WJ knuckle plan?

[02_WHITE_TJ_X]

How does this sound?

I have the Knuckles, Calipers and Rotors from a 99 WJ in my garage.

I am going to get the Trackbar Bar bracket, Knuckle Spacers, Swaybar extension links from one of the distributors of ORGS MFG.

Then the Tie Rod drag link I will get from Down East Off Road the one they use for there D30 high Steer. The reason I?m thinking of running this tie rod drag link setup in because it is an inverted T setup ?I think that?s what it?s called? it will make it easier to get the Drag link and the trackbar the same length and I can run the tie rod up on the top hole of the Knuckle. It looks like Down East is using a WJ knuckle in their D30 high steer so the tie rod should be the correct length.

I am going to drill the stock Rotors to 5x4.5. What is the best way to drill the rotors as far as setting up the pattern and getting it in the correct location?

I am going to use the stock hubs with superior shafts.

I am going to use 15-inch wheels with 4 inches of backspacing with 99 calipers and grind a little if needed.

This is the set up I?m planing on trying. Does it sound like it would work? The reason I?m trying to do something a little different then Mark and Blaine is that I like how the Down East kit has the Tie rod up higher. But the thing I don?t like about the Down East kit is that it doesn?t upgrade the brakes as much and I think I can do it for less money then what the kit costs.


Is there a better way then this or have I totally missed the boat with this plan?

Also I am looking for someone to weld the spacers to the knuckles the way Blaine does it. I am willing to pay someone and pay for shipping to do it. But I expect a good product in return. I am pretty sure I can weld the brackets and stuff because it is about the same thickness as all the other stuff I?ve welded. But the knuckles make me nervous.

[Paul Sinclair]

Are you using an export knuckle on the drivers side?
You are correct in that going to an inverted T steering link you could easily run equal (or near equal) length DL & TB, the problem is that the upper steering arms on WJ knuckles are not set-up to offer correct Ackerman. I tried it on mine & couldn't stand the way it drove with reverese Ackerman, not to mention the stress that it placed on the ball joints.
Paul

[02_WHITE_TJ_X]

Originally posted by Paul Sinclair
Are you using an export knuckle on the drivers side?
You are correct in that going to an inverted T steering link you could easily run equal (or near equal) length DL & TB, the problem is that the upper steering arms on WJ knuckles are not set-up to offer correct Ackerman. I tried it on mine & couldn't stand the way it drove with reverese Ackerman, not to mention the stress that it placed on the ball joints.
Paul

I'm using the regular WJ knucle. Thanks for the reply. Can you please explain about what your talking about. When I look at the knuckle that down east off road is using it looks just like the stock WJ knucle. Meaning that it has two places to connect the tie rod and the upper ones are pointed in on each side.

[Paul Sinclair]

A standard US WJ passenger side knuckle has 2 steering arms, 1 for the DL & 1 for the TR. A standard US WJ drivers side knuckle has 1 steering arm for the TR. They are setup to run cross over steering. DEOR uses an export drivers side knuckle with 2 steering arms, thus offering the option of running inverted T steering on top of the top steering arms (they do not use the bottom steering arms at all). Do both of your knuckles have upper & lower steering arms? I have an export drivers side knuckle, but I am not using the upper arm as I don't like the way my jeep drives with reverse Ackerman. This is due to the fact that the upper arms are "pointed in" as you noted. You will notice a huge decrease in your turning radius on & off road, & your front end will want to plow off road, which I think will lead to early ball joint failure.
Paul

[02_WHITE_TJ_X]

Originally posted by Paul Sinclair
A standard US WJ passenger side knuckle has 2 steering arms, 1 for the DL & 1 for the TR. A standard US WJ drivers side knuckle has 1 steering arm for the TR. They are setup to run cross over steering. DEOR uses an export drivers side knuckle with 2 steering arms, thus offering the option of running inverted T steering on top of the top steering arms (they do not use the bottom steering arms at all). Do both of your knuckles have upper & lower steering arms? I have an export drivers side knuckle, but I am not using the upper arm as I don't like the way my jeep drives with reverse Ackerman. This is due to the fact that the upper arms are "pointed in" as you noted. You will notice a huge decrease in your turning radius on & off road, & your front end will want to plow off road, which I think will lead to early ball joint failure.
Paul

Then why doesn't it effect the type of set up like Blaine runs with the draglink attached to the top arm that is pointed and the tie rod attached to the lower mount that is pointed staight? I understand what your saying but I just don't understand what is happening. The way I see it is that the top and bottom mounting point are going to move the same distace when turning left or right and the amout of distace that it travles is dictated by the movement of the tie rod and drag link because it is mounted to a fixed turning point "the ball joint" this one really has me confused.

[ChrisK]

Just as an FYI, I have the DEO setup and like it so far. Yes, my ackerman is a bit negative, but is it negative enough to really affect things? Who knows. Will I switch to the lower knuckle in the future? Maybe. I'm going to wait and see how it affects ball joint life and off road driving manners first. If I don't notice much, I will leave it the way it is. Time will tell. My Jeep is not a daily driver so the wear may be slower than others.
I love the clearance above the rocks it gives me (and I can pull the diff out without removing the tierod). So far, onroad manners are almost the same as with my previous stock setup. A little more tire scrub in tight turns is to be expected, but I can live with that.

Chris

[02_WHITE_TJ_X]

I think I don't have an understanding of reverse Ackerman can someone please explain it and what causes it?

[karstman]

http://www.rctek.com/handling/ackerm...principle.html

It deals with RC cars, but gives some good illustrations of Ackerman Steering principles.

