Devils Canyon Question

[LOC4ROC]

I just heard that the BLM has closed the trail and posted off limit signs , I just wondered in anyone here has any additional information?

Thanks for any help,

Roger

[Robert J. Yates]

I also hear that they have recently closed a lot of land up by Stoddard Valley primarily in the Bell Mountain area that previously was open. The person I spoke to said they had BLM police up there all weekend threatening tickets for even entering the area.

Anyone hear anything on what the BLM might be up to? I suspect that since their ass has been hauled into court over Surprise Canyon that they are now pulling out the stops and playing hardball. Might be time to dial up the Blue Ribbon Coalition and see if our donations can be put to work.

[JeepGal]

They talked about this last night at the Adopt A Trail meeting.

Seems some greenie saw the pictures on the net/magazine of a group in the rocks. He felt in his personal opinion it was damaging the environment, and posted the sign without due process.

Its under review right now, and from what they said last night, is unlikely to stick. Sadly, the road is closed until then. Pretty much sucks.

As far as Suprise Canyon goes, its still being heard in court, and no decision has yet been made. i dont know alot about the detials, but I think its cool that they are trying to pull that old law out of the books that requires the road to be open to allow access private property. (for those of you that havent been following it, a bunch of property was purchased at the end of the road by OffRoad enthusiasts)

Tam

[LOC4ROC]

Thanks for the info, I also heard it from some friends that were at the AAT meeting.

When you say "some greenie" put up the sign without due process is that an official BLM or AZ State Park sign or some flake put up their own sign?

I assume "which I hate to do" some greenie alerted the authorities who posted the sign?

Roger

[John]

Originally posted by JeepGal
i dont know alot about the detials, but I think its cool that they are trying to pull that old law out of the books that requires the road to be open to allow access private property.

UHHHH

[TObject]

Originally posted by Robert J. Yates
Might be time to dial up the Blue Ribbon Coalition and see if our donations can be put to work.

I did not renew our Blue Ribbon Coalition membership for this year, primarily because they paid absolutely no attention to our requests. The only thing they did for us was publishing our letter in their magazine. For that, I am grateful, but that?s not enough.

If anyone wants to take initiative in reestablishing the BRC connection on behalf of JeepBBS, please let me know. I won?t be doing that myself due to time constrains.

Thank you.

[JeepGal]

Originally posted by LOC4ROC
Thanks for the info, I also heard it from some friends that were at the AAT meeting.

When you say "some greenie" put up the sign without due process is that an official BLM or AZ State Park sign or some flake put up their own sign?

I assume "which I hate to do" some greenie alerted the authorities who posted the sign?

Roger

Its a real sign, and all I know is what I heard last night. I dont know who actually placed the sign. If I find out more, Ill post up.

Tam

[JeepGal]

Surprise Canyon-

Road wars: County sues feds over desert preserve
Andrew Silva, Staff Writer
Article Launched: 01/17/2007 12:00:00 AM PST

The Mojave Desert has been the battleground in a long-running range war between conservationists and those who argue the public has been shut out of their own public lands.


The signature epic battle ended Oct. 31, 1994, when Congress narrowly passed the California Desert Protection Act.

The controversial law upgraded Death Valley and Joshua Tree national monuments to national parks and created a new national park unit, the Mojave National Preserve, covering 1.6 million acres, or most of the land between interstates 15 and 40 east of Barstow to the state line.

San Bernardino County has launched a new skirmish in the old fight, using an 1866 law to claim it owns most of the roads within Mojave National Preserve.

The county in October sued the U.S. Department of the Interior, seeking title to 14 roads within the preserve.

"It's to have a piece of paper (to prove) that the county has a right to use these roads," said Brad Mitzelfelt, who was just appointed the county supervisor representing the 1st District, which covers most of the county's sprawling desert.

"The county would like to have a guarantee that the network of roads across the preserve, that none could be arbitrarily closed or excessively restricted," he said.

In its response filed Tuesday, the federal government denies the county's claims and asks the court to dismiss the suit.

The suit relies on Revised Statute 2477, a component of the Mining Law of 1866 that permitted construction of roads across public lands to help spur settlement of the West.

