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  #1  
Old 02-09-2004, 02:18 PM
mrblaine mrblaine is offline
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Lessons learned

I've been waiting for a report of our trail run and haven't seen anything special yet, so here goes.

Things I learned this past weekend.

If you brag about how capably you can follow bigger rigs, the rock gods will not smile at you in the slightest.

If the line looks like it will cause you to roll, it probably will.

If you feel yourself rolling and gas it, don't quit until you are absolutely certain that you are nearly level again. This is clearly a case where hesitation of any sort is not in your best interest.

If you have spare parts you carry in your rig, make absolutely certain they fit, will work, and you are capable of installing them.

If you leave the house with bent parts, go somewhere else to play.

Any fool that ever again tries to convince me that tubular is stronger than solid shall be doomed to an existence of only owning tubular tie-rods and drag links, preferably stock.

If you own a D-35 and attempt to bring it on a run, I will not play with you. I don't care if you had your rig air lifted in from the east coast and going on this run is your dying wish.

Anyone who posts a public run and does not specifically exclude D-35's from it will assume all responsibility for getting the D-35 equipped rig off of the trail so the rest of us can go eat.

If, in some horrible moment of weakness and stupidity I allow a D-35 on a run, I will assume all responsibility for getting it off of the trail so you all can go eat.


I build neat stuff. My portable modified ready to go welder in a box is probably one the the best things I have ever built. It performed flawlessly, the speed control in the handle is great, the penetration and ease of use are simply unsurpassed by any other trail welding method I have ever seen in use. I wouldn't trade two brandy new versions of anyone's underhood on board welder for it.

Flux core mig wire rocks. I was welding in a stiff breeze and the arc didn't even care.

You can fill 3/8's inch deep x 3/8's inch wide gaps with my neato welder and not even have to try very hard.

If you brag about how great you are and have 20 witnesses to the contrary, the onus is on you to post up the facts first.

The only reason Frank leaves Kentucky is to watch me weld wrenches to rigs.

The only reason Brad leaves Missouri is to keep his trail repair ticket punched.

I will not trade any of my friends for anything on the face of this planet, wife excluded of course.
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  #2  
Old 02-09-2004, 02:28 PM
02_WHITE_TJ_X 02_WHITE_TJ_X is offline
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Re: Lessons learned

Quote:
Originally posted by mrblaine
I've been waiting for a report of our trail run and haven't seen anything special yet, so here goes.
A trail report without pictures is useless
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  #3  
Old 02-09-2004, 02:34 PM
TObject TObject is offline
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Re: Re: Lessons learned

Quote:
Originally posted by 02_WHITE_TJ_X
A trail report without pictures is useless
I am done writing trail reports.
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  #4  
Old 02-09-2004, 02:35 PM
Paradiddle Paradiddle is offline
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Re: Re: Lessons learned

Quote:
Originally posted by 02_WHITE_TJ_X
A trail report without pictures is useless
Where is my puppy?
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  #5  
Old 02-09-2004, 02:54 PM
Wind_Danzer Wind_Danzer is offline
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Blaine,

Tell us how you really feel.

I have a feeling your new friend isn't going to be posting much.
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So face forward with arms wide open and mind reeling. Your future has arrived... are you ready to go?
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  #6  
Old 02-09-2004, 03:03 PM
Paradiddle Paradiddle is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wind_Danzer
Blaine,

Tell us how you really feel.

I have a feeling your new friend isn't going to be posting much.
IMO - people really need to make sure they are prepared and aware of how their actions affect the group.

I realize this guy was new to us, but he was warned, twice, about making sure his equipment was up to snuff. It wasn't. Frankly, it wasn't even close. Many of us have spent a lot of our money and/or time making sure our equipment is ready. You must be cognitive of the group and respect your wheeling partners enough to prepare.

I know he didn't do it on purpose. He seems like a nice person. People have bad days and bad things happen out there (ask me how I know). He did say he felt awful about the whole thing.

None of that changes the fact that instead of spending time with two people that flew a couple thousand miles to see Blaine, he spent time fixing someone else's Jeep, and did so without complaint or snivel.

There were conversations and meetings, that had been planned, that were not completed because of this.

Jeff
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  #7  
Old 02-09-2004, 03:05 PM
Jeff Weston Jeff Weston is offline
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For those of us who were dying to go but were housebound by bathroom remodeling and was hating life for it, please post a mini-trail report. It's pretty easy to tell from Blaine's lessons learned that someone broke a D35 (imagine that) and the group was hating it. Also, Jeff rolled somehow. Who blew up the D35 and how (I didn't think anybody even had one) and how did the rollover occur?

Details, please!
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  #8  
Old 02-09-2004, 03:11 PM
Wind_Danzer Wind_Danzer is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Paradiddle
IMO - people really need to make sure they are prepared and aware of how their actions affect the group.

