Front ARB leaking through breather

[Dan-H]

so, what do I need to do?

I didn't install them Its been over 2 years since they were installed.

I can take them back to the shop that did it.

or

try to fix it myself.

its gonna be a time/value call.

and, if the locker is locking, does it hurt anything to use it and have air come out the breather?

edit: because there is a planned snow trip next week, and I really don't have time to get it into a shop.

[Shades76cj5]

You can fix it if you are comfortable pulling the carrier. There are two O-Ring seals that need replacing. The only danger of running it with a leak that I know of is having it not fully engage and do something bad or the possibility of it blowing all your lube out the breather which can cause other bad probs. The o-rings are available thru ARB USA for about $1.50 apiece. I say it's better to be safe than sorry. Just my $.02.

[Darrell C]

Concur.

My buddy had this happen to his front ARB a couple weeks ago. It was bad O-rings. It does need attention or you risk loosing the functioning of the ARB.

He started leaking lube on a snow run. His ARB quit as he was trying to pull someone from a decent "stuck". Promptly ended up stuck himself. It might hold together through the run, but I wouldn't trust it.

JMHO...

[Stu Olson]

This thread brings up a question I've had for a while....which deals with the o-rings and their leaking. Some lockers spit a little gear lube out of the solenoid valve when the locker is turned off. I have one that does this while the other does not. I was told by the shop that installed mine that it is an o-ring problem.

Dan's is leaking into the housing and thus coming out the vent tube.

Are these both the result of an o-ring failure? When you think about the symptoms, they are truely different.

Maybe Dan's problem is that air source is leaking (in the housing) before it gets to the o-rings....perhaps the fitting or the copper tube?

I don't know.....but I can't figure out how the o-rings could cause both problems.

Here is a close-up of the o-rings....

[Dan-H]

I think I'll pull the front cover and see if I can find where it is leaking. O-rings does seem like the likely candidate, given this has worked very well since it was installed.

The hissing was a large leak, and with my breather located near the radiator fill cap. to give an indication of the hissing, I first thought the engine was overheating.

no oil out the breather, nor out the solenoid.

[Stu Olson]

btt

[wcjp]

When mine started breathing throught the ARB the breather tube was plugged up.

[Darrell C]

Good question, Stu.

I don't run an ARB, so I have no personal experience with them. A good friend of mine in Modesto has an ARB in his D30. I paraphrased before, so I'll elaborate a little more here.

Shortly after the install (several months ago), he started blowing lube out his breather tube. Made a mess on the underside of his hood. We were at Hollister OHV giving it a test run, when the ARB quit locking up. He took it back to the installer (a shop), and they corrected the problem, said it was O rings. It ran fine after that.

A couple weeks ago we were on a snow run and he was trying to unstuck another TJ. I noticed the front was open, so I told him to lock up the front. He said, "It is". Hum, time to investigate. Popped the hood and noticed oil/lube coming from the soleniod. Cycled the ARB switch with no success. He took it to another shop and they called saying the install was poor (not sure of those details) and the O rings were shot. They fixed it, but it hasn't been tested yet...that'll be middle of next week. BTW, he just switched to 35's and is running a stock rear D35. He knows he's running on borrowed time so he opted for a super kit w/ Detroit. It's going in this weekend. We'll test the whole shebang middle of next week before we head to Calico and JV the following weekend. We'll have a better idea of how the ARB is functioning then.

[paulharvey]Now you know the rest of the story[/paulharvey]

[Stu Olson]

Originally posted by wcjp
When mine started breathing throught the ARB the breather tube was plugged up.

I'll pull mine off and see if it is clear. Thanks for the tip.



Darrell,
Thanks for the additional information. When I was watching my ARB install, the tech mentioned that you want to be carefull when instaling the o-rings. He specifically mentioned that rolling them into the grooves will most likely result in them being twisted (in the groove) and will yield a very short life. When he installed mine (picture above), he generously lubed the diff grooves prior to putting the o-rings in place. He said this helps them slide, rather than role, into position.

[Darrell C]

Interesting info, Stu. It helps put something together for me. When my buddy got his Jeep out of the second shop (Modesto Differential), they stated the O-rings had "rolled". I wasn't sure what they meant, but with your info it makes sense.

Thanks...

[Stu Olson]

Originally posted by Dan-H
I think I'll pull the front cover and see if I can find where it is leaking.

Dan, did you do this yet or was this going to be this coming weekend's project?

[Dan-H]

Stu,

A long work day conflicted with my garage time, and it may end up a weekend project. I'll post an update as soon as I get it apart.

[Stu Olson]

Thanks!

[Dan-H]

I haven't forgotton to report on this I just haven't gotten around to doing any thing to report.

I did get a laddar hung from the ceiling in my garage so I can move some shelves in so I can stack some stuff up so I can make room to work on it, but that really doesn't count...

sounds easy but I have a 15 foot high ceiling

[Darrell C]

Originally posted by Dan-H
...sounds easy but I have a 15 foot high ceiling

Sounds like lots of room for storage

[John]

Originally posted by Dan-H
I did get a laddar hung from the ceiling in my garage so I can move some shelves in so I can stack some stuff up so I can make room to work on it, but that really doesn't count...

sounds easy but I have a 15 foot high ceiling

Maybe you just need some 60's and 70's really tall platform shoes.

[Bruce David]

Are any of you putting the GM Poisi conditioner in with your ARBs ?
I was told that it lubes/conditions the O-rings.

[Stu Olson]

Bruce....I have not done it. I do recall the ARB owner's manual making a comment about having the friction modifier in the gear lube and that it was preferred, although not required, for proper ARB operation.

