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Old 12-17-2001, 03:04 AM
Daless2 Daless2 is offline
The king of shotgun debate
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 1,303
On Board Fluids (OBF) System - Your Design Assistance Please!

On Board Fluids (OBF) System
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For the several weeks I have been thinking about a way to store and manage the use of fluids, which are typically packed in the back of our Jeeps prior to going off road.
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I have come up with this idea, be it “half baked”, that I want to share with you.
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I am actively soliciting your ideas and suggestions to complete this system design in as simple and as low a cost way as possible. Every effort should be made to use commonly available parts.
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Operational Design:
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The OBF System will store and distribute one or more types of Jeep fluids, under a small pressure from an airtight bumper or rocker guard.
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All fluids will be contained within some type of bladder to ensure no contamination of the fluids and to provide a double wall (bladder and bumper) for environmental safety.
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System should be adaptable to existing airtight bumpers or rocker guards with a minimum of effort. In other words, most people should be able to install this in their garage by themselves.
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System will allow fluids to be filled easily from the top (of the bumper) simply by unscrewing a fill plug and pouring the fluids in.
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Fluids will be extracted by connecting a small diameter hose to a ball valve on the top of the bumper and run to the component requiring the fluid. When valve is opened air pressure (in the bumper) will push (on the bladder) the fluid through the hose.
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An airtight bumper or rocker guard will be pressurized to no more then 30 PSI to ensure safety and provide for reasonable control of fluid flow from hose.
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All and any external hardware will exist only on the top of the bumper of rocker guard.
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Here is a drawing of my initial thoughts.



(Special thanks to Bryan – “OxJockey” on JU forum for hosting this drawing.)

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Expected Benefits:
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Fluids can be safely stored outside your Jeep, utilizing unused space inside bumpers or rocker guards and eliminating the need to anchor fluids down inside.
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Reclaim real estate used to store fluids inside your Jeep for other uses.
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Provide an enhance ability to install fluids by utilizing a pressure feed system.
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To some degree, Jeep Center of Gravity can be altered or tuned by storing fluids in front or rear bumpers.
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Things I Know:
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A typical 54-inch by 2x4 bumper has an internal capacity to store over 4 gallons of fluid.
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1 Quart of Redline MTL pressurized to 15PSI will flow through a 1/8-inch (i.d) hose in just under 30 seconds. 2 quarts at 15PSI will flow through the same hose in 66 seconds.
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Butyl rubber can be used to store petroleum products such as gear oil. (I assume it would also safely hold synthetics but I don’t know that.) Latex Synthetic Rubber can also be used.
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One Cubic Inch of volume can hold 0.63 ounces of gear oil. (0.63 is rounded from 0.629079).
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A Heavy Duty Bicycle tire inner tube (26x2.25) is made out of a butyl rubber compound and can hold approximately 205 ounces (6.4 quarts) of fluid.
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The same inner tube can be rolled along its length and squeezed through a 1-inch round hole drilled in a simulated bumper. Inner tube can then be positioned (expanded) by compressed air inside bumper.
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Things I don’t know:
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(LOTS! Pick a topic! Any topic!)
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What else can be used for a fluid bladder that is readily available and inexpensive? (Hot Water Bottle? Garden Tractor Inner Tube? Some readily available industrial bladder? Etc.) Ideas please???
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If inner tube is used, how to best attach the inner tube to a fitting on top of bumper so bladder could be filled with fluid and allow fluids to flow under pressure.
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I have a 1-inch transmission drain/fill plug (male thread) that I believe can be drilled in the center and tap with female thread to fit a ¼-inch ball valve to control outbound fluid flow.
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Bumper could be drilled and taped with 1-inch female thread to accept this plug. This plug (with valve attached) could be unscrewed to allow fluids to be poured in. One plug per installed bladder. Other ideas?
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What to use as a distribution hose when you want to use fluids? I was thinking one of those 15-foot coiled plastic air hoses. Other ideas?
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How would you pressurize the bumper?
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Bumper can easily be drilled and taped to accept a screw in air valve, but what could be used as a source of compressed air?
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Those with On Board Air systems have no problem.
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Those without maybe could pressurize prior to going on the trail.
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Perhaps a small jumper hose could be used from the bumper air fitting to a tire valve?
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Maybe a small CO2 canister like they use in Paint Ball guns?
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Any thoughts?
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A request for your assistance:
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I am putting this post out here because I believe there is potential to develop an On Board Fluids (OBF) System that may very well be of benefit to many Jeepers.
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What I am looking for is a collaborative effort to develop the best system that we can, and then put the entire idea and “how-to” out into the public domain for anyone to use as they see fit.
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Give it some thought folks. I believe the idea is sound; it’s my engineering that needs some help.
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If you are interested please feel free to post any and all of your suggestions.
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I believe that collectively we can develop the best OBF System possible.
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Please post your ideas here on this forum so that everyone can benefit from your comments, suggestions and thoughts.
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If you have a need to send a file or chat directly with me I can be reached at Email.ID@Worldet.Att.Net

Thanks in advance for you help on this,

Frank
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  #2  
Old 12-17-2001, 06:20 AM
Daless2 Daless2 is offline
The king of shotgun debate
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 1,303
Hi Folks,

I need to correct my statement on how much fluid volume will fit in a typical 2x4x54-inch bumper.

My formula is correct however when I typed this up my mind I was adding the capacity of both a front and rear bumper together.

My mental error, my apologies and my correction follows..

I will post the math here to overcome any confusion I created.

Each cubic inch of space will hold 0.63 ounces of fluid.

How many cubic inches are in "One" bumper?

Multiply Height x Width x Length = Cubic Inches.

4x2x54 = 432 cu. in.

How many ounces of fluid will fit in that space?

Cubic Inches x 0.63

432 x 0.63 = 272 ounces

How many quarts is that? (32 ounces per quart)

272 / 32 = 8.5 quarts

How many Gallons is that (4 quarts equal one gallon)

8.5 quarts / 4 = 2.126 gallons.

Of course these number to not take into consideration the thickness of the metal the bumper is made of. This will effect the inside dimensions.


Once again, my apologies for the mental error while typing this up. (Now you know why I asked for a collaborative effort!)

Frank
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  #3  
Old 12-17-2001, 09:04 AM
William William is offline
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,277
Frank,

I can ask my brother, who drives a fuel oil truck for a living about this.

As for my input, I have a few basic, minor things that I can say, but I'm by far, not the person to think of on these things.

One thing that needs to be addressed is expansion with heat. While a bumper is not really a near a heat source (save for the exhaust), some of these fluids would expand, both taking up more space, and also, increasing pressure on the release side.

As for bladders, I know that the stuff they make camel bags out of is pretty durable (I ran over one once) and can take a beating.

Your biggest probem would be attachement of the bladder to the bumper, and also how to get the bladder in.

William.
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