I realize this guy was new to us, but he was warned, twice, about making sure his equipment was up to snuff. It wasn't. Frankly, it wasn't even close. Many of us have spent a lot of our money and/or time making sure our equipment is ready. You must be cognitive of the group and respect your wheeling partners enough to prepare.

I know he didn't do it on purpose. He seems like a nice person. People have bad days and bad things happen out there (ask me how I know). He did say he felt awful about the whole thing.

None of that changes the fact that instead of spending time with two people that flew a couple thousand miles to see Blaine, he spent time fixing someone else's Jeep, and did so without complaint or snivel.

There were conversations and meetings, that had been planned, that were not completed because of this.

Jeff
I understand that. I wasn't there and it stinks things didn't go as planned. I know what it takes to ride out there and would always take what is told to heart. I probably will never get out there with my rig ever myself because I know just what it takes but at least I keep an open ear to it all.

Hopefully my above scarsam post isn't taken the wrong way, I didn't realize just how much it messed everything that was planned up.

BTW, glad you made it out ok Jeff.
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So face forward with arms wide open and mind reeling. Your future has arrived... are you ready to go?
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  #9  
Old 02-09-2004, 03:13 PM
blkTJ blkTJ is offline
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Well said Blaine.
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  #10  
Old 02-09-2004, 03:23 PM
Paradiddle Paradiddle is offline
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Mini trail report:

Friday - Outer Limits
Blaine and Kat
Sergey and Brad
Me and Frank
Chris L
Scott Hill
Cody and his dog Willy

Had a great time, sunny but cool, not too windy on that trail. No breakage.

Saturday - Jackhammer (first waterfall only)
Blaine and Kat
Segey and Brad
Me and Frank
Chris L and Brian
Scott and Shalom
Cody and William and his dog Willy
Larry (unclegreaser) - YJ with a D35

I flopped coming off the first waterfall. I didn't give it enough gas for long enough and didn't steer into it enough. $hit happens. Damage was minimal and both Frank and I were okay. It happened very slow. You can lose a LOT of tranny fluid in a hurry when the dipstick pops out. I dented the fender pretty good, broke a door suround, and bent the upper factory roll bar tube that connects from the main hoop to the windshield.

Everyone else made it up the waterfall without incident.

The group decided to go run another trail - Clawhammer

On the last waterfall/ledge Larry's Jeep seemed to explode. First the already bent draglink broke. Blaine and Brad welded that up. As soon as he moved after that the rear axle broke, the front axle broke, and the knuckle blew off the lower ball joint.

Front axle was repaired first. The rear axle took a long time due to the lunchbox locker present. Brad and Blaine did the lions share of the repares.

Several hours later, we were moving again. It turns out Larry's spare front axle had the wrong uni-bearing so the rotor froze on the caliper. Blaine and Brad spaced it out with some washers.

We got off the trail at dark and went to the rib joint.

Robert and Kendra were waiting at camp.

Ribs tasted great.

I lost a tire today driving to work as well - I had cut it pretty bad and it gave up on me a couple miles from work. Of course this sucked even more because I didn't have part of my factory jack after loaning it to Larry on the trail - I think it is in Chris's Jeep. I had to find a place to put my spare on for me - what a PITA.

All in all, I had a great time.

Jeff
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  #11  
Old 02-09-2004, 03:25 PM
mrblaine mrblaine is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jeff Weston
For those of us who were dying to go but were housebound by bathroom remodeling and was hating life for it, please post a mini-trail report. It's pretty easy to tell from Blaine's lessons learned that someone broke a D35 (imagine that) and the group was hating it. Also, Jeff rolled somehow. Who blew up the D35 and how (I didn't think anybody even had one) and how did the rollover occur?

Details, please!
Jeff started the day by rolling his rig at the top of the first fall on Jack. Slow motion flop that was righted in less than 20 minutes followed by a fairly nifty run back to camp to replace the 7 quarts of tranny fluid we had to clean up.

This event sort of placed most everyone's nerves on edge and a vote was taken to opt out of finishing Jack, take on a shorter run so that our previously arranged business could be tended to.

We decided on Claw and personally I was having a downright blast seeing just how smooth I could drive the trail.

About a hundred yards from the top, things went to hell in a handbasket. Larry snapped his draglink in two pieces at the pitman TRE. We spent about an hour and got it welded back together, braced and reinstalled.

At this point we decided to have Chris strap him while he drove under his own power to the top in order to keep the draglink alive. No sooner did we get moving then we noticed the right rear wasn't turning and heard a loud snap. We were then faced with replacing a rear c-clip axle and a right front that had also managed to blow the bottom balljoint out of the yoke.