It was repealed in 1976, but existing rights-of-way were grandfathered in.

It's also the law being used by a group of off-roaders who bought land in Panamint City, an abandoned mining town in Death Valley National Park.

That group is seeking to reopen Surprise Canyon to off-road vehicles to gain access to the ghost town.

Critics say the county suing the federal government to gain control of the roads is unnecessary and expensive.

But they also see a more sinister intent - that San Bernardino County is using the process to pry open lands that have been closed to traditional uses such as mining, grazing and off-roading.

"Utah and some counties have viewed R.S. 2477 not as a shield to protect public access, but as a sword to defeat protection of land and water," said Ted Zukoski, an attorney with Earthjustice.

The county a few years ago identified thousands of miles of trails and roads that could fall under R.S. 2477, said Jason Fried of the California Wilderness Coalition.

"What happens if they get these and decide they want to do another 14 roads?" he asked.

While environmentalists have fretted that counties have listed narrow foot trails and even stream beds as "roads," San Bernardino County is laying claim to well-established routes.

Among them are Halloran Springs Road, Cima Road, Kelbaker Road and Goffs Road.

The lawsuit alleges the county has had trouble maintaining the roads because of interference from the National Park Service.

In its response to the suit, the Department of Interior agrees that the Park Service has placed some restrictions on where the county can excavate fill material. The government also admits the Park Service has complained that county maintenance has been inadequate.

There is an effort under way to draft a formal agreement between the county and the Park Service on road maintenance in the preserve, although day-to- day operations have not been a major problem, officials said.

"Our operations staff has a good working relationship with the park staff," said Annesley Ignatius, assistant director for operations in the county's public works department.

Preserve Superintendent Dennis Schramm said there have been disagreements with the county over excavating fill material but was optimistic an agreement will be worked out.

"The county maintains the roads, and we'd like them to continue," he said.

Both sides agree that cooperation is better than litigation.

"There has never been an easy debate over a road," said Kristen Brengel of The Wilderness Society in Washington, D.C. "Is it that critical to gain control over the roads? These roads aren't going anywhere. Why is the county spending this money when there's no chance the National Park Service will shut them down?"

County attorneys working on the case said the suit hasn't been that expensive, and the county is obligated to protect its rights.

"The preferred way is sitting down with the other agency and working it out. That hasn't happened," Deputy County Counsel Charles Scolastico said.

Mitzelfelt said concerns that the county will try to plow through wilderness areas are mistaken.

"Really it's more an effort to preserve what we have, and to preserve the beneficial uses of land for which access by vehicle is essential," he said

[Robert J. Yates]

Originally posted by JeepGal
" These roads aren't going anywhere. Why is the county spending this money when there's no chance the National Park Service will shut them down?"

That probably qualifies as the biggest yea right statement of 2007

I also find the fact that the county is maintaining the roads but yet has no title. Probably a political decision in order to uphold their standing but really....the federal government is most certainly inthe position of having its cake and eating it too. What a crock of crap.

[Britain]

I'll step in on this one. I guess I'm the expert on Devils. The canyon was rediscovered in 2005. I found the canyon based on history. The 1889 survey shows this as a road. Theres lots of history in this canyon.

November 2005 I got photo match ups from the San Diego History Society. This pinned the start of the trail and the end.

Dec after checking twice with the BLM and checking the new WECO BLM trail in deed it is a open trail. The California Fish and Game show it as a Jeep trail and thats posted on the internet.

http://atlas.resources.ca.gov/atlas/app.asp

Ok Steve and I ran it starting in Jan 2006 through March. It got a lot of traffic after we posted the whereabouts. To much traffic.

November the closed signs popped up.

Heres the scoop. for all of you 4 wheelers the Weco plan closed tons of trails.

The Weco plan also shows no endangered Species in the CWB.

Heres the BLM admin notes. Read R21 and R22.

http://britain.connectnet.com/Photog...wecoadminl.pdf

Ok heres the trail closures

http://britain.connectnet.com/Photog...WECOroutes.pdf

There is another map which has the BLM trail numbers. Devils canyon is not closed! Now it is. And so is a ton of other stuff.

