


Air Lines

Installing the air lines for the rear air springs is straightforward. I simply routed the lines and pushed them in. I did choose to route both lines to the drivers side, crossing over to the passengers side air spring by the rear gas tank cross member so as to avoid the heat of the exhaust system.

One precaution I took was to wrap the outside of the air line where it passes over the exhaust pipe with aluminum reflective tape. I am not sure this needs to be done as the line is plenty far away from the exhaust pipe, but it made me feel better to do this.

Here you can see the aluminum tape around the air line for the rear passenger side.




Here is a picture of the right rear air spring mounted on top with the air line installed





Shocks

The rear shocks are also Bilstien 5100?s with custom built in bump stops under the blue bellows. They bolt up just like any other shock.



Air Up

Once the shocks were on I re-installed the rear track bar (and installed a relocation bracket that my Jeep needed.) and re-connected the rear sway bar.

Then I put a few pounds of pressure in the air springs to get any deformities out.

After putting the tires and wheels back on I aired up to 40 pounds and lowered the Jeep to the ground. Once the weight was on the air springs and they seated, I tightened the lower rear spring perch nuts. These are accessible from a slot between the spring perch and the axle tubes.


What?s left?

Once all the hardware and the air springs are installed and the Jeep is sitting on the air springs I had to set up all the geometry, which included choosing a normal ?ride height?. setting the axle track, pinion angles, caster and toe on my Jeep.

I will write this section up a bit later.

Frank
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  #11  
Old 10-17-2002, 08:25 AM
TJRON TJRON is offline
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Frank,
How is the ride with the bags pumped up for a high lift as would be used in rock crawling? I know the more air I put in my truck air bags, the stiffer it gets.
Thanks,
Ron
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  #12  
Old 10-17-2002, 10:22 AM
Daless2 Daless2 is offline
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Hi Ron,

The system I put is designed to ride at 4 inches of lift over stock. That however is not all the way up. There are approximately another 4 to 5 inches on top of that.

Given the system is designed for 4 inches of lift I have tested it a bit at that level, yet I have it set for normal drive height at 3 inches over stock as that is all I need.

If someone needed more then four inches for rock crawling they do make a system with larger air springs which is designed for 6 inces of lift.

At 3 or 4 inches I can not tell any differearnce in perceived hardness. Please read that as they appear to be equally soft, or at least I am not able to discern any significant difference.

I can say without any question the ride is much softer then with the coil springs. Damatically softer.

I only have a few hours of off road experience with it. During that time I had it set at both 3 and 4 inches of lift.

At either height the performance was much "softer" then the coils.

Hard or looe of flex are not words I would currently use to describe my limited experiences.

I can say I did play with airing the system all the way up to about 9 inches.

At that level it does indeed get very very firm (hard) but all my suspension components are all maxed out at that height too. I could never wheel that way.

I must say, for what it is designed for (4 inches of lift) I am initially impressed. None of the war stories of lose of flex appear to be coming true.

Last winter I built my own air suspension system. The reason it's not in my Jeep is becuase it was incredibly hard and effected flex by not allowing adequate compression of the high side corners.

I see none of that with this system. I am indeed very pleasantly surprised.

In fairness, I only have 3 or 4 hours of exercising the suspension.

A week from this coming Sunday I will be leading a ride through Natural Bridge. I know these trails and obstacles like the back of my hand. After that ride I will be much more able to give an honest assessment on how it performs on obstacles I know very well. Apple to apple comparison.

All the flex I have just seems to be arrived at easier, smoother or something. It is hard to put in words.

I will get lots of photo's on that ride and perhaps that will help.

Hope your enjoying the rest of your trip! I'm headed down to Florida for a week or so, but not to wheel (Heck that whole state is only 12 feet above sea level.) Just doing the white sand beach, read a good book routine!

Frank
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Old 10-17-2002, 11:20 AM
KY-Jeep KY-Jeep is offline
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Great write-up, Frank. I love the idea for the air springs. I'm involved in transit bus manufacturing quality assurance, and transit bus maintenance, and air spring suspension is all that is used on the big buses. The air bladders are extremely tough, and last for hundreds of thousands of miles, literally, on transit coaches. That's not to say that some don't fail, but most last the life of the bus (12 years, 500K).