[Dan-H]

Originally posted by Bruce David
Are any of you putting the GM Poisi conditioner in with your ARBs ?
I was told that it lubes/conditions the O-rings.

my gear installer added it.

I've added it when I did an oil change.

[TJeeper]

Originally posted by Bruce David
Are any of you putting the GM Poisi conditioner in with your ARBs ?
I was told that it lubes/conditions the O-rings.

A friend of mine who owns a Jeep repair shop and has done many many ARB installs recommends an additive from BG called MGC (multigear compound). Supposed to lengthen the life of the o-rings compared to some cheaper additives. When I tried to press him about why it was better than other additives, he couldn't give me a clear answer other than that is what the manufacturer's rep stated. Could be snake oil. Any thoughts?

[kid4lyf]

There is one other seal in the ARB. It's a U-cup inside the carrier. If it's bad you have to but new bolts and clips from ARB, along with the seal.

[IronWagon]

Originally posted by Stu Olson
(SNIP)Some lockers spit a little gear lube out of the solenoid valve when the locker is turned off. I have one that does this while the other does not. I was told by the shop that installed mine that it is an o-ring problem.

My D30 ARB started spitting fluid out of the solenoid a few thousand miles after install(While the 8.25 ARB has never done this).
The fluid hadn't been changed since the gear install, so I checked the fluid level and quality. The fluid still 'looked' great but seemed slightly overfilled. I switched from 75w-90 to 85W-140, made absolute sure it was not over filled, and the problem went away instantly. That was about 15k miles ago.
I know of three other D30 ARB's that acted similar to mine. One was sent back to ARB for testing, and nothing unusual was found.

[Dan-H]

The age of this thread shows how busy I've been, and where the jeep repairs have been on my priority list...

I ** FINALLY ** worked on it this morning.

It is not leaking through the O-rings.

It is leaking because my installer was an idiot and didn't properly route the brass tubing from the seal housing to the bulkhead. The brass tubing rubbed against the case of the locker until it wore a hole in it

I'm going to try to splice in a new section of tube using compression fittings. and cross my fingers I don't snap the tubing off the seal housing.

film at 11:00

[Darrell C]

Originally posted by Dan-H
The age of this thread shows how busy I've been, and where the jeep repairs have been on my priority list...

I ** FINALLY ** worked on it this morning.

It is not leaking through the O-rings.

It is leaking because my installer was an idiot and didn't properly route the brass tubing from the seal housing to the bulkhead. The brass tubing rubbed against the case of the locker until it wore a hole in it

I'm going to try to splice in a new section of tube using compression fittings. and cross my fingers I don't snap the tubing off the seal housing.

film at 11:00

Not the first time I've heard of that happening, Dan.

Not sure who did your original install, but good luck with the repairs. If you need another shop, I've heard good things about Foothill in Auburn. Tom is the guy to talk to.

[Dan-H]

Originally posted by Darrell C
Not sure who did your original install, but good luck with the repairs. If you need another shop, I've heard good things about Foothill in Auburn. Tom is the guy to talk to. [/B]

foothill did the original install.

Its fixed.

[Darrell C]

Originally posted by Dan-H
foothill did the original install.

Its fixed.

Whoops, never mind

Glad you got it repaired.

[Dan-H]

Originally posted by Darrell C
Whoops, never mind

Glad you got it repaired.

no worries Darrell,

Tom is a good guy, and foothill does good work, but every shop has bad days, and less than stellar installers.

Now if I could just find the cable for the flash card of my camera so I could show off the mish-mash of fittings hiding behind my diff cover

[Stu Olson]

Dan,

Glad you were able to find and repair the problem. The symptoms supported your discovery of the hole in the copper tube. I'm thinking (hoping?) the fix was easier than having to remove the carrier and replace the o-rings.

[Dan-H]

Stu,

Yes, this was easier than pulling the carrier, which is what I was expecting to do yesterday. I think my aprehension about tearing into it was part of the reason I didn't even start it until I had an entire day set aside.

I was pleasantly surprised. It took about 4 hours total, including breakfast and a trip to the hardware store for fittings.

here are some (blurry) pics.



In the first pic, you can see the original routing. I believe the failure was due to the installer not planning for for the diff cover smashing into the copper line coming off of the seal housing. The tubing is kinked a couple of inches from the seal housing, and there are scratches on both the cover and the tubing where they were rubbing together. This force is what I think caused the tubing to be pressed against the carrier.





Here is a horrible pic of the tubing after I cut it out. It had worn about two inches in length across the carrier.



A blurry pic after the repairs.

Parts used where a 3/16" compression 90 to 1/8" NPT, a 1/8" NPT close nipple, and another 1/8" NPT to 3/16" compression 90. I threaded the two 90s together with teflon tape once I had a workable route for the tubing.

I ran it down to reduce the amount of fussing with the position of the original tubing coming out of the seal housing. I was afraid to rebend it up, so I kept it going down and used the two 90s to head it back north. The void down on the lower right side had plenty of room for the extra fittings.

I used new tubing, which was alot easier to bend than the tubing used on the ARB.



Another blurry pic afterwards. the ice pick is pointing to the kink in the original tubing that worried me.

Before sealing it all up, I made sure that all the pieces would not rub and were air tight.

[Stu Olson]

Dan, probably not that many folks have a "quick disconnect" in their ARB line (inside the diff) but it looks like it should work just fine. I think that kind of install mistake is quite common. A friend of mine was changing diff oil on his ARB. He poke the tubing with his finger (through the fill hole) and it started leaking. He took it back to the shop that did it originally and they fixed it for him, but I would bet it was very much the same kind of problem.

Glad yours is back at full strength again!