DVD Copying.....The Legal Kind

[Allen]

I have a digital camcorder and a DVD recorder instead of a VCR for home movies and such.

I have transfered a copy of a film from the camera to two different sources of media via the stand alone DVD recorder, for eventual duplication with my PC.

I have a copy of my "movie" on a DVD-RAM disc, and a DVD-R disc that has been finalized. (So essentially it's now a DVD-V.)

I have taken both forms of media, and inserted them into my PC DVD drive to make copies with my DVD burner. Problem is, my PC isn't reading either form of media. It's telling me the "disc is blank".

The idea was this.....

Take home movies via the camera and transfer them to DVD via the recorder. Then make many copies quickly via the PC for friends and family.

It's not working.

Help?

Allen

PS-I'm using Nero 6 Ultra Edition and Sonic My DVD.

[mrblaine]

Why would anyone want to watch a movie with you in it?

[Paradiddle]

Um Allen. I'd bet my Jeep that if you purchased a legal copy of that software that you are entitled to tech support.

Tech support are the guys that know the software you are using more then a bunch of morons on JBBS.



Good luck.

Jeff

[Allen]

Originally posted by mrblaine
Why would anyone want to watch a movie with you in it?

You're copy is coming Fed Ex.....



Allen

[Allen]

Originally posted by Paradiddle
Um Allen. I'd bet my Jeep that if you purchased a legal copy of that software that you are entitled to tech support.

Tech support are the guys that know the software you are using more then a bunch of morons on JBBS.



Good luck.

Jeff

So uh, after dealing with those pain in the asses at tech support.....(I do ocassionally buy software from time to time ).....it turns out my DVD drive is too old to read the disc.

Popped it into the burner and it reads and plays.

I'm making copies right now.

Thanks to the bunch of morons on JBBS.....for suggesting tech support.



Allen

[Paradiddle]

Originally posted by Allen
making copies right now.

Thanks to the bunch of morons on JBBS.....for suggesting tech support.



Allen

As a card carrying JBBS Moron/Toadie/Sheep you are welcome!



When you get to burning your porn collection on DVD let me know - I'll give you my shipping address...

[Stu Olson]

Originally posted by Allen
I have a digital camcorder and a DVD recorder instead of a VCR for home movies and such.

Allen,
Your digital camcorder should have a IEEE-1394 port on it (also referred to as a FireWire port).

Assuming your PC has reasonable HD space and a 1.5Ghz or better processor, $80 (maybe less now) will get you a multi-port FireWire capture card for your PC. With that will come some fairly good capture and editing software.

I've been doing digital editing for several years and recently bought a new TDK dual-format DVD burner. Simply put, it makes for some very impressive "home movies".

[Jeff Weston]

I recently took a road trip from L.A. to Portland with the 3 kids. Fortunately, our "family truckster" has the rear entertainment entertainment system. Our TIVO has several of the kids favorite shows which, in the name of sanity, I knew I'd need to have with me.

I did it pretty much like Stu described. I copied the shows from the TIVO to my mini-DV camcorder and then transferred them to the computer via "firewire". Using DVDshrink along with Nero, I burned them with my 8X burner. One thing I did find out (after making a coaster), is that the DVD player in the car will only play DVD-Rs, not DVD+Rs.

It really isn't too difficult.

[Allen]

Originally posted by Stu Olson
Allen,
Your digital camcorder should have a IEEE-1394 port on it (also referred to as a FireWire port).

Assuming your PC has reasonable HD space and a 1.5Ghz or better processor, $80 (maybe less now) will get you a multi-port FireWire capture card for your PC. With that will come some fairly good capture and editing software.

I've been doing digital editing for several years and recently bought a new TDK dual-format DVD burner. Simply put, it makes for some very impressive "home movies".

Stu,

I'm familiar with FireWire.

Plenty of HDD space.....240GB

Almost 2.0 MHz on the CPU.

No FireWire card on my PC.....one on my DV cam though.

What I want is multiple copies of my DVD movies that everyone can watch on their DVD player or PC.

