Is it the tires or the wheels?

[TJeeper]

I got the new Champion beadlocks balanced today, it didn't go so well. I reused my old 35" MTRs, which have about 40% tread left on them. On my last wheels, they balanced with less than 5oz. of weights, most under 3.

I was watching the guy balancing the tires, and it just wasn't working. He would do an initial spin, add the weights to the inner and outer side of the wheel, do one again, and the machine would call for more weights in the same area they were initially added. He added more, and it still wouldn't zero out. Most of the wheels ended up with a difference of 1oz. on both sides, and what seemed to be a large amount of weights on both sides- some up to 10oz. I took it for a test drive and I still have some major vibrations at 55-65mph.

I'm not naive enough to think my Jeep will be vibrationless with 35" tires, but I did expect the new wheels to work as well as the old ones. I talked to the tech about it, he said it is the tires that are out of balance, and the wheels are true. After telling him they balanced fine on my old wheels, he then tells me beadlocks are impossible to balance.

Any ideas? Am I wrong to believe these wheels should be balanced? I can tell you as they are right now, I can't drive my Jeep everyday on the highway, I need to find a solution.

[mrblaine]

Take the one that's the worst. Dismount the tire and have them spin just the rim to look for an off centered ring. If the ring is true, find a better balancer. If it can be spun, it can be balanced.

[TJeeper]

Mr. Blaine- what is your opinion on Equal? The only disadvantages I can figure out are no balancing at low speeds and the need to blow out the valve stem before airing down. The problem is I don't know anyone that has actually tried the product to know if it works.

I will trying getting a wheel spun to see if that is the problem.

Thanks-

[Robert J. Yates]

Hmmm,
I just went through a total teardown and rebuild on my Champions with new MTR's and at this point, I think I probably won't even bother to get them balanced.

While my beater set of MTR's that were on there always balanced out just fine, the improvement in the ride quality with the new tires is very noticable. I'll concur with Blaine on the possibility of a misaligned ring and also simply say that its very possible the tires are the problem. Compare your set to a brand new set and you'll see where I'm going with this - because if its not an off centered ring, your balance guy needs to spend a bit more time due to the chunked and worn condition of your tires.

[TJeeper]

I'm thinking it is the tires also. I can see getting one wheel with a misaligned ring, but not five. I don't think this guy had much experience with used off road tires and didn't want to spend the time to get it right.

[Iceman]

or try Centramatic wheel balancers

Even though I don't have bead locks, they balance my 35" MT/R's on smacked up steelies good (no weights on the wheels, just the balancers)

[Art Welch]

or the right amount of bb's. There is no way you should need to go this route with MTRs since goodyear seems to have the shape of a circle down pretty well but they do work. There was a debate a while back on this board about the how and why of this approach. Theoretical discussion aside I can confirm that a nice pile of bb's in a seemingly unbalanceable tire (38.5 SXs for example) results in a nice ride.

[TJeeper]

I pulled the worst one this morning, and took the wheel back to the shop to have them spin it. I did notice on the way there most of the vibration was gone, the Jeep was back to its normal slightly off balance vibration. They put it on the balancer, and showed me how the outside rim was wobbling. Not good. Maybe that is why the clamp was tweaked when I took it off.

I am going to take a look at the rest tonight. Hopefully I can do this with the wheels still on the Jeep, just spin them on the axle. Then tomorrow call Champion and see what they have to say about it.

[Robert J. Yates]

What do you mean by the clamp and what to you mean by tweaked? Are you talking about the lock ring?

[TJeeper]

Yes lock ring. When I took it off it was not flat but slightly bent.

[Robert J. Yates]

...as in conical?

[NAILER341]

when i switched from the steel wheels [which required a lot of weight to balance] to the champion beadlocks, they were much easier to balance, and KEPT their balance.
i'm betting on the tires.

[TJeeper]

As in when you put it flat on the ground, half of the lock ring is up in the air. I don't know if this is normal or not, as I only took one off.

I measured the wheel that I took off this morning, and found the width of the rim varies by up to 1/16" when I take four different measurements 90 degrees apart from one another. I guess this accounts for the wobble I saw on the outside rim when spinning it on the balancer.

I then took a tape measure and measured the rest of the wheels. I measured from the outside of the wheel (the face) to the part the lock ring clamps down on. This measurement is about 1.25". I took four, again 90 degrees apart. On three of the wheels, the variation was 1/32" or less, I assume that is as close as it gets. The fourth had a variation of 1/16".

I am about to call Champion and see what they have to say.

[TJeeper]

I gave them a call, they said 1/16" is out of their specifications, that the tolerance is 1/32" like I thought. They said send them back and and they will either turn them on a lathe or send out new ones.

I guess my Jeep is going to be grounded for a few more weeks.

[Robert J. Yates]

...at least they will take care of you. Champion is a good product - there are quite a few of us here in So Cal running their stuff to good success..

[Stu Olson]

Disgregarding any gool ol' boy pricing....what does Champion get for make a beadlocked wheel?

[TJeeper]

I picked Champion because of the comments of those on this board. He was very nice about it and said if it has their stamp on it, they will take care of it until it is right. I am not used to dealing with retailers in that manner, it certainly was a pleasant suprise.

Stu-

The wheels I purchased are their stock Baja wheels- they have their prices on the web. Mine were $240 a piece. Others can say what they paid to have their existing wheels beadlocked.

[TJeeper]

Something was nagging in the back of my mind all day yesterday- about how Champion would turn my wheels on a lathe if they weren't straight. I did measure the outside edge of the rim to the outside edge right? I took a straight edge and a ruler and remeasured them. The two wheels I had unmounted were dead on, if they were off it was less then 1/32" that I can measure. I then measured the outside of inner rim to the inside of the part that is welded on. I got a variation in width up to 1/16". Doh! That is what I saw wobbling on the balancer.

I remounted them and found another tire shop to balance them this morning. They didn't have any problems balancing them, one was zeroed out, the other was off by .25oz. Obviously the first shop wasn't very good.

The last thing that bothered me was why did the vibrations I had after balancing the first time go away after taking off the "bad" rim? I always loosen and retorque the lug nuts anytime I have someone else work on my Jeep. I did it when I took off the "bad" rim. I remember thinking it didn't look right when I was loosing the nuts, but it didn't register. Now it is obvious this shop didn't even bolt the wheels on correctly, I think some of the wheels weren't centered correctly on the studs. That would cause a fair amount of vibration.

So now all seems to be well and and I will be taking the family on a little scenic trip in the mountains this weekend.