I'm heading down to Slade on Saturday if you're interested in checking them out a week early. Otherwise, hopefully I'll see you on the trails in action some other time.

Take care.
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Old 10-17-2002, 05:37 PM
Timzjatl Timzjatl is offline
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That is an AWESOME Writeup! I really enjoyed it. I assume that you set your alignment at your standard road height? With the way that the front end of a TJ/ZJ/XJ is designed toe and caster change significantly with changes in height. I wouldn't think it would matter much off road, but you sure couldn't go from 4" to 9" (system max) and turn lock to lock without some issues... I'd most be worried about Steering Stabilizer and Swaybar mount clearance, since those were definite problems with my ZJ at 7". As long as you don't try and steer much with the system at max height you'd be A-OK. It sounds like you'd only use the max height settings to put downforce on a drooping tire or to free a highcentered situation. I'd love to see it, next time you're at tellico, shoot me a message... Right now I'm in the middle of an axle swap...

Tim
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Old 10-17-2002, 05:54 PM
Overkill Overkill is offline
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That's one of the coolest thing's I've ever seen. Tim, this is MattsZJ, shoot me an email if you want to discuss doing this on a ZJ

I've got some ideas, how scary!

Matt
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Old 10-17-2002, 06:48 PM
Daless2 Daless2 is offline
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Setting Up the Geometry

Prior to installing this 4 inch air spring lift system I took some measurements at the four corners of my Jeep. I wanted to know the exact height I had to start with so I would know how to get to the height I wanted, 3 inches above stock.

I had 2.5-inch coil springs in the front, and 2-inch spring spacers in the rear. What I needed to set my ride height at 3 inches was an additional 1/2-inch in the front and 1 full inch in the rear.

Before attempting to set up any of the geometry I cycled the air springs through their full motion several times. My thought was to work out any kinks and identify any binds in the suspension components. I?m not at all sure this did anything but I have to say it sure was rewarding and fun to do!

It is important to realize that the four-inch lift AiROCK system is sold to be installed on a Jeep that already has all the steering and suspension components needed to support a 4-inch lift. Mine did not so I had to add a few items.

After cycling the air springs a half dozen times I set the ?ride height? to 3 inches, even though the system is designed for 4-inches.

I am not looking for height, only enough to clear my tires and the obstacles I normally wheel. Height for me is not a good thing. Maintaining all four wheels pointing down is.

Setting the ride height to 3 inches involved an air pressure of 52 PSI in the front air springs. Bring the rear up to 3 inches required 55 PSI of air.

3-inches above stock is where I want my everyday on and off road ride height to be.


Rear Track Bar

Prior to this installation I was running a stock rear track bar located in the stock location.

It didn?t take long to realize this wasn?t going to work. I elected to install a Rubicon Express Track Bar Relocation Bracket.

This bracket raises the frame mount end of the track bar about 4 inches. This worked great. My rear axle is now centered within 1/8-inch of perfect. I can live with that.


Front Track Bar

I replaced the front track bar with a Currie Adjustable Unit with the Johnny Joint. I have to say, this is one heck of a heavy-duty bar. I also feel this contributes to an improvement in my Jeeps ability to flex.

With the help of my friend Jon we centered the front axle within the same 1/8-inch difference.

Note: In cycling the front suspension I found my front differential skid plate lightly hitting the Johnny Joint (frame) end of the track bar. This issue was resolved by clearancing the skid plate just a bit.


Pinion Angles

Once the axles where centered under my Jeep and the Jeep was sitting at the 3 inch ride height I went about setting the pinion angles.

This was easy!

Both the rear and front pinion angles where well within tolerances. Both were less than 3 degrees at the 3-inch ride height. Part of this goodness clearly belongs to the long drive shafts connecting to the Atlas T/Case. Three degrees is more then good enough to handle drive shaft speeds of 5,000 RPM

I raised the Jeep to its maximum height to see what kind of angle I would get. The front went up to 7 degrees and the rear to 6.5. I can live with that during temporary situations off road.

