Vote Like TObject Guide to CA Propositions, Nov 2004

[Robert J. Yates]

All I needed was to look at who was behind bankrolling this initiative - 2 rich guys who have delinquent kids in jail. Too bad - you do the crime you do the time.

[TObject]

Originally posted by Robert J. Yates
you do the crime you do the time.

I am afraid this position is overly optimistic. Many of those who commit crimes do not get caught.

[Croaker]

Originally posted by TObject
I am afraid this position is overly optimistic. Many of those who commit crimes do not get caught.

So that justifies setting loose those who DO get caught?

Stick to day-trading, Sergey. You're undoubtedly better at that than political persuasion....

[Robert J. Yates]

Thats exactly the point Sergey - this is about punishment for when they do get caught.

[Stu Olson]

Originally posted by speaceman
Like I said, I've been living in LA practically all my life. My family has run apt buildings in various parts of the city, from the valley to southbay for over 20 years.

I have seen the least amount of crime that I can remember, since I was little, and the change has progressed steadily since the orginal passage of the 3 strikes law.

It is a rare day, while driving home (about 40 freeway miles) from the power plant into Phoenix, that I don't see little pickup trucks with CA license plates making there way down I-10 towards Phoenix. I wonder how many of them are from LA? (I think I figured out why the crime rate in my neighborhood has been constantly rising over the last decade. )

[John]

Originally posted by Stu Olson
It is a rare day, while driving home (about 40 freeway miles) from the power plant into Phoenix, that I don't see little pickup trucks with CA license plates making there way down I-10 towards Phoenix. I wonder how many of them are from LA? (I think I figured out why the crime rate in my neighborhood has been constantly rising over the last decade. )

California's number one export

[Robert J. Yates]

Originally posted by Jeff Weston
As for how to hold appointed judges accountable, I have no idea. It is my opinion that the entire system (judicial and prison) is both racist and economically biased.

Heh, haven't been put through the meat grinder in a while eh? I can say from my own experience both personal and with that of very close friends/relatives that race while in some cases is in the picture - the court system can be an equal opportunity oppressor. The best way to not get involved with it is to make sure you don't.

[speaceman]

Well you'll start to see them going the opposite direction if Prop 66 passes, if that's a consolation to you.

[TObject]

Originally posted by Robert J. Yates
Thats exactly the point Sergey - this is about punishment for when they do get caught.

I think those criminals that don't get caught also have to be included in the big picture on devising the law that would be influencing the reduction of the crime rates in the most positive way.

[Jeff Weston]

Originally posted by Robert J. Yates
Heh, haven't been put through the meat grinder in a while eh? I can say from my own experience both personal and with that of very close friends/relatives that race while in some cases is in the picture - the court system can be an equal opportunity oppressor. The best way to not get involved with it is to make sure you don't.

Somebody close to me is going through some $hit that has exposed me to some things I was happier being ignorant of (not 3 strikes related). I agree, the best way is to never put yourself in a position to get in trouble or even wrongly accused. That said, I don't envy law enforcement, prosecutors, judges or correction officers. As Bush would say, "it's hard work."

Anyway, I respect everybody's right to an opinion and congratulate those that professed theirs honorably and without ridicule like yours Robert, Shalom, Sergey and Chris. I also even appreciate the levity that Stu and John brought.

Well, I better check out of this thread before Blaine makes me join the BAND.

On the bright side, hopefully, we won't have to listen to this crap tomorrow and I'll stop getting calls at home from Arnie and Julia Louise Dreyfuss telling me how to vote. Springsteen can go back to his music and Puff Daddy won't have to threaten death to the youth for not voting.

[Robert J. Yates]

There will always be criminals - those that wish to act outside the established norms of society. For them, deterrent will work only so far and at the point in which it stops working, the only way to rid society of those preying on it is to lock them up. There is no elegant solution, no utopia. Never has been and never will be - thats simply human nature.

I suspect that once you have kids of your own Sergey, your views will change. I don't mean that as an insult either, its simply about a matter of perspective since once you have kids you quickly find out that there is only so much that you can do to protect them. Getting career criminals off the streets makes that job alot easier for a parent.

The story about the guy who got 25 years for stealing a slice of pizza - well that occurance was due to the fact that he stole it from some kids minding their own business. He intimidated them with the threat of physical violence. See ya turd is all I have to say about it.

[TObject]

Originally posted by Robert J. Yates
There is no elegant solution, no utopia. Never has been and never will be - thats simply human nature.

There is at least one best-case scenario to anything. If I am not mistaken, they call it "Nash equilibrium". After that guy where Russell Cove did not get the Oscar for in the movie "A Beautiful Mind".

I'll continue later. Got to go do some work now.

[cbassett]

Originally posted by TObject
I don't think this is correct. The media quotes cases <snip quoting from liberal media>

From "three strikes" law (667):

(2) The prosecuting attorney may move to dismiss or strike a prior felony conviction allegation in the furtherance of justice pursuant to Section 1385.

1385. (a) The judge or magistrate may, either of his or her own
motion or upon the application of the prosecuting attorney, and in
furtherance of justice, order an action to be dismissed. The reasons
for the dismissal must be set forth in an order entered upon the
minutes. No dismissal shall be made for any cause which would be
ground of demurrer to the accusatory pleading.

Originally posted by TObject
I think those criminals that don't get caught also have to be included in the big picture on devising the law that would be influencing the reduction of the crime rates in the most positive way.

You been talking lessons from Rumsfeld???
"As we know,
There are known knowns.
There are things we know we know.
We also know
There are known unknowns.
That is to say
We know there are some things
We do not know.
But there are also unknown unknowns,
The ones we don't know
We don't know."

Exactly how do you gather stats on an unknown?

As for influencing the reduction in crime, how about some stats...

http://www.threestrikes.org/tenyearstudy_pg2.html

[cbassett]

More food for thought on DAs and judges use of discretion in applying three strikes:

http://www.threestrikes.org/JEWalsh.pdf

They are using discretion, the law is working.

[TObject]

1A ? Yes 16.4% success
59 ? Yes 83.1% success
60 ? Yes 67.3% success
60A ? Yes 72.8% success
61 ? Yes 41.9% success
62 ? No 54.3% success
63 ? Yes 46.6% success
64 ? Yes 58.9% success
65 ? No 62.5% success
66 ? No 46.6% success
67 ? No 72.0% success
68 ? No 16.3% success
69 ? Yes 38.2% success
70 ? No 76.1% success
71 ? Yes 40.9% success
72 ? No 50.9% success

Average TObject success rate of the Nov 2004 California Propositions election: 52.8%

[Matt Pascoe]

Average TObject success rate of the Nov 2004 California Propositions election: 52.8%

You scored a 56% on this test. You failed miserably

Matt

[TObject]

Is that a movie quote?

At least I am in the majority.

These results are center weighted. Scoring 100% in this test would requite every voting Californian to cast their vote exactly like me.