Am I better off capturing and burning through the PC than the way I'm doing it now?

Allen

[Allen]

I've got a bunch of DVD-Rs and my burner is a dual layer 8x.....

Allen

[Stu Olson]

Allen,
Your current process is working, no doubt about that.

If...and the keyword is "IF"....you wanted to edit the video, put in titles, add background audio, include still photos that would appear as a slideshow in the movie, etc., then capturing to the HD would be the way to go. I always edit as there is usually something in the video that needs to go away (the camera doesn't miss anything as you know).


Jeff,
The DVD+R format came along a couple of years after the DVD-R format was created. Although less frequent than just a couple of years ago, some companies still produce DVD players that do not support both formats.


For DVD compatibility info, as well as many other topics, I have found http://www.digitalfaq.com/media/dvdmedia.htm to be very helpful.

[LoneJeeper]

Originally posted by Stu Olson
] (the camera doesn't miss anything as you know).

hehehe...

.

If the camera has RCA outs, there are options for getting that signal to your PC as well... some are even a pretty cheap USB 2.0 device.

You are going to lose quality bringing it into a PC. Anytime you switch formats, regardless of their supposed quality control, you will lose data, and therefore quality. It's the nature of the beast... I'm a multimedia specialist for Mansfield University... i've seen it all.

You might not notice it, but then again you might.

A direct DVD to DVD copy is the best solution.

If you must edit, find something that can do with with the stuff ripped from DVD... there are a few software titles that come to mind.


The stuff Stu wants to get rid of would be embarrasing jeep situations we'd all love to see.

feel free to PM me with ?'s.

LoneJeeper

[Stu Olson]

Since I find this thread interesting, I'll poke a couple more questions to our resident media guy, LoneJeeper (I'm always looking to increase my knowledge on this stuff).

I'm doing my video recording using a Sony digital camcorder using their Digital-8 format.

I do not have a DVD recorder where I can directly convert the 1394 output of my camcorder to a DVD so I am forced to go first to my PC and then a burn on the DVD burner. I capture as DV Video, type 1, and save it in an AVI wrapper. At that point, I do what ever editing is needed before exporting the final timeline out to a file which is ultimately converted to MPEG2 and desposited on the DVD.

So my question is....How much am I losing by going to the PC first? I since the DVD recorder must down convert to an MPEG2 format prior to it recording the video onto the DVD, there is a HUGE loss in that process alone (unless I don't understand how the DVD recorder is processing the video stream into a DVD format.

In the past, I have also sent my edited AVI work back to the camcorder via the 1394 port for storage/future use. No frames are dropped during the process so have I always assumed that the next time I captured from the camcorder, I would still be working with the same generation (quality) of video as when I had save it back.

Am I wrong? As I never convert from or to the analog format (ie., using the RCA or S-video jacks on the digital camcorder), am I honestly loosing as much as you implied I am....enough that I can probably see it? (maybe I need my prescription checked)

Any comments are appreciated.


Edit: The reason behind this entire response was due to my understanding (or lack there of) of the digital camcorders digital bit stream. It is my understanding that the Type 1 DV bit stream that one gets from the digital camcorder is a standard dV stream with the audio and video interlaced together. Capturing with the Type 1 encoder, the raw DV interleaved bit stream is simply written into the AVI file. There is no data compression nor is there any splitting of the video and audio data. Hence, unless your CPU is not up to the task (ie., dropping frames), you have a pure digital copy.

[Stu Olson]

btt for LoneJeeper

[LoneJeeper]

Hey Stu,

while i've got your ear, I'd like to thank you personally for all the great write-ups and work you do for us online jeepers.

Your last post is pretty much spot on as far as digital editing goes.

As you transfer to your pc you are losing data due to the checksums and CRC's the PC uses to make sure the data it's getting is good. If you've ever tried to install something from a bad CD and got a CRC (cyclic redundancy check) you know that it can happen.

If you transfer alot, back and forth, due to those checks you'll likely lose data. Usually the purest displays will show them as an odd colored pixel, line or momentary total frame distortion.