In the future if I find the need to go up to 35-inch tires I will probably replace the lower rear and upper front control arms to adjustable units. I may do this now anyway to get the benefits of eliminating the stock arm binds. We?ll see.


Steering Geometry

Once pinion angles where verified and with the Jeep sitting at the 3-inch ride height it was time to set the steering.

I set the toe to the standard 1/8-inch toe in. I did this using the ?measuring tape to tire mold mark method? as this seams to have always worked well for me.

Once the toe was set I centered the steering wheel by adjusting the drag link collar. No brainier here.

I have no personal means of setting caster so I will be bringing it into a friends shop when I get back from vacation for this. I do have adjustable lower control arms in front, but I also have the cam adjustment to set the caster. Hopefully there will be enough left in those cams to set it up correctly.


Other Geometric Conditions

Once I get the chance to fully evaluate this system both on and off road I will be making a few more changes.

I generally do not like to make multiple changes at the same time as it muddies up the water in trying to understand what change had what effect on how my Jeep performs.

I do have a Currie Anti-Rock that is going to be put on very shortly.

There is a total of 9-inches of travel in this suspension, full compressed to full droop. I have discovered the rear sway bar links to be two inches too short. These will be replaced.

I plan to order the parts to replace these links with the hiem joint type links as describe on Stu Olson?s web site.

In all likelihood I will replace the four remaining stock control arms with adjustable and more flexible units.


That?s about it for now folks. I think I have covered what was required to install this system, and what my initial impressions are. I have a vacation coming up. But I will be back a week from the coming Sunday to wheel the Natural Bridge trails. I will be sure to report back on how this change performs on obstacles that are well known to my Jeep.

The apples to apples comparison, even with my interpretation should be interesting.

Have a great evening folks,

Frank
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Old 10-17-2002, 07:57 PM
Daless2 Daless2 is offline
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Air Spring Mechanics

I have been trying to understand why this air spring system has such an incredibly soft, flexible ride when compared to my own air spring system that failed miserably in this department.

In studying these air springs and watching how they work I realized their mechanics? are far different then a simple air bag.

In a regular air bag compressed air enters and the bag grows by stretching the bag upwards and outward. Much like a balloon.

In these Firestone air springs the air bag itself straddles and surrounds a rather larger metal piston that forms the lower spring mount.

Think of this as the air bag itself is rolling up and down the outside surface of this piston because that is what it is doing.

As air enters the bag instead of pushing the bag like a balloon in all directions it simply ?unrolls up? the piston. When air pressure is lowered the air bag ?rolls down? the mounting piston.

This same rolling Up and Down occurs when driving the Jeep and hitting bumps.

Here is a simple drawing I did to show what a vertical cross-section of the air spring looks like, showing the air bag rolled on the piston, and what it looks like rolled up when the pressure is high. As the Jeep moves and the air spring manages the ups and down of the suspension travel the air bag is cycling or rolling up and down the piston instead of pressing against the outer walls of the air bag having little place to go..




In playing around with the Jeep and the air springs today I found that it didn?t matter much how many PSI of air I had in the air springs. The ride was still soft. Much softer then with the coil springs. This remained true throughout the entire range upper to lower of the air springs. The ride did not alter very much at all until the upper and lower limits where reach (maxed out.)

I think this softness, and the apparent ability to flex so well can be attributed to the design of the Firestone air springs. By rolling up and down the piston the volume changes dynamically in relationship to the spring air pressure.

I need to explore this farther, but I did want to share this observation.

Frank
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Old 10-17-2002, 09:25 PM
Hyperman Hyperman is offline
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Frank, this has been a great thread to follow. Great write up and great pictures to show the individual steps. I would assume they would take this and use as the company's own manual. Would be neat if you could come out and play with us some time.

Once again, enjoyed your company and this time dinner will be on us.
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Old 10-18-2002, 05:28 AM
Daless2 Daless2 is offline
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Hi Donald - (KY-Jeeper)

Thanks for the info on what you have seen on how these springs hold up.

