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  #1  
Old 08-15-2004, 10:00 AM
NAILER341 NAILER341 is offline
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Legal Advice

well, i am looking for a little bit of legal advice.
i have a neighbor that is completely white trash. a major tweaker/dealer, and there is a constant flow of traffic, people"sleeping" in the garage, consistant VERY late nights working in the garage with power tools, and grinders. one of the latest things is this bastards dad actually pulled his car up half way onto my yard. went across his driveway at an angle, across the sidewalk, and had both front tires in my front yard!
you might be thinking [dude, you're just being petty] but this **** is pushing me over the edge. they have been building in the garage an upper loft for some more tweakers to bed down... building this ALL NIGHT LONG!

now, i have asked nicely for them to act a bit more appropriately for the neighborhood... i have asked them to clean up the messes they leave strewn threw the driveway. [HUGE MESSES] i have asked nicely to stop the ****ing grinding at 1-3:00 am. i have asked nicely for this son-of-a-bitch to not go in the garage at 5:00 am every damn morning to wake up the straggeling tweakers. all to NO avail.

i want to resolve this the legal way, so...
i have made some calls to the police about the noise/dealing/traffic, etc... bear in mind this has been going on for years, and not getting better at all.
i made some calls to code enforcement about the garage sleeping, and loft being added into the garage.
i'm sure i am not the only one taken back by the garbage all over the driveway, so i'm sure there were others that have called about this.

oh.... lets not forget about this punk ass tweaking out on his harley. he will start this open piped jerry rigged harley all hours of the day and night just to rev it up and hear the pipes cracking.

anyway.... here is where things get interesting, and some lines in the sand have been crossed.
i happen to have a koi pond with some very expensive koi fish in it. there are 15 fish in there. if any of you know anything about koi fish, you get an idea what these fish might be worth. there are 7 of them that are over 2' long.
now, this sorry ass loser dumped some chemical into the koi pond from over the fence. it seems to be brake fluid or something.
what a low life piece of ****. this isnt just attacking me... this is the kids pets! [by the way, i have 3 adopted kids]

so, of course, i call the cops right away, and snap some pictures of the pond in its oil frothed state. [will post them soon]
now, the police say it is obvious to them where the oil came from, because i showed them a small line of it coming from over the wall, killing the plants. it seems he reached past the 1970 something motor home, and dumped it in the pond..
anyway, the cops said they could not do anything about it besides make a report, because no one saw him do it. he suggested i also file a report with SEACCA [animal control] for animal cruelty. i have made the call, but nothing yet on this.


NOW, here is where my legal questions come in. the fish have not yet died, but i will be surprised if they dont.. so i plan to go after him civily.
i want to hit this bastard with everything i can. this is where i would like suggestions.

ALSO? is there any legal, or civil action that can be taken on the "landlord" of a tennant that is doing all of these things? the land lord knows of all of these dealings, and insidences.
here is where things take another twist. the house is owned by the offender, but he put it in hid dads name... this makes the dad the "landlord" i figure if i go after the dad, he will put pressure on his loser son to straighten up his act.
so any angles for going after the landlord would be appreciated.

so, i plan to file a civil case on the neighbor for the stress he puts us under, poisoning the fish [if none die] killing the fish [if they die].... WHAT ELSE?


pics to come.




look HERE FOR THE REST OF THE PICS.
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  #2  
Old 08-15-2004, 10:24 AM
speaceman speaceman is offline
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[Edited for clarification]

I'd like to know two things:

1)How much money are you willing to spend.

2) Are you at all interested in having any level of civility left between you and them, after you are done with whatever process you have decided on trying to get them to change their actions.

(They will still be living next to you afterwards)
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  #3  
Old 08-15-2004, 10:31 AM
NAILER341 NAILER341 is offline
I showed Matt my twinkie and he like it.
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by speaceman
[Edited for clarification]

I'd like to know two things:

1)How much money are you willing to spend.

2) Are you at all interested in having any level of civility left between you and them, after you are done with whatever process you have decided on trying to get them to change their actions.

(They will still be living next to you afterwards)
i would like to spend as little as possible, and as far as civility goes... there hasnt been any of that for quite some time. i have been bending over and taking this stuff from him for long enough. time to go back at him a bit.
chances are, i will have to move... but for the time i'm still here, i will do what i can to make his life miserable, and empty his wallet.

the things he has done, and the level of disrespect this guy has put out has pushed me over the edge. no more mr. nice guy.
at this time, i am planning on small claims court.. i know that doesnt cost much.
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  #4  
Old 08-15-2004, 10:35 AM
NAILER341 NAILER341 is offline
I showed Matt my twinkie and he like it.
 