A one-time transfer, edit, and burn is probably the best way to do it. If you edit in a bunch of sessions the software likely saves the "clips" as temp files which also get put through the same processes.

My recommendation is to continue as you have been. The benefits of editing on a PC far outweigh the losses of data that will go undetected 99.9999% of the time.

I would dedicate a specific HDD to the editing software, and if possible allocate memory to it too.

If you've got any further questions, lemme know!

LJ

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by LoneJeeper
I'm a multimedia specialist for Mansfield University... i've seen it all.



LoneJeeper

Know any thing about the digital lipstick cameras? Color, 440 lines of resolution, that kind of stuff?

I have need of an expert in that field that can aid in some on board cameras for recording and firing the video over the 'net via wireless modem.

Can it be done real time?

[LoneJeeper]

Originally posted by mrblaine
Know any thing about the digital lipstick cameras? Color, 440 lines of resolution, that kind of stuff?

I have need of an expert in that field that can aid in some on board cameras for recording and firing the video over the 'net via wireless modem.

Can it be done real time?

The lipstick cameras are pretty expensive, and you'll need a hefty server to encode, cache and stream. if you've got the cash it can be done. I'd stay away from Wi-Fi unless it's absolutely necessary. You're pretty much limited to 11mbps if want do go any distance with them. +/- 250 feet through walls and such.

It won't be "realtime" but it will be close, probably looking at a lag time of a few seconds to a minute.

Is this for home security?

LJ

[Stu Olson]

LJ,

Thanks for the additional info. While most likely not perfect, the DV is a big step up from the VHS analog capture days. As you suggested, I shall continue using the current process (until something better comes along).

In regards to my site, you are most welcome. Always glad to hear that folks are finding it helpful. Heck, I used it yesterday when I couldn't remember which direction the fan belt went I was replacing my water pump.

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by LoneJeeper
The lipstick cameras are pretty expensive, and you'll need a hefty server to encode, cache and stream. if you've got the cash it can be done. I'd stay away from Wi-Fi unless it's absolutely necessary. You're pretty much limited to 11mbps if want do go any distance with them. +/- 250 feet through walls and such.

It won't be "realtime" but it will be close, probably looking at a lag time of a few seconds to a minute.

Is this for home security?

LJ

No, it's for a vehicle that has 4 Panasonic ToughBooks and a server. I already own 25 of the cameras and 50 TFT monitors.

I also have an export wireless transmitter that's good for 1000' line of sight, but I would like to transmit from the vehicle to a remote location.

Is there another way? Maybe with a delay?

[LoneJeeper]

ok... so, money... not an issue.

those toughbooks are bad ass.

Sounds like a pretty cool project. reminds me of the DARPA projects i've seen.

You're skittering along the outer bounds of my knowledge here.... but i'll stab at it anyway...

Can the toughbooks cache and stream the data? Perhaps caching the incoming video from the cameras and setting up something like a "realplayer" server on one of the laptops to encode and send the streams to a local server that can, in turn, cache the stream to resend.

420 lines of resolution should result in a small enough data stream to minimalize the time delay.

There's probably a better way to do it, with pricey software.

There are wireless TV signal senders that convert RCA signal to wireless and then back to RCA... might be something to look at there.

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by LoneJeeper
ok... so, money... not an issue.

those toughbooks are bad ass.

Sounds like a pretty cool project. reminds me of the DARPA projects i've seen.

You're skittering along the outer bounds of my knowledge here.... but i'll stab at it anyway...

Can the toughbooks cache and stream the data? Perhaps caching the incoming video from the cameras and setting up something like a "realplayer" server on one of the laptops to encode and send the streams to a local server that can, in turn, cache the stream to resend.

420 lines of resolution should result in a small enough data stream to minimalize the time delay.

There's probably a better way to do it, with pricey software.

There are wireless TV signal senders that convert RCA signal to wireless and then back to RCA... might be something to look at there.

One of the ToughBooks is the one that has the flip and fold screen that re-orients the image when you turn it into a pen tablet. I thought that was neat.

I'll find the specs on the others, to me they are just magnesium boxes with electronics in them.