Sorry I can't make it this Saturday as we are headed out on vacation for a few days. I was down at White's Arch last Saturday near Slade. That is where I did my initial testing.

A week from this coming Sunday there are a few of us going to wheel Natural Bridge. I don't know what time we are going to meet yet but your more then welcome to join us.

Let me know and I will get the info to you when I know.


Hi Tim - (Timzjatl)

Thanks for the kind words.

Last evening I put a post up describing exactly the point you have raised. All the geometry does indeed need to be reset. Wasn't a big deal but is a necessary one.

I would enjoy wheeling Tellico with you some time. We'll have to plan on doing this soon.


Hi Matt (Overkill)

Ideas are great! Go for it my friend! Do something new, different. Heck if it doesn't work out (Like most of my crazy ideas) you will learn a ton of stuff in the process!

If I can be of any help please don't hesitate to bounce your ideas off me.

Heck, bounce them off the group here. I think you'll find a ton of good, honest advice.

Have a great day.


Hi Rich,

Glad you enjoyed following the thread. I have a tendency to get a bit "wordy" at times.

It was such a pleasure to me to sit down around a dinner table, break bread, and just enjoy the small talk and company of folks I have come to know and call freinds. Hopefully I will be able to make it out your way with my Jeep in the early part of next year. It would indeed be a blast to wheel with you folks from my own driver's seat this time!


God Bless you all.

I'm out of here tonight or tomorrow morning for a week or so in Florida. I'll have the Think Pad to check email, but other then that I will be out of pocket for a few days.

Frank
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Old 10-30-2002, 05:09 PM
Daless2 Daless2 is offline
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This past weekend I had a chance to really work out the new air spring suspension I installed on my Jeep. I will tell you up front it exceeded all my expectations by miles.

While I don't have the greatest pictures to share with you (It rained like you wouldn't believe and turn all the dirt between the rocks into one big mud slurry and no one wanted to get out of their Jeep to take pictures for me) I will post a few that I have before the rains came.

My biggest concern was not if I could alter my roll over angles in a positive way, I was certain I could do that, but rather how would it flex and follow the terrain.

It was so smooth, I just don't know how else to say it. There was much less apparent spring unloading when off camber, and getting to the max limits of my suspension component seems to be almost effortless. Smooth, soft, yet much much less body roll.

I had the front sway bar disconnected and the suspension set for 4 inches above stock. Compressing a corner had little effect on the body angle until the very extremes of compression where reached and then I think it was becuase I was on the bump stops. If I stayed off the bump stops the body stayed level. I found this truly remarkable.

One problem I did have was with the rear sway bar links. They are too short. (Anyone have the part numbers for the Currie AR type link parts from Grainger?) I have to fix this.

If all goes to plan I will install the Currie Anti-Rock this week and see what effects that has on my Jeep both off and on road.

Here are a few pictures.

As you can see our rocks here are a bit different then those out west. Ours are generally very large (school bus to house size) and attached to the ground firmly, separated by dirt till it rains (then mud), and intertwined with lots and lots of trees.

Here's a few pictures. I will get many more next time out, as these certainly are not of any extreme obstacles. (Yes we have them too! Like Moab in many ways but our rock is truly "Slick Rock Smooth" in comparison.


While you can't see it in this picture I am driving across one of the largest "Natural Bridges" in the country. This one is called "White's Arch" and is about 15 feet wide and located on the top of a mountain. At the 16 feet (on either side) there is a 600 foot drop almost straight down. (Figured I'd give a geography lesson while showing these pictures.)

I pulled the right front up on this ledge so as to test the front articulation. In all honesty I didn't think I was up there. It felt so different, and went up so effortlessly. I am estimating there are a few more inches of travel left. Many 2 to 2.5 more down on the driver side and another 1 up on the passenger side.





This next photo does not do it justice. What you are looking at is solid rock and it is much more steep then it appears. I included this picture to show the different corners going in different directions. Again, smooth or soft is the only way to describe the flex even if it is on some really smooth rock. I have wheeled these areas many many times and was very pleased with how effortlessly my Jeep went over these with the air springs.