Heres some e-mail dealing with the BLM:

I received word from BLM El Centro yesterday in reference to the status of Devil's Canyon.


After the initial posturing, BLM acknowledged that the upper section is open as is the lower section. Their belief was the center section was impassable; therefore "closed" and requiring no further action.


They are now citing information contained on the club website as pointing out that resource damage is occurring; hence, the closed sign.


I challenged that they did not participate in due process of a cite specific NEPA analysis to close the route. Also, that while the initial document did not specifically close the center section, it cannot be closed without appropriate analysis.


Their counter was to look for another area where a similar "extreme" challenge can be created. My response was why should another area be found when this specific area has existing prior use? And, the positioning of the "closed" signs is important. For clarity, if the "closed" sign is posted at a point where it "closes" a portion of the designated open route, there is a technical procedure error that goes against BLM.


If someone has a GPS mark on the location of the "closed" sign, great. If not, please try to obtain one soon. Part of forcing further discussion of the issue hinged on pointing out that BLM needs to be careful about sign placement as it could bias their position.


The discussion ended with me agreeing to get all parties together to meet with BLM and discuss the issue.


So, please check calendars for two dates:


1 - We (recreation interested parties) need to meet prior to a meeting with BLM. I would propose that we get together after the South District CA4WDC meeting on January 20, 2007.


2 - I would like to have a couple of representatives attend a "to be scheduled" meeting with BLM to go over the issues. That meeting should happen in some time after Jan 29.

Jan 25-27 is the OHMVR Commission meeting in Sacramento. I expect El Centro BLM to have representative at that meeting as they have a number of grants. I want to have enough information to lobby for a position before we have a formal meeting.

-------------------------------------------------------
John Stewart
Director, Environmental Affairs
United Four Wheel Drive Associations, http://www.ufwda.org
Natural Resource Consultant
California Association of 4 Wheel Drive Clubs, http://www.cal4wheel.com
Recreation Access and Conservation Editor, http://www.4x4wire.com
MUIRNet - Multiple Use Information Resource Network Blog - http://www.muirnet.net


Oh John spent the superstion weekend east imperial county checking into the massive closed signs out there.

I'am also trying to pull in the Imperial county supervisors.

****ed? I'am!

[Britain]

Looks like they just closed Truckhaven down.


http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/s...1-19-2007.html

Heres what was in the SD paper today
[Copied from San Diego Union Tribune]

Off-road rally near Salton Sea canceled

Environmentalists sue on eve of two-day event

By Mike Lee
STAFF WRITER

January 20, 2007

The California Off-Road Vehicle Association yesterday canceled a major rally and fundraiser in the Imperial County desert after two environmental groups sued to stop the event scheduled for today and tomorrow.

Due to the late change in plans, hundreds of off-road enthusiasts still could show up at the site near the Salton Sea. Environmentalists also pledge to arrive with cameras to document any illegal activities.

The potentially explosive situation is the latest flash point in a long-running battle between the two groups over proper use of California's remote lands. It also highlights the lack of a management plan for a patchwork of the state's recently acquired parcels that have attracted off-roaders for years.
Off-roaders call the place ?Truckhaven.? Conservationists call it the ?Desert Cahuilla property.? It's next to the Anza-Borrego Desert State Park, which emphasizes resource protection, and Ocotillo Wells State Vehicular Recreation Area, a hot-spot for off-road enthusiasts.

?We would hope that nobody decides to turn this into an angry confrontation . . . because it won't help their cause as we work toward good solutions for this property,? said Roy Stearns, spokesman for the state Department of Parks and Recreation in Sacramento.

The Center for Biological Diversity and the Desert Protective Council filed their legal challenge yesterday in state superior court in Sacramento. It says the parks department has failed to conduct the proper environmental reviews before allowing off-road vehicle use at the site.

Conservationists asked a judge to stop the weekend rally, which appeared to be moving ahead despite some official opposition. Earlier in the week, the State Lands Commission, which owns parcels in the area adjacent to State Parks lands, warned the off-road group to stay off its property.