[02_WHITE_TJ_X]

Originally posted by karstman
http://www.rctek.com/handling/ackerm...principle.html

It deals with RC cars, but gives some good illustrations of Ackerman Steering principles.

Thanks, Now I get it

[02_WHITE_TJ_X]

Originally posted by ChrisK
Just as an FYI, I have the DEO setup and like it so far. Yes, my ackerman is a bit negative, but is it negative enough to really affect things? Who knows. Will I switch to the lower knuckle in the future? Maybe. I'm going to wait and see how it affects ball joint life and off road driving manners first. If I don't notice much, I will leave it the way it is. Time will tell. My Jeep is not a daily driver so the wear may be slower than others.
I love the clearance above the rocks it gives me (and I can pull the diff out without removing the tierod). So far, onroad manners are almost the same as with my previous stock setup. A little more tire scrub in tight turns is to be expected, but I can live with that.

Chris

So with the DEO setup both knuckles are turned in a little correct just like the WJ setup? Or is it an export knucle like discribed above. Because it sounds like your DEO setup is not what Paul discribed above as far as having the export Knuckle.

[ChrisK]

Originally posted by 02_WHITE_TJ_X
So with the DEO setup both knuckles are turned in a little correct just like the WJ setup? Or is it an export knucle like discribed above. Because it sounds like your DEO setup is not what Paul discribed above as far as having the export Knuckle.

The DEO knuckles are remachined WJ knuckles. One is an american knuckle and the other is the import (right-hand drive) knuckle.

Here is the comparison:
American WJ
passenger knuckle has draglink arm and tierod arm
driver side has tierod arm only

Import WJ
passenger knuckle has tierod arm only
driver side has draglink arm and tierod arm

DEO setup
passenger knuckle has draglink arm and tierod arm (american knuckle)
driver side has draglink arm and tierod arm (import knuckle)
neither of the tierod arms are used, only the draglink arms

Here is my writeup on the install:
http://homepage.mac.com/rv6a/hi-steer.html

[02_WHITE_TJ_X]

Originally posted by ChrisK
The DEO knuckles are remachined WJ knuckles. One is an american knuckle and the other is the import (right-hand drive) knuckle.

Here is the comparison:
American WJ
passenger knuckle has draglink arm and tierod arm
driver side has tierod arm only

Import WJ
passenger knuckle has tierod arm only
driver side has draglink arm and tierod arm

DEO setup
passenger knuckle has draglink arm and tierod arm (american knuckle)
driver side has draglink arm and tierod arm (import knuckle)
neither of the tierod arms are used, only the draglink arms

Ok what the heck do I have? Mine both have a upper and lower arm. I'm confused again. I'll check it when I get home but that is what it looked like to me.

[John]

Chris this picture shows the tie rod being completely above the pumpkin, is that accurate? I'm looking to do something like this on my SOA YJ, and it would have to be that high to clear

[karstman]

Originally posted by 02_WHITE_TJ_X
I'm confused again.

That did not take long.



J/K

If both knuckles have both arms, you have an American passenger side knuckle and an Export driver side knuckle.

HTH

[02_WHITE_TJ_X]

Originally posted by karstman
That did not take long.



J/K

If both knuckles have both arms, you have an American passenger side knuckle and an Export driver side knuckle.

HTH

So if this is the case in 99 maybe they produced some WJ's with two, two arm knucles that will blow some away.

[karstman]

Originally posted by 02_WHITE_TJ_X
So if this is the case in 99 maybe they produced some WJ's with two, two arm knucles......

Not to my knowledge, but I very well may be wrong.

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by karstman
That did not take long.



J/K

If both knuckles have both arms, you have an American passenger side knuckle and an Export driver side knuckle.

HTH

Took me awhile to understand this, but both of them are passenger side knuckles.

[karstman]

Originally posted by mrblaine
Took me awhile to understand this, but both of them are passenger side knuckles.

Quite true.

[ChrisK]

Originally posted by mrblaine
Took me awhile to understand this, but both of them are passenger side knuckles.

By gum, you are correct.



Hadn't thought of that.

I ask for a redo.

Here is the comparison:
American WJ
right side knuckle has draglink arm and tierod arm
left side has tierod arm only

Import WJ
right side knuckle has tierod arm only
left side has draglink arm and tierod arm

DEO setup
right side knuckle has draglink arm and tierod arm (american knuckle)
left side has draglink arm and tierod arm (import knuckle)
neither of the tierod arms are used, only the draglink arms

[ChrisK]

Originally posted by John
Chris this picture shows the tie rod being completely above the pumpkin, is that accurate? I'm looking to do something like this on my SOA YJ, and it would have to be that high to clear

That is correct. It is above the pumpkin.

Chris

[02_WHITE_TJ_X]

Originally posted by mrblaine
Took me awhile to understand this, but both of them are passenger side knuckles.

Some people are always right. I'm glad I found this out before I had everything torn apart they came in two different boxs so I never looked at them together. I have the worst luck.
Anyone what to buy a Right WJ Knuckle?

[02_WHITE_TJ_X]

Where do I get a lift side Inport Knuckle?

[karstman]

Originally posted by 02_WHITE_TJ_X
Where do I get a lift side Inport Knuckle?

What you really want is a left side export knuckle. I don't know of any WJ's that were imported to the USA. Again, I could be wrong.



I looks to me that you have (2) right side USA knuckles there. Sorry I can't help on locating an export knuckle. Perhaps someone here knows a source other than DEO.

[02_WHITE_TJ_X]

Originally posted by karstman
What you really want is a left side export knuckle. I don't know of any WJ's that were imported to the USA. Again, I could be wrong.

Maybe I not ready for this Mod