Here's one on the way down Slide Hill which gets extremely steep (read that many roll over on this one) just a few more feet in front of my Jeep and goes on for a very long way down. This is like Sand Hill coming out of the Hammers in that it is virtually impossible to get up and is impossible to get up when it rains. We hit the bottom about the time of the torrential rain fall and had no choice but to deal with the mud fields at the bottom. (See photo under the :How Many Gallons Post.)




Here is the last decent picture I have. It's nothing special but I liked it so you get to see it.





I am struggling to adequately describe my impressions of how my TJ handles with the Air Springs as compared to before. I think one of the best analogies I can come up with would be to generally compare a leaf spring YJ to a coil spring TJ ride quality and flex ability. TJ just seam to flex and get there easier then the leaf spring YJ. (No offence YJ folks, I am speaking generally.)

It is clearly far easier to move or flow the suspension over the terrain, there is far less body roll, even when at extreme off camber angles, and the air springs appear to absorb more violent bounces such as bump impacts to get over an obstacle.

I am very pleased with this, and I think in the long run I will remain pleased, but I do intend to be open minded as much as I am capable of being and test the heck out of it.

With the exception of a minor secondary bounce (on -road) when large bumps are hit at high speeds I haven't found anything negative to report.

Tomorrow if I can I plan to measure the angles that I can control between left and right side and front to back on the Jeep. These angles will be the angles by which I can reduce a roll over situation by and that my friends is why I installed this in the first place. Any other benifits I get are a plus to me.

While I don't have a picture to share I was able to test the off camber angle reduction on a section of a trail which I do all the time. There is no doubt that lowering my high side while off camber greatly shifted the physical center of gravity of my Jeep in relationship to the plane of gravity.

The last time I did this trail my wife was driving and I spotted. She followed the most conservative line and yet I was able to stand by the high side of my off camber Jeep and could literally pick it up by the rocker guard and roll it if I wanted to with perhaps no more then 25 pounds of uplift force.

Taking a far more aggressive line this past weekend I was able to alter the roll over angle so much that one of my biggest Jeeping friends could not lift the passenger side at all.

This my friends Greatly Pleased ME!!!!!!!

I need to play with this a lot more, but so far I am impressed with the performance and benifits I have seen.

Time will tell.

I realize this isn't the greatest piece of writing here, but I am indeed struggling to describe this and I just don't have the words or examples yet.

Any questions? Perhaps they will help flush it out better.

Frank
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Old 10-31-2002, 09:43 AM
Daless2 Daless2 is offline
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Managing Off Camber Angles - Artificially

As I shared upfront the primary reason I elected to install the AiROCK Air Spring System was to enable the ability to control rollover angles dynamically from inside my Jeep.

That said I just took a picture of my Jeep sitting on level ground inside my garage. I took the AiROCK suspension to it?s extremes so as to capture and demonstrate just how much ?artificial? angle is available to be applied when off camber.

Here?s the shot.




As you can see this is a significant angle.

I do not have the ability at the moment to measure the angle as my angle finder is on loan to a friend, but I am guessing it to be about 15 to 17 degrees. (I?ll measure the angle later.)

If my off camber rollover angle to the drivers side is 35 degrees I expect to be able to apply a large percentage of this 15 to 17 degrees to offset some of this roll over angle.

As soon as I get the time I will take my Jeep to the scales and weigh it at the extreme ends of this angle management to get actual and factual effects on the Center of Gravity of my Jeep.

I do believe there is more angle to be had, as my rear sway bar links are far too short and preventing any additional movement. I need to resolve this soon.


That?s about it for now folks.

Frank
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Old 11-01-2002, 06:05 AM
Daless2 Daless2 is offline
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Good Morning Folks,

It is surprising how much artificial movement can be applied via these air springs, yet if I think about it?.. Hmmm.......

A standard 4-inch lift spring should indeed somewhat center the weight of the Jeep within the range of motion available from the spring, from full compression to fully unloaded.