Several hours of messing with a lockrite in the rear and having only an XJ disconnect outer complete with the wrong backspacing on the unit bearing and we had to spend another 45 minutes digging up washers to get the rotor free from the knuckle. Wrong replacement parts cost us precious daylight and we had to finish the hardest part of the trail in the dark. Cold, exhaustion, and hunger when combined with a difficult obstacle with no daylight is a near certain recipe for disaster. We are truly lucky the rest of the evening was incident free.
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  #12  
Old 02-09-2004, 03:33 PM
Robert J. Yates Robert J. Yates is offline
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I wasn't there for the run but I can say that dinner afterwards was quite enjoyable and it got late all to quickly.

Kendra and I had arrived on the lakebed at 4:30 to what I expected would be a group of happy campers but it was all quiet on the home front so we sat and waited. The sun was dipping and by 5ish, I knew there must be trouble and got on the CB. I managed to get ahold of Sergey who was waiting at the top of Claw and he promptly filled me in on the dilemma. The subsequent conversations while the group was on the way back to the lakebed were also mildly hilarious
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  #13  
Old 02-09-2004, 03:34 PM
Jeff Weston Jeff Weston is offline
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Wow! Thank goodness nobody was hurt. I know how the slow rollover can pop up on you before you know what hits ya'. If not for Blaine catching my front bumper I would've left my mark on Outer Limits.

Frankly, the fact that you guys were able to get the rigs back to camp after the 'explosion' is an accomplishment in itself. I still wish I could've made it. On the bright side, the floor is now tiled and I'm nearly done with the project. BTW Blaine, you were right. My 40 year old slab foundation just laughed at the conc nails when I tried to put down the carpet tack strip. Concrete anchors it is!
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  #14  
Old 02-09-2004, 04:37 PM
02_WHITE_TJ_X 02_WHITE_TJ_X is offline
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Re: Re: Re: Lessons learned

Quote:
Originally posted by Paradiddle
Where is my puppy?
I quess I'm not allowed to post pictures on this side of the fence. I have 3 that are spoken for. And four to go

I would come out but my rig Now has 31 MTR's and a D35 I sold my D44 housing to a member and my D44 complete axle to a member on the other board so I can't come and play right now according to Blaines list I'm not allowed and I understand the D35 totally. I'll come out with the Sammy on toy axles once thats finished.
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  #15  
Old 02-09-2004, 05:44 PM
Stu Olson Stu Olson is offline
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Sorry to hear of the carnage. As Jeff said, glad no one was injured in the roll over.

Blaine, at the nuclear plant, we do a LOT of lessons learned debriefs after refueling outages, near miss incidents, etc. A lot of good information can be gleaned from the sessions. I hope everyone can benefit from your debrief.
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  #16  
Old 02-09-2004, 05:50 PM
mrblaine mrblaine is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Stu Olson
I hope everyone can benefit from your debrief.
At this point Stu, that wasn't the issue, the problem was I already knew the lesson and it had been so long since we had let our guard down that we got bit again. In fact, our lessons had been learned so well that it has been over 2 years since Brad and I had to dig a busted 35 equipped rig off the trail. That one would not have been so bad were it not for the trail leader needing to have his steering box welded back together.
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  #17  
Old 02-09-2004, 05:57 PM
Stu Olson Stu Olson is offline
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Blaine, I believe I do understand the issue. So I'll repeat my comment again, with a slightly different emphasis this time...

I hope everyone can benefit from your debrief.
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  #18  
Old 02-09-2004, 06:01 PM
Daless2 Daless2 is offline
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Re: Lessons learned

Quote:
Originally posted by mrblaine


The only reason Frank leaves Kentucky is to watch me weld wrenches to rigs.

Well Blaine, this was a true statement until this trip.

Now I have another reason;

"Porkfish!"


Thanks you my friend, for everything.

Frank
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  #19  
Old 02-09-2004, 06:12 PM
Chris L Chris L is offline
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Sorry I missed dinner with you guys, but after that run I was just too damn tired and had commitiments early sunday morning.

Here is a link to the all the photos:

http://www.fototime.com/inv/F0BD1A32F2A2728
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  #20  
Old 02-09-2004, 06:41 PM
TommyJeep TommyJeep is offline
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Sorry for the bummer day for you guys. I had a similar trip a few months ago on my 33rd birthday. I had learned the D35 lesson before but let my guard down for a trip with a friend up Doran Canyon. Got right into the hole and he bent a drag link, busted a rear D35 axle and blew the front u-joints and axle shafts. Spent my precious birthday limping what was left back to camp.

After we saw you guys and you had righted the TJ I was hoping you had your token "bad luck" already. Guess the day was just beginning for ya.
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  #21  
Old 02-09-2004, 06:46 PM
Paradiddle Paradiddle is offline
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Good pictures Chris - you got the flop right after it happened - the attenea is still moving!

Jeff

Here's one of Kat's for you Jeff. There is something not quite with someone who smiles this much after flopping.