We do have a movie player on board with something like a terabyte or however you spell it, of memory. You can store some ongodly number of movies on it and pull them up at any time. Is that enough memory to cache?

I designed and built the box for the server. It fills every cubic inch of space behind a SuperDuty backseat that I converted to flip and fold for access to the components.

I am building a back-up camera system for the vehicle when it's in reverse and thought since I'm part way there, why not take it a step further?

I'm basically electronic stupid, so I have to ask lot's of dumb questions to try and get a sense of the difficulty involved in some of this stuff. I only have what I see around me to go by as potential stuff that can be done.

I mean, they have stuff that flies around that has a camera that they can view what's going on remotely, can't be that hard, right?

[LoneJeeper]

yeah, they do, but "they" are the army and have some insanely cool gadgets we can only drool over.

If you're just going to watch what the camera is capturing, real time, from camera to display.. I.E. nascar On-Board camera, that's a different story than displaying a video stream on the internet.

If you're going to just watch what's going on from some sort of control booth, check out http://www.wirelessvideocameras.com for the necessary senders and receivers...

I *think* that this is sorta what you're looking for...

If you'd like to PM me i'll give you my e-mail...

Lj

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by LoneJeeper
yeah, they do, but "they" are the army and have some insanely cool gadgets we can only drool over.

Some of us do more than drool.

Do a search on the Wulfsberg Flexcomm RT 5000, add another transceiver and a pair of AT-399B Antennas.

If you're just going to watch what the camera is capturing, real time, from camera to display.. I.E. nascar On-Board camera, that's a different story than displaying a video stream on the internet.

If you're going to just watch what's going on from some sort of control booth, check out http://www.wirelessvideocameras.com for the necessary senders and receivers...

I *think* that this is sorta what you're looking for...

If you'd like to PM me i'll give you my e-mail...

Lj

I don't know if we need to do more than watch. Could it be recorded on the receiving end?

I'll check out the Nascar stuff. Sounds promising. What the hell, what's one more whistle anyway with this many bells?

As an aside, I did a count on the accessory drive on the front of the motor today. 3 serpentine belts, 2-8 rib, 1 6-rib, and 16 assorted pulleys. Just astounding.

[LoneJeeper]

Yikes. I want pics of that engine bay.

I run a GPS and laptop wiht OBD2 info diplayed off an inverter... but that's about it. I've got a smattering of the parts i need for an OBA system and possibliy an on board welder if i get real ambitious.

You can certainly record stuff on the receiving end. And pretty much do whatever you'd like from there. It'll make the problem much simpler than streaming directly to the internet.

I'll do a little research on the whole setup after work.... and let you know what i think.

Lj

[LoneJeeper]

Originally posted by mrblaine

Do a search on the Wulfsberg Flexcomm RT 5000, add another transceiver and a pair of AT-399B Antennas.

Whoa, serious equipment there. I've never played with the UHF/VHF wireless TV stuff enough to talk about it at any length.... but I would assume you could run it through a VCR and digitize from there.

Good luck with this project....

BTW, Jerry Bransford mentioned that you've done the truck-style tailgate mod... is there a writeup here somewhere?

Lj

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by LoneJeeper
Whoa, serious equipment there. I've never played with the UHF/VHF wireless TV stuff enough to talk about it at any length.... but I would assume you could run it through a VCR and digitize from there.

Good luck with this project....

BTW, Jerry Bransford mentioned that you've done the truck-style tailgate mod... is there a writeup here somewhere?

Lj

No write-up, I suck at writing.

Here are some pics though.

[LoneJeeper]

Looks good.

so, hood hinges, an extra latch, and some sheet metal screws... how has it held up?

Lj

BTW, are these sensitive electronics we've been discussing going in an offroad vehicle?

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by LoneJeeper
Looks good.

so, hood hinges, an extra latch, and some sheet metal screws... how has it held up?

Lj

BTW, are these sensitive electronics we've been discussing going in an offroad vehicle?

It has held up fine.

The electronics are not going in an offroad vehicle, although it would make one hell of a S&R rig.