The air springs do the same, but the spring rates are infinitely (and artificially) variable (within a range of motion). Applying or removing air pressure has a direct effect on the spring rate and the height of any corner of the Jeep.

Coil springs are reactive to the amount of weight on the springs. Air springs are dynamic in providing the ability to ?Power? up or ?Power? down the springs.

I believe any 4-inch coil spring system would have a similar range of motion as these air springs, but that range of motion can only be achieved by off-loading or on-loading a spring passively with weight.

The air springs can be off-loaded or on-loaded dynamically. This dynamic ability is exactly what I was looking for in my efforts to manage rollover angles.


Artificially Angles

I did get a chance to measure the actual ?artificial angles? that can be generated when taking the air springs to their maximum positions.. (Please note I used a standard angle finder with an analog indicator to take these measurements. I do have a digital unit and will verify these recording when I get it back.)

The Left to Right and Right to Left ?artificial angle? is just a hair over 17 degrees. Please note this angle is a function not only of air spring lift but also the width of the wheel track.

The Front (raised) to Back angle is 11 degrees, and the Back (raised) to Front angle is just under 9 degrees.

The difference in Back to Front and Front to Back is cause by reaching the limits of my rear sway bar links. I expect to get this angle in line once I resolve this issue.

Front to back and left to right artificial angles vary because wheelbase is much larger then the wheel track.


Frank
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Old 11-01-2002, 07:06 AM
Hellbender Hellbender is offline
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Good morning Frank,

Looks like you are going to have a blast playing w/ that set-up!

I have a question on the artificial side to side (L to R and R to L) angle inducement, are you measuring this on LEVEL ground with both left side springs @ 0 pressure and both right side springs at max. pressure ? If so, how would the (tire) track width affect this measurement (on level ground)?

The only way to affect this would require the spring mounting points to be changed, not the track width (again, on level ground).

Wheelbase changes would affect the angles IF the spring mounting points were moved to correspond with the axle movement.

Obviously, on uneven ground, ANY width or length increase would increase overall stability (all other things being equal), but not necessarily the body angle changes in relation to the axle you've discussed.

Maybe I am not fully understanding your explanation.

HB
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Old 11-01-2002, 08:00 AM
Hellbender Hellbender is offline
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Frank,

Also, when you build your swaybar links, the length is important not only to aid droop, but can be adjusted to act as a limiting device (like a strap) to protect your shocks and other components. I use grade 8 all-thread (cut it long at first, so you can adjust the length carefully). and 1/2" female hiems w/ studs (I'd get SS bodied hiems since you are around the mud, like me), use a Dremel or die grinder to enlarge the hole in the swaybar to 1/2", as it's too hard to drill.

Another question about your system, if you aired opposing corners up and the other 2 down could you somehow hook a small strap (or something) to the aired down corner/s (teetertotter the jeep) to change tires, work on stuff, etc?

Sounds like a fun project w/ lots of possibilities.

Brad
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Old 11-01-2002, 08:17 AM
Daless2 Daless2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hellbender
Good morning Frank,

Looks like you are going to have a blast playing w/ that set-up!

I have a question on the artificial side to side (L to R and R to L) angle inducement, are you measuring this on LEVEL ground with both left side springs @ 0 pressure and both right side springs at max. pressure ? If so, how would the (tire) track width affect this measurement (on level ground)?

The only way to affect this would require the spring mounting points to be changed, not the track width (again, on level ground).

Wheelbase changes would affect the angles IF the spring mounting points were moved to correspond with the axle movement.

Obviously, on uneven ground, ANY width or length increase would increase overall stability (all other things being equal), but not necessarily the body angle changes in relation to the axle you've discussed.

Maybe I am not fully understanding your explanation.

HB
Hi Brad,

Good questions, I guess in hindsight my comments were a bit confusing.

To begin with all of the artificial angles where measured on something close to perfectly level (The concrete slab which forms my garage floor.)