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  #22  
Old 02-09-2004, 07:41 PM
JeepKat JeepKat is offline
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Post Re: Re: Re: Lessons learned

Quote:
Originally posted by TObject
I am done writing trail reports.
These pictures are pretty funny

Sergey when Blaine is watching


Sergey when Blaine is not watching
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  #23  
Old 02-09-2004, 08:22 PM
Stu Olson Stu Olson is offline
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I always knew Sergey was a trouble maker.
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  #24  
Old 02-09-2004, 08:45 PM
Paradiddle Paradiddle is offline
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Sergey chasing Brad off the trail



Jeff
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  #25  
Old 02-10-2004, 09:52 AM
pcoplin pcoplin is offline
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Brad and Blaine did most of the repairs? On both axles? Where was Larry? I believe if you are the unfortunate one to break, you should be down there in the middle of the fix-it party.

Glad everybody got out withough further incident. I do enjoy your pictures. I plan on heading down there next spring, after my 9 inch is built. Looks like fun!
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Old 02-10-2004, 10:02 AM
speaceman speaceman is offline
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I'd just like to say it was great to see everyone again. It's been awhile since I've got to hang out with the usual suspects and it was nice. It was also very nice to finally meet both Brad and Frank.

Things I was reminded of this weekend were:

It sucks to be the odd man out and dependent on the help of strangers (this happened to me once awhile back) and I'm reminded that I don't personally want to be in that position if I can help it.

The gang of usual suspects is a pretty cool group of people to hang out with wheeling, and the sense of teamwork is pretty amazing, IMO.

I was reminded, after watching Jeff's flop, that I'm glad I decommisioned the ZJ. A flop, in my ZJ would pretty much mean it was no longer a DD, which I couldn't afford right now, where as Jeff's TJ came out fairly unscathed. (Yes, he may have been lucky, but there is no lucky in a ZJ, you just move on to screwed when you roll).

Things I learned:

Lunch box lockers aren't worth crap balanced against trail repairs. After seeing the effort it takes to get the c-clips out for a repair, it's not worth it, and I'd never own one. I'd go open over having a lunchbox locker, because at least then, I'd have a harder time getting myself into a position where I could break and truely be stranded due to the difficulty of a trail repair.

If you pull the hitch pin holding your tomken hitch tow hook to loan to someone, make sure you throw the hook in the back of your jeep. If you don't, you'll forget you loaned the pin, and drive all the way home with the hook sitting loose in the reciever. As a result, I learned that the hook can make it all the way from JV to the rib place, back to JV and then to L.A., with out falling out, but considering it was dangling off the lip as I pulled in the driveway, it probably isn't the safest thing to do.

Jeff has a spot on gay waiter impression (not that there's anything wrong with that).
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  #27  
Old 02-10-2004, 10:22 AM
mrblaine mrblaine is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by pcoplin
Brad and Blaine did most of the repairs? On both axles? Where was Larry? I believe if you are the unfortunate one to break, you should be down there in the middle of the fix-it party.

Glad everybody got out withough further incident. I do enjoy your pictures. I plan on heading down there next spring, after my 9 inch is built. Looks like fun!
Typically in a situation such as this, everyone does what they are best at. Since his rig was well below the rest of the group, it was better to let the owner dig through his tools since he is more familiar with what he has and where it is.

I also would not expect anyone other than myself to know how to set up my welder and use it. It's also a puzzle to get back in the bags.

Truly, there are no issues with who does the work when it needs to be done.
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  #28  
Old 02-10-2004, 10:24 AM
karstman karstman is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by speaceman

Lunch box lockers aren't worth crap balanced against trail repairs. After seeing the effort it takes to get the c-clips out for a repair, it's not worth it, and I'd never own one. I'd go open over having a lunchbox locker, because at least then, I'd have a harder time getting myself into a position where I could break and truely be stranded due to the difficulty of a trail repair.

My 44 lunchbox locker does not use c-clips.
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  #29  
Old 02-10-2004, 10:35 AM
mrblaine mrblaine is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by karstman
My 44 lunchbox locker does not use c-clips.
Would it make you feel better if he had qualified his response with the words-"C-Clip"?
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Old 02-10-2004, 11:12 AM
speaceman speaceman is offline
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Fine. C-clipped lunch box lockers aren't worth crap balanced against trail repairs.

I say it in all seriousness. It was an eye opener, not having any experience with c-clipped lunchbox lockers.

I've seen other axle repairs and have participated in axle build ups and I can honestly say that if it were me, stuck on a trail with that locker, i don't think I would have been able to get the c-clips out.

Having to spend close to an hour to work the 4 spring/pins out slowly, with a pocket knife, just to get the c-clips loose, is not my idea of the best set up for a trail repairs.

Brad is a very patient man, that's all I know. That's another thing I learned this weekend, I guess.
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