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as much as i hate the idea of having this prick "push" me out of my house... it might be the best way to keep my sanity? [what little i have]
you have to understand, this is not some ghetto neighborhood either.. just one sleaze bag on the block, and it happens to be my neighbor
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  #5  
Old 08-15-2004, 11:40 AM
TObject TObject is offline
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Move to San Diego. My mom is a real estate agent; she will help you to find a beautiful house (seriously, let me know).

In my opinion, San Diego is the Home Owner Associations heaven. So instead of you being on somebody's ass for grinding, they will be on your ass on anything that does not confirm to CCNR.
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  #6  
Old 08-15-2004, 12:33 PM
Stu Olson Stu Olson is offline
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IMO, you are screwed either way. In the case of Nailer's neighbor, the lack of CCNRs allows for the problem to exist.

Of course, with CCNRs, you often times can not do what I did yesteray....parked the TJ in my driveway and changed the water pump (not to mention the fact that I didn't use power tools).

The neighborhood I bought my house in , over 18 yeras ago, was at that time very nice. No home owner associations and no problems.

When demographics started shifting, most owners sold and moved into new developments. I am now surrounded with 7 income families (you know, the kind where all 7 people living in the house pool their income to make the mortage payment). The vast majority of them somehow believe I actually appreciate their ****ing music, their ****ing kids in my yard, and their junk ****ing cars parked all over the street.
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  #7  
Old 08-15-2004, 01:28 PM
robert-r robert-r is offline
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We went through something similar where we live in San Diego.
The first thing the neighborhood did was form a neighborhood watch group and held a meeting at which a policeman gave a bit of a talk to the group about what we could do.
The assholes that were ****ing everyone off were also invited.
It was interesting, because the policeman made us aware that if we all kept a journal of our complaints and frequently called the police to report noise, criminal behavior, etc we could establish a case where we could as a group or individually sue the owner of the house for damages.
This technique is slow, usually takes a year or more to set-up and frequently results in the owner of the house loosing it in a civil judgement.
Of course, the jerks we invited didn't care. We individually told them what was making us angry and they pretended that they were not a problem.
The owner of the house did care, but the cops raided the place a few weeks later.
The new renters are a pretty good this time.
Bob
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  #8  
Old 08-15-2004, 03:29 PM
DanB98TJ DanB98TJ is offline
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Most jurisdictions have noise ordinances, so start out by filing frequent complaints to the local LE agency. Keep your own log, but there will also be some kind of records kept by the agency.

If you have a particular officer assigned to your neighborhood ("beat" officer), pass any info on to him that you can. The type of activity, license plates on vehicles, hours the activity is heavier, etc. When the call load permits the officer will - or should - pay a little more attention to those problem areas.

Some agencies have narcotics task forces. If this guy is selling, and there is little doubt he is, they can try to make some buys and start building a case.

All of these things will take some time - unfortunately, there is little that you can legally do for a quick solution. About the best you can hope is that he will overdose on the meth he is probably cooking...or he blows himself up.

Stu - That pretty much describes my neihborhood. Most of the homes are clean and well maintained by decent people, but the family next to me is bunch of worthless slobs. Small kids get lost in the forest of weeds in their yard, all their garbage blows into my yard, and the @ssholes rake the crap from their constantly barking dogs into big piles and just leave them. What really surprises me is the guy is an officer with a local PD, and he leaves his marked unit parked in the yard of this dump. That really makes a good impression, especially since the department he works for is a high dollar community.

I need to buy about 50 acres, erect a 6-foot electric fence around the property, and build a house right in the middle.
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  #9  
Old 08-15-2004, 05:54 PM
NAILER341 NAILER341 is offline
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thanks for your responses on this suject.
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  #10  
Old 08-15-2004, 06:42 PM
speaceman speaceman is offline
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Well, if you want to spend as little as possible, then legal action (as far as lawyer or suing, or going to court) is not the way to go for you.

You best bet is to keep doing what you are doing, and filling as many complaints as possible with as many governmental agencies as will let you file complaints with them.

You may want to also go down to your city council (mayor?) and ask your concil members what rights the city gives you with regards to cleaning up problems like this. Complaing that the city isn't doing enough to deal with issues like this might help.

The most effective tool you have at your disposal is to sick the cops on them. They are dealing. A couple of angry phone calls about them dealing in the streets will help. Do you have neighbors you are friendly with? Perhaps you can get a bunch of people to call in these types of calls.