In each case the down side (or lower side) air springs were set at their minimum operating pressure of 30 PSI. I am certain the angles would be greater if air down to 0 PSI and allowed to sit on the bump stops, but I would never plan to operate this system in that way.

The high side was aired up to 80 PSI which is below the 100 PSI maximum operating pressure.

I limited the PSI to 80 in these angle measurement for two reasons. I wanted to have a certain degree of built in safety factor in any calculation I use these angle for. I also think I need to allow for pressure increases above 80 PSI that will be caused by compression while actually Jeep'n.

Your observations are right about the angles changing somewhat when not on level ground. But even on level ground there are some variables in that as one side is raised it does not go straight up X number of inches but rather travels in an arch around the low side pivot point.

What I attempted to explain was the angle differences between the side to side and front to back artificial angles.

Becuase the distance between the raised end and the pivot point is greatly different between side to side (let say 66 inches) and the wheelbase (approximately 95 inches) raising one side or raising the front or back by the same number of inches results in greatly different angles.

Take a stick 65 inches long and raise one end 10 inches.

This angle will be far greater then taking a stick 95 inches long and raising one end the same 10 inches.

Thanks for reminding me that I need to be more complete when writing things like this, particularly in this regard on what air PSI I used when taking the angle measurement and my logic in what I used.

Have a great day my friend.

Frank


PS: I also need to write a few warnings and hopefully create a better understanding of what happens (to roll over angles) when lifting and lowering each side.

Briefly, it is always safe and beneficial to LOWER the high side, BUT it is NOT Always Safe or Beneficial (to roll over angles) to Raise the Low Side.

Hopefully I will be able to explain the geometry and logic of this shortly in a clear way.
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Old 11-01-2002, 08:46 AM
mrblaine mrblaine is offline
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If you do indeed need to enlarge the holes in the ends of the swaybar, I have also found that a solid carbide multi-flute countersink will zip right through there in a few seconds.

I have one that is 1/2" that we used on Robert's after we burned up a brand new cobalt bit. The hardest part is pinning the bar in place so it doesn't rotate on you as you are drilling it.
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Old 11-01-2002, 01:01 PM
MNClimber MNClimber is offline
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Hey guys, my first post over here...

Anyways, if you wanna see some recent pics of ORO's Jeeps on some stuff here in MN you can check them out here:

http://www.mn-jeep.com/images/gallery/gilbert-10-05-02/

They were taken at a new ORV Park in Northern Minnesota.

Frank, great write-up like always!!

Mike
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Old 11-01-2002, 02:17 PM
Daless2 Daless2 is offline
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Hi Mike,

First off welcome to the board. If you haven't already done so please take a few minutes and put a post up on the "Introduce Yourself" Forum and tell us a bit about yourself.

Thanks for posting the link of the pictures. They are much better then what I was able to capture this past weekend.



Hey Blaine,

Check out MNClimber's Location! I knew they had named a town after you but I couldn't remember what state it was in!


Brad,

Thanks for the heads up on how hard that rear sway bar is. I am planning to go the same route you did. Finally after stumbling around the Grainger site I was able to find the rod end heim's today. Doesn't look like they have the grade 8 all thread so I will have to keep looking for that.

As it sits right now my rear links have to be at least 3 inches or more too short. I'll take your approach when my parts arrive, make them long and then trim back from there.

Frank
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Old 11-01-2002, 04:36 PM
Hellbender Hellbender is offline
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Frank,

http://www.mcmaster.com/

has a better selection and will have all the parts you need. I always get SS nylock nuts for all that stuff, too

HTH & have fun,

Brad

Edit: I told you wrong on the SS bodied ends, I did it so long ago. I used these ends..... Part # 60745K86 page # 1017 Also note the FINE thread used on everything.
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Old 11-01-2002, 06:59 PM
Daless2 Daless2 is offline
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Thanks Brad,

There is nothing like PART # 's to help out.

I'll take a look at the online McMaster-Carr catalog tonight.

By the way, I have no idea if I could strap one corner and air up diagonal corners. If I get the time I will check this out this weekend. Might be fun if nothing else.

Once again thanks for the part number from Mc-C.

Frank
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