The off-road association responded to the threat of an injunction by calling off its activities. They were billed as a way to raise money for the ?daunting? legal bills the group was racking up in its public-access campaign.

?This is a very big victory for us, and we hope that we can now get State Parks to put in reasonable measures to protect these resources,? said Lisa Belenky, attorney for the Tucson-based Center for Biological Diversity.

The organization will press forward with its larger legal challenge even though the off-road association backed down for the weekend.

Numerous messages left with off-road leaders were not returned yesterday.

?Although this may feel like a loss, remember, we are in this for the long run,? said a cancellation notice posted on the organization's Web site late yesterday afternoon. ?We need to work in conjunction with State Parks so Truckhaven will remain open and available for (off-road vehicle) use in the future.?

Last year, the 11th annual Truckhaven Challenge drew about 400 vehicles for a weekend of off-roading on the ?steep and hairy? terrain. One of the most popular activities is called the Satellite Safari, in which participants use global positioning systems to find their own routes to predetermined spots.

Environmentalists were concerned that another such event would lead to widespread damage of the area's natural and historical resources. For instance, a large section of the Cahuilla lands is federally designated as critical habitat for Peninsular bighorn sheep.

Before the association rescinded its permit request, State Parks officials said they were prepared to give approval. Stearns said it was easier to protect sensitive sites and make sure that rules were followed during organized events. Otherwise, he said, the state risked a ?free-for-all.?

Late yesterday, that appeared to be a possibility.

?People have the right to go out and use (parkland) as individuals, but they no longer will have the right to hold an event,? Stearns said.

He said that it would take several months to draft a management proposal for the controversial parcels and that his agency's goal was to include resource protection and off-road vehicle use in the final plan.

[Britain]

A meeting is finally set up with the BLM on the Devils Canyon closure. With the Truckhaven fiasco this was pushed off a bit.

I'll post the meeting results at a later date

[Britain]

[John V]

"If someone has a GPS mark on the location of the "closed" sign, great. If not, please try to obtain one soon. Part of forcing further discussion of the issue hinged on pointing out that BLM needs to be careful about sign placement as it could bias their position."

Here you go, from today, within 50' of the sign placement at the bottom of the trail.

N32 42.306 W116 05.134

BTW is the top of the trail also posted?

We hiked from the bottom about 70% up the canyon -- it was very hard not to invite the Jeep.

Regards, John V.

BTW there are tire tracks on the trail that sure look newer than November.

[Britain]

Originally posted by John V
"If someone has a GPS mark on the location of the "closed" sign, great. If not, please try to obtain one soon. Part of forcing further discussion of the issue hinged on pointing out that BLM needs to be careful about sign placement as it could bias their position."

Here you go, from today, within 50' of the sign placement at the bottom of the trail.

N32 42.306 W116 05.134

BTW is the top of the trail also posted?

We hiked from the bottom about 70% up the canyon -- it was very hard not to invite the Jeep.

Regards, John V.

BTW there are tire tracks on the trail that sure look newer than November.

Thanks John we have the GPS stuff. Yes there are signs at the top one which even states endangered species closed. The WECO study shows no endangered species. Even so Erik carried the last one out on his leg.

Yes some people are still running the canyon.

We are working on getting this opened back up. The BLM has postured to many different reasons why its closed the latest was they didnt think the center section could be ran.. ran?? jeeze they lost that one! Put that in front of anyone on this board and they'll prove that wong..we did.

Lets see how the meeting goes.

[John V]

Well, good on ya' for working to open the trail and now to re-open it.

If anyone gets up there again soon, "hiking" of course, please take a shovel.

At the base of the "impassable section" someone left about a gallon of hypoid oil in the sand -- not nice -- greenie/BLM amo.

We did what we could with our hands but it still is a big mess and stinky too.

Regards, John V.

[Britain]

Yea stuff leaks out. Things break and it get worse. This trail may need to be adopted to be reopened. I know the first public run people were stuffing trash in the rigs and hauling it out. Its not all bad. The illegals leave trash everywhere.

It is a really cool area to spend the day.

We'll see

If you hike in it there are some ruins....but not in the canyon....

