$3.78 for Diesel

[Larry Nickell]

Just might go back to driving the Jeep for a while.

I just don't get it.

[speaceman]

Global warming tax.

[Jerry Bransford]

Profits are at an all-time high for the petroleum industry, they charge what the market will bear and then some. I remember a petroleum industry spokesman back in the early 70's saying the U.S. consumer was getting bargain pricing on our gasoline. Never did I imagine what he was truly saying was to expect that to end dramatically and soon. Then again, oil is now also about politics and international power. No one sees any end in sight to energy prices continuing to go through the roof so long as the Middle-East controls so much of the world's oil supply.

Ever notice how the producers bump gasoline prices? They want to raise pricing, say, .30 a gallon. So they raise it .50 a gallon where they get loud howls of protest. So they reduce it .20 a gallon to the .30 higher price they actually planned for and the sheeple are happy.

[speaceman]

I think low gas prices are a thing of the past. Too much demand from places like China and India.

I just wonder how long it's going to take before we start seeing fuel efficient cars that don't suck to drive.

[Joe Dillard]

In San Diego, we typically pay more for fuel than any other large city. So I'm surprised to hear how high it is for you.

Diesel a few days ago was $3.25 at a local station.

[ukjeeper]

Damn, you have almost caught us up. Its about $4.20 here right now. You guys better start looking into veg oil (canola) instead. Treasury recently gave us a break. You can make up to 2500 liters (same as a quart) of fuel without paying fuel tax on it.

[DanB98TJ]

I paid $3.19 on Saturday, but noticed it jumped to $3.28 by this morning. That's why the truck stays parked most of the time, and I bought a used Saturn to drive to work. 32 MPG with the cheaper unleaded compared to 16 MPG with diesel, 21+ miles each way...doesn't take long to pay for the car and insurance.

Jerry - I think you nailed the normal practice for the oil companies. Prices go up, they drop back...but not as low as they were. "Two steps forward, one step back" applies to more than just progress.

[Jeff Weston]

Maybe I shouldn't have gotten rid of my natural gas car that currently fills at $2.20 per equivalent gallon. Oh well.

[TObject]

What exactly is the equivalent gallon of natural gas? It surely not the equivalent in BTUs, as that way it should be about twice as expensive as gasoline.

[Paradiddle]

Originally Posted by Jeff Weston

Maybe I shouldn't have gotten rid of my natural gas car that currently fills at $2.20 per equivalent gallon. Oh well.

What are you driving to work now Jeff? Not the Stang

[ukjeeper]

My XJ runs on propane. Its less than 1/2 the price of gas, about $2 a gallon.

[JeepGal]

Chris and I are running our first tank of Biodiesel this week. We have a friend that makes it several hundred gallons at a time. We paid just a bit over $1 gallon. We need an auxilliary tank now

So far so good. No problems. Smells alot better then the low sulfur diesel...and the truck seems to be alot quieter.

I guess the biggest problem with Biodiesel is finding quality. Our friend seems to have that under control.

We had really wanted to completely fill the tank, but had to stop to get a few gallons of diesel on the way. We paid the most weve ever paid for it, $3.80 per gallon!

Tam

[ukjeeper]

Make your own biodiesel. All you really have to do is seperate out the glycerin from the veg oil. Loads of plans on the web for 'stills'

http://vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/twyntub100.html

Older diesel engines can run on straight veg oil, you just have to heat the oil (inline heater) to keep the glycerin from gumming up the fuel system. NOT recommended for people living in cold places though.

[ukjeeper]

BTW Tam, these places will help you find decent fuel in So Cal.

http://www.socalbug.org/info.html

http://forums.biodieselnow.com/forums/36/ShowForum.aspx

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/socalbiodiesel/

[ukjeeper]

Originally Posted by ukjeeper

Damn, you have almost caught us up. Its about $4.20 here right now.

My maths is terrible. I meant to say gas and diesel is about $8 per gallon right now.

[Jeff Weston]

Originally Posted by TObject

What exactly is the equivalent gallon of natural gas? It surely not the equivalent in BTUs, as that way it should be about twice as expensive as gasoline.

An equivalent gallon is based on weight, I believe 5.something pounds of CNG per equivalent gallon. In practical terms, my Honda Civic GX got about 35 mpg highway which is in the ballpark of what a regual Civic would get, maybe a tad bit lower. I believe my brother is paying closer for $1 per gallon at his home filling station, though I think the cost to compress it adds another 50 to 75 cents to that.

Originally Posted by Paradiddle

What are you driving to work now Jeff? Not the Stang

Today I'm driving my Jeep (smog check), but usually I drive the hemi Dodge truck. Fortunately, my drive is only about 16 miles round trip and not the 80 it was before.

Sadly, I have not had much of a chance to drive the Mustang since finishing it. On top of that, I'm gathering up parts to convert it to EFI. I know the purists would cringe, but I'd like it to be more streetable.

[edit] $8 per gallon in the UK is insane! Of course, some of that high cost in U.S. dollars has to be due to the large discrepancy in the exchange rate.

[ukjeeper]

Originally Posted by Jeff Weston

[edit] $8 per gallon in the UK is insane! Of course, some of that high cost in U.S. dollars has to be due to the large discrepancy in the exchange rate.

Yeah, thats true. I guess its easier to just say its 4 per gallon (without a currency figure in front). Still expensive though.