If I were you, I'd be calling the local police at least once a week to report drug releated problems. Going down to the station and asking to meet with the officers in charge of the drug unit may also helps.

(We've had to deal with gang issues and the only time anything ever got done about something, is if we made a meeting and made some sort of rapport with the person in charge of the gang units in our area)

Good luck.
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  #11  
Old 08-15-2004, 06:53 PM
robert-r robert-r is offline
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Don't forget your local planning/zoning/building permit department.
They can be hell on wheels when it comes to illegal construction.
Good luck.
Bob
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  #12  
Old 08-15-2004, 08:19 PM
Paradiddle Paradiddle is offline
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Shoot him and drag his body into your garage. Put an old screwdriver in his hand.

Self defense baby...

(I'm only half kidding)

That really sucks - neighbor problems are a major PITA.

By the way - I have CCRs but I put a new starter and power step on the motorhome, did the front brakes on the TJ, mounted my new MT/R, greased the jeep, and did an alignment.

Used some air tools as well!

Jeff
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  #13  
Old 08-16-2004, 05:37 AM
Hellbender Hellbender is offline
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IMO, the legal civil stuff would be a waste of time, what have they got to lose? "So sue me, what are you gonna get?"

Instead of RE-acting to this nonsense, go on the PRO-active side.

Buy 3 security cameras, put some poles up along your property border and mount the cameras in very plain sight of the punks.

The body heat tracking cams (that follow them around) would be the best, but any kind would work.

Point the cams at the offenders side and make a big deal out of the recorders, etc, etc.

Make the poles high enough so they can't easily be messed with.

Dopers love having thier pics taken.............

Obviously, if they are potentially violent, then a different strategy must be used. You usually have to put the fear of god in them to get anything accomplished, and most people are better off just to move, esp. if you have a family. (But you can have fun after you move )

HB
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  #14  
Old 08-16-2004, 07:17 AM
Stu Olson Stu Olson is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by DanB98TJ

Stu - That pretty much describes my neihborhood......

I need to buy about 50 acres, erect a 6-foot electric fence around the property, and build a house right in the middle.
Amen!
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  #15  
Old 08-16-2004, 08:24 AM
Jason L Williams Jason L Williams is offline
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Erik,
I would think that if enough of your neighbors complain, Lakewood's Abatement people would get involved. I don't know how long it takes to have a neighbor classified as a nuisance. But if enough complaints are logged, I would think someone would get involved. But I wouldn't give up on the city just yet.
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  #16  
Old 08-16-2004, 10:26 AM
Chris L Chris L is offline
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Sorry to hear about this Eric. Do you have a video camera? Maybe you could get some of the dealing on tape. I would also push hard on the city and inspectors about people living in the garage. Have they added any electrial or plumbing to it yet? call the city and tell them there is an illegal rental unit in the garage next door and they should come out for an inspection. If they see signs of someone living there, they should get fined. I would also try and record, tape, video, get license plate pics etc. Go into the police station personally and show them pics or what ever you have to. Your kids are too close to all this and are endangered espeacially if they are meth heads. Noise ordinance is usually10pm-7am. Just keep calling the cops and make it a nuicense for them.
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  #17  
Old 08-16-2004, 01:31 PM
Robert J. Yates Robert J. Yates is offline
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I find this rather interesting because I am the guy who gets the code compliance people and homeowners association people visiting me or writing letters on an all to frequent basis. Not that I am loud, violating any ordinances, have an unkept yard or dealing drugs. In fact, its just the opposite. My yard is very well kept, I do not work on my vehicles late or play loud music. What I do have is a neighbor who derives his pleasure from ****ing in my cherrios. He can't or won't mind his own business and thinks I need to be policed.

Now that being said, I have read all the rules in my CCR's and as a result of these constant visits and complaints (I call it harrassment), I now take everything I do to the limit just to **** him off. Take my trailer for instance, I used to leave it in my driveway until I could get it back to storage - the RV ordinance gives folks 72 hours in which to do that but that wasn't good enough for him. If I didn't have it gone in 1 day, I got a visit from whomever he could get to respond first. My response to that is that I now leave my trailer hooked up to my Suburban and I simply move it around on the street every couple of days for a week or so. Nothing he can do about it except get even more ****ed off. Too bad - he should have left me alone in the first place.