[John V]

Yes, it was a great day even tho we hiked.

Speaking of trash, there is a nice 6' long pick-up truck bed liner just under the freeway bridge. It looks to be in great condition (floated down from above) -- possibly it has been there a while?

I have pictures if anyone is interested.

Regards, John V.

[Britain]

On the right side of the canyon facing south?

Actually the first water fall back about 100ft is historical. We have a picture of a Cadillac 1900 vintage with a bent tire. Its next to the big rock, we line up our jeeps 100 years later in the same spot really cool...

Cads where actualy busses back then. First west coast east coast race went through the canyon around 1910

A movie was filmed in it with Cary Cooper around 1930 The "Winning of Barbara Worth"

Notes from Earlier travelers was dont get caught in it when it rains.

In the days of WWII the campo regiment of mounted soldiers all black went through the canyon. They patroled the border at that time...there logs was it was so narrow horses had a hard time going through it.

Yea lots of history and thats not all of the history........

[John V]

Yes, on the Right side going up hill (South, South West?) Just North of the first bridge.

We did haul out a Red Warn winch hook safety strap and some bungi cords

I sent ya' a PM.

John V.

[Britain]

Jeese I lost my red saftey strap in thar a while ago...

Did run the whole canyon with a metal detector..nada nothing

found some real skinny engine belts though

ruins are pretty hid away.

[LOC4ROC]

Thanks for the updates, lets hope it gets re-opened soon and Truckhaven dosn't close.

[Britain]

We spent 2 hours hashing out closures. Reps from TDS and San Diego 4 wheel along with Geared for Fun and others were attending.

Topic was the Closure of Devils. It does appear that no one at the BLM is up on the WECO Study. Everyone is new seems to be a turn over of personal in the BLM at least here in El Centro.

They offered special permits to run the canyon, that is if you can afford the insurance so that the BLM is protected. No guarantee you will get one. 1 mil in insurance required. Ya right. Good for 5 years pre planned runs only... na....

Now sheep being disturbed , historical artifacts ( sign on rock dated 1911) these may be destroyed. Ya get yo tires on that rock, its way off the path. Sheep? Not the only place they run around at.

They even had a poster on devils with ol cars running in it! Go figure thats some double standard.

We presented some outs , adopt a trail. They didnt have a clue what that was about either. We provided info to SB trails. What if someone rolls the BLM said we could be sued...more info was give on other trails and other states and working with the BLM in those states. Heard of Black Diamond trails??

Whats happening is going to affect all trails sooner or later.

Stay tuned.

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by Britain
We spent 2 hours hashing out closures. Reps from TDS and San Diego 4 wheel along with Geared for Fun and others were attending.

Topic was the Closure of Devils. It does appear that no one at the BLM is up on the WECO Study. Everyone is new seems to be a turn over of personal in the BLM at least here in El Centro.

They offered special permits to run the canyon, that is if you can afford the insurance so that the BLM is protected. No guarantee you will get one. 1 mil in insurance required. Ya right. Good for 5 years pre planned runs only... na....

Now sheep being disturbed , historical artifacts ( sign on rock dated 1911) these may be destroyed. Ya get yo tires on that rock, its way off the path. Sheep? Not the only place they run around at.

They even had a poster on devils with ol cars running in it! Go figure thats some double standard.

We presented some outs , adopt a trail. They didnt have a clue what that was about either. We provided info to SB trails. What if someone rolls the BLM said we could be sued...more info was give on other trails and other states and working with the BLM in those states. Heard of Black Diamond trails??

Whats happening is going to affect all trails sooner or later.

Stay tuned.

Sounds like you got sandbagged. It's a common trick in accounting at big corporations. When the IRS sends notification of intent to audit, the corporation sends the newest member in the department to waste the time of the IRS agent by being unprepared.

There are far too many precedents of vehicles on public land under the BLM purview for them to even suggest the permit with insurance.

BTW- I think Black Diamond is a Forest Service rating system and not BLM.

[Britain]

perhaps your right. But we did get the CEO of Imperial County to Show up. Were leading to getting them to support this opening.

How is JV handled? Any one I can contact?