[Art Welch]

Much higher gas taxes in the UK as well I believe. Not like ours are low but theirs are high at least as of a few years ago.

[Kiwi]

I'm figuring about 123.9 gallons of diesel each way to come out for Turkey week

[Bermudacat]

Originally Posted by Jeff Weston

but usually I drive the hemi Dodge truck. Fortunately, my drive is only about 16 miles round trip and not the 80 it was before.

I see a LOT of people commuting in full-size pickup trucks where I work, not just 16 miles, more like 25 miles EACH WAY!


My commute is about 13 miles, and it's a big difference between fueling the Heep or fueling a Mazda B2000 pickup.


Blaming oil companies for high fuel prices when people drive empty pickups as commuters and houswives run errands in SUV's is like the homeless derilect blaming his acohol problem on the people who throw him change.

[Jeff Weston]

Originally Posted by Bermudacat

Blaming oil companies for high fuel prices when people drive empty pickups as commuters and houswives run errands in SUV's is like the homeless derilect blaming his acohol problem on the people who throw him change.

I agree to a point, but there are a few arguments against that generalization. If you commute a short distance yet need a pickup truck or similarly sized vehicle on a somewhat often basis, is buying a second vehicle more or less taxing on the environment/fuel supply than driving just the pickup/SUV? I don't know the figures, but I know part of what makes the Prius less "green" is the energy to produce and then recycle said vehicle.

FWIW, my wife drives a Honda minivan (and rarely is it empty with four small children) and she doesn't get any better mileage around town than my pickup.

[Bermudacat]

Totally true. I costed out a 'free' pickup just for commute, and just with fuel savings, less insurance, it was a $125 a year deficit. Naturally, I drive more than just to work, plus the mini-truck affords me utility the Heep can't give. Additionally, it's nice to not put the excess wear on the Jeep.

However, there are still LOTS of people driving large vehicles that could easily get by with something smaller.

Lastly, demand for fuel drives price. I'm guessing most people would be better off owning a smaller vehicle they drive every day and renting a large truck for those days they really need it.

The best part is we have a free market and a free society; so those that choose to commute in large vehicles can buy fuel at market price, and do so. Furthermore, those willing to drive a small car or ride a motorcycle don't have to sweat the high fuel prices quite as much.

[ABQ TJ]

I filled up today at $3.28/gallon...but I passed a few stations at $3.40-$3.50.

[Bermudacat]

Originally Posted by ABQ TJ

I filled up today at $3.28/gallon...but I passed a few stations at $3.40-$3.50.

2.8 gallons, right?

[TObject]

Some of those who drive hybrids act like they are holier than thou, where in fact they are still using oil, their vehicles still need to be produced and recycled, and they lug around heavy batteries.

My diesel pickup truck has better mileage than my jeep. In fact, diesel powered engines are about 30% more efficient than gasoline engines, automatically, just due to physics. Diesel fuel can be produced from coal; Nazis have done that successfully during WWII. We have plenty of coal, and could be making diesel fuel without using a drop of foreign oil.

I think diesel (and, maybe diesel-electric) technology could be a good stop-gap measure, until we figure out how to make cold-fusion powered cars, or something like that.

Hydrogen is not the answer; you still need a lot of energy to produce hydrogen fuel. Corn ethanol is not the answer, it takes at least as much regular fuel (and perhaps even more) to produce corn ethanol; the only reason this is popular is because of heavy donations to the agriculture. Deep-fryer fuel, while a nice gesture, we don?t have enough of if everybody switched to it.

I don?t think natural gas is the answer ether, we import it, and so it would be a similar situation to oil. Also, the price of gasoline per BTU should double, and the price of natural gas should remain the same for it to become economically viable replacement.

As such, I say, long live diesel.

[Jeff Weston]

What about electric vehicles? ... of course, we'll build nuclear power plants to generate the juice.

[TObject]

Fine, I'll allow electric vehicles.

[Lawrence]

Originally Posted by Jeff Weston

What about electric vehicles? ...

I'd go for that. Since everytime it gets a little warm we have to "Flex our Power" and the electric companies can bearly keep up with demand, that would be a good excuse for not going to work and take the day off.
Electric cars + global warming, I'm all for it.

[maddmike]

it's always interesting to get a "broader perspective" on things. i was just in europe for the past few weeks...

based on the exchange rate of the dollar to british pound, regular gas and diesel are both about $7.50 USD/gallon in London.

in germany, a gallon is about $7.90 USD.

i also saw only a handful of hybrid cars over there, as most cars/trucks overseas are diesel and typically get 40-60mpg anyway (i spoke with a friend who said his parents' 5-series diesel BMW station wagon gets 40mpg). throw a hybrid system in there and you've got 85mpg.

IMO the biggest problem with the US has been their hesitation to accept diesel as a solution for vehicles, and consumers' perception of diesel as inherently "bad". couple this with our love of vehicles twice the size of most in the rest of the world, and all of a sudden americans see the prius as the solution to the world's problems, even though it gets only slightly better mileage than a 1995 toyota tercel...!

[mrblaine]

Originally Posted by maddmike

americans see the prius as the solution to the world's problems, even though it gets only slightly better mileage than a 1995 toyota tercel...!

Factor in the total impact to the environment in dealing with the production of the batteries, disposal of them and the impact the new technology has and the Tercel is a much greener vehicle.