See what I am getting at - if those tweakers are anything like me your problem will not go away - it will just get bigger. MA is to get the cops to bust him for drugs or else move. Anything else will just make your life more miserable than it already is.
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  #18  
Old 08-16-2004, 02:57 PM
William William is offline
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I have two nieghbors who I both like who are at odds with eachother. I get along with both and hear both sides (a parking issue). What they are not doing is talking to each other about it.

I would walk myself over there and have a chat. And I would suck up my pride a little and not be too confrontational (difficult for me).

"Listen the noise past X hour sucks, can we do some thing about it?"

"The crowds coming and going.. they're not exactly the most assuring folks arround. Can you vouch thier OK?"

Initiate a conversation and do it on a basis where you are honestly attempting to listen and understand his perspective. If he sees that you're trying he might get things straitened up. Try to find some common ground to work from. Not to slam you, but you seem to be ready to nit pick anything that is wrong with the guy. He may suck as nieghbor, but try for a minute to be realistic. And if you're being as fair as possible and he's not gonna give in, then it's time to take things further.

If not, go with Hellbender's idea. But, I warn you, if they are tweakers, you've gotta have your ducks in a row. As a popular song says "Don't start no **** won't be no ****." They do take things hardcore sometimes. Fish are just a starting point.
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  #19  
Old 08-16-2004, 03:35 PM
NAILER341 NAILER341 is offline
I showed Matt my twinkie and he like it.
 
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thanks for your opinions.
as far as my being petty...
i have been putting up with this stuff from him for 7 years. i have been patient, and tollerant. i have, indeed spoken with him on a number of occasions about keeping the noise down, and keeping the traffic down for the benefit of my children. i have had these conversations on many occasions with him to no avail.it has just become a regular occurance for him and his "friends" to disrespect my wife and i.

i have just gotten to the point where i cant take it any more. i have since begun calling the building department to make official complaints about having people living in the garage, and making noise all night long.

if he were out there working reasonable hours in the garage, it would be one thing... but having to hear it at 3 in the morning... this is not ok.

i have asked nicely, and it didnt work.. now i am going after him with every legal avenue. the line has been crossed when the poison went into the pond.
those fish are pets, AND an investment. koi fish are very valuable. those ridiculous fish are worth more than my jeep. sad but true.

there have been steps taken at the city to make things right... lets see how it works out.
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Old 08-17-2004, 01:07 PM
William William is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by NAILER341
as far as my being petty...
(snip)
i have been putting up with this stuff from him for 7 years.
(snip)
it has just become a regular occurance for him and his "friends" to disrespect my wife and i.
(snip)

the line has been crossed when the poison went into the pond.
those fish are pets, AND an investment. koi fish are very valuable. those ridiculous fish are worth more than my jeep. sad but true.
I'm going to come off as a big penis for saying this, but, well, that's not stopped me before.

****One disclaimer, I'm not saying he has the right to do anything that he supposedly did.. And you should be free to not worry***

But you've had a 7 year ****ing match with a man who associates and lives with hard core drug users. He doesn't like you and has no sense of respect.

Maybe, just maybe... you could have seen the fish polution issue coming on the horizon? Or expected something similar...?

And, now this is just me, but if I had that kind of asset that was worth that kind of cash., that was that suceptable.. I wouldn't put it near a fence that bordered with said angrystupidvengfull nieghbor.
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Old 08-17-2004, 03:46 PM
speaceman speaceman is offline
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That's pandering to the lowest common denominator which, never achieves anything except mediocraty.

So he puts his koi pond in the middle of the yard, with a bio-dome around it. What then?

The neighbor would still find other ways to be an arse, and then what?

I would be pretty annoyed if I had to accomidate inconsiderate, drug dealers. Believe me, I have to deal with similar issues like this occasionally in my line of work (except for me, it's business not personal). Even so, it's not fun, and I can't imagine having to deal with it on a personal level (my house).

The minute you start compromising with a person acting in the manner of the neighbor, you are on the slippery slope.

Sometimes compromise is a necessary means to get something done in situations like this, but only if BOTH parties are at all willing to move on from the current situation.

If either side is unwilling to change at all, then there is no point. You're just feeding out rope to hang yourself in the end, and it just takes longer to reach the ugly, inevitable conclusion.

My opinion, but it's based on 8 years of having to deal with, on occasion, unreasonable, unyeilding people who are not following rules they have agreed upon.

[edit]

I just want to add, I can't even believe you'd entertain the position you stated above William. As far as I understood, your previous work position was basically customer relations in some respects. You really take that position thinking about having to deal with all the people who came into your office to yell at you thinking they were right, when you knew that you were following the rules and were in the right?

Isn't it essentially the same thing? How can you reconcile the two?
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  #22  
Old 08-17-2004, 05:10 PM
Chris L Chris L is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by William
I'm going to come off as a big penis ...
Maybe you should have stopped after the word penis.....I have to agree with what Shalom just said.
Eric should have the right to come home and enjoy his family and not have to stress over "what's going to happen today when I get home" and who's doing what to his things or property while he is away. The line has already been crossed. Why should he even have to consider moving from his home of 7 years [or whatever] because of some punk ass drug pricks. Most cities have noise ordenance laws [like barking dogs for instance}. You get cited 3 times then it's court time and cost's. I say form some sort of neighborhood watch, have a meeting and get the others opinions and complaints. Keep calling the cops, and make them very familiar with what's going on. sooner or later they are going to get sick of visiting his house and do something about it.
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  #23  
Old 08-17-2004, 05:59 PM
TObject TObject is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chris L
Maybe you should have stopped after the word penis...


And in that wonderful world you described nobody needs walls or locks, everyone has a right to be anything they want except for William. William's right to come off as a big penis is denied.

Wouldn't that be a wonderful laid-back world? Crackheads could coexist with KOI fish, and candy could be left in front of children.
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  #24  
Old 08-17-2004, 06:12 PM
NAILER341 NAILER341 is offline
I showed Matt my twinkie and he like it.
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by TObject


And in that wonderful world you described nobody needs walls or locks, everyone has a right to be anything they want except for William. William's right to come off as a big penis is denied.

Wouldn't that be a wonderful laid-back world? Crackheads could coexist with KOI fish, and candy could be left in front of children.
lol!
this is why i post this sort of thing on the world wide web
well, it seems the fish are more resiliant than i thought. they are still alive. it was a big undertaking to get the pond clean, but it appears i did a good job.

as far as the location of the pond....
this pond has been here for over 20 years. i bought the house from an 80 year old japanese man that had raised most of these fish from "guppies"
when i bought the place this was a big bonus. i have added some fish to the pond since.

i dont feel that i should "have" to put up tall fences or security cameras to keep my neighbor from destroying my things, or killing my pets.
nor should i have to listen to the noise they make at unreasonable hours .

i soppose everyone is entitled to their opinion on this subject, and i cant be expected to like every one of them. if you choose to come off as a penis, that is your choice

oh... and in the meantime, i have spoken with a number of resources at the city to get this mess cleaned up. you see, i have to clean this up or move. i really dont want to move. this house is in the perfect location, with that one exception. all 3 schools are less than a block away. blue ribbon schools.
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  #25  
Old 08-17-2004, 06:12 PM
Robert J. Yates Robert J. Yates is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by TObject
William's right to come off as a big penis is denied.
So does than mean he has to remain a little penis?



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  #26  
Old 08-17-2004, 06:40 PM
Chris L Chris L is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by TObject



Wouldn't that be a wonderful laid-back world? Crackheads could coexist with KOI fish, and candy could be left in front of children.
Yes sergey, that would be a wonderful world, but the problem is if the koi fish and crack/meth heads tried to co-exist, then the meth heads would be up all night trying to fix the fish or build a better shelter for them whilst starting 17 other projects at the same time and accomplishing nothing except a lot of noise. Back to problem A.
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  #27  
Old 08-17-2004, 06:43 PM
TObject TObject is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Robert J. Yates
So does than mean he has to remain a little penis?
We are still talking about "big penis", meaning to appear as a contemptible person; and not about the object that pokes children when they sit on Santa's lap, right?

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  #28  
Old 08-17-2004, 06:56 PM
TObject TObject is offline
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Posts: 7,142
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chris L
Yes sergey, that would be a wonderful world, but the problem is if the koi fish and crack/meth heads tried to co-exist, then the meth heads would be up all night trying to fix the fish or build a better shelter for them whilst starting 17 other projects at the same time and accomplishing nothing except a lot of noise. Back to problem A.
Crack is Whack!

Let me see if I can stop the post after the word penis
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  #29  
Old 08-17-2004, 06:57 PM
TObject TObject is offline
Reggae
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Posts: 7,142
Talking

It works! I think, from now on I will end my every post with word penis
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  #30  
Old 08-17-2004, 07:06 PM
TObject TObject is offline
Reggae
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Posts: 7,142
I am sorry, Eric.

I did not mean to have fun at your expense.
I just noticed, I've been working over 12 hours today, obviously, I am blabbering some nonsense.

Edit: penis
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