Driving the bus

[mrblaine]

Jeff was kind enough to let me navigate his bus up Cadillac with the qualifier that I post my opinions on here. He will probably wish he had not made that deal with me.

First off, I don't see how you guys even know where your tires are. The visibility out the front is terrible and I am surprised that there are any buses left with intact RF headlights. I felt in danger at any moment of simply shredding that corner of the bus.

Whoever designed the seats should be shot. They are exactly half as comfortable as the ones in Kat's TJ. There was little I could do to get comfortable.

The steering is marginal at best. Much more difficult to turn than the TJ and Kat's is unaltered with the exception of stronger linkages.

Do they all make you feel as if you are riding in a large steel garbage can on wheels?? I felt like that guy on Sesame Street that lived in one and at any moment expected the garbage truck to come along and hoist us up and empty us out. I guess since it has wheels that makes it more of a dumpster than a garbage can. That's it, the green dumpster on 35's.

I won't even go into the door window height other than to ask if they really need to be that high. I have been known to ride with my arm resting on the top of the door with the window rolled down, but never that high. I felt like my armpit had been infested with a large contingent of fleas and was being held in a position for easy access for continual scratching.

Are they supposed to have that side to side squishy feeling? I got to the top of the hill and was looking for some relief on the fire road and that only made things worse. I quickly wished there was a store around that dealt in seasick pills and some heating packs for the sore places on my ribs and over my kidneys.

The only saving grace this thing had was that it did not strand me anywhere and managed through my thoroughly elegant driving skills to make it up Cadillac and finally out to the staging area. Were it not for the wonderful traction of the MT/R's, we might still be there.

All in all, I felt a little punished, surprised at how well the tires did under such an unfortunate vehicle, and glad that I had enough sense to start out with a vehicle with a frame under it. Good luck Jeff, I think you are going to need it. Thanks for the test drive, but you have no concerns if you ever come out some morning and find it missing. I would be the last person to ever steal it.

[William]

Originally posted by mrblaine
I won't even go into the door window height other than to ask if they really need to be that high.

Easily fixed with a plasma cutter. I'm sure Jeff won't mind. Is next weekend ok?

[Texas ZJ1]

Yeah, don't you love them.

The shortest wheelbase that I've taken off-road is a 1972 Scout II with a spring over 4 inch lift. Next shortest was a 1984 Ramcharger with a 4inch lift and 33s. I digressed into the world of BMWs for a short period and then the 1994 ZJ.

Stiffer shocks keep mine from doing the sea rolls. Before that, they had about 90K on the OE stuff and I was getting nauseated just going down the street.

Hunter

[Scott Hill]

it does look nice and the tires seem to work. I was going for the bad driving as Jeff's fault not the fault of the rig, it looks so capable. I guess Jeff did some good driving to keep the bus on the trail.

now I know why he kept asking if it would fit I guess he could not see. I thought the unloading of the suspension was his not driving where I told him to, but now that I think of it he drove where my TJ did when he could and it did not seem stable at all. Maybe it is that suspension system he put on, it did seem to lean an awful lot.

Jeff what is your spring rate maybe that lift is just $hit. and it is what is giving you the boat feeling.


Scott

[MJR]

Here's what Papromike does on his bus to see the corners. Here he is installing them.




And here they are on his rig and ready to run some serious trails.

[Overkill]

Though I respect your opinion blaine maybe we should start to live by 'to each his own' within thejeeping community even more. Yes a TJ ect might be the best choice for a trail rig overall, But I happen to like doing some hardcore trails and being able to drive home with my heated leather seats. I like my 6,000 lb towing capacity, and the ability do drive at 120 if need be, even lifted 6".

In some situations I wouldn't trade my grand for anything, where that wheelbase helps out massively.

There's just something about beating the hell out of my vehicle on the trail keeping up with the "real jeeps" (short wheelbases) -- connecting the sway, airing up, and being able to drive it home feeling like I was in a cadillac.

And moreover than anything else... my ZJ is what I had, so its what I built. Would I do it again? Yes. Just differantly.



Last point... I'm sure you've driven several vehicles in the same class as yours, and noticed how different they all handle. You drove one grand... that's not much to base an opinion on. Maybe he likes it set up the way it is


Not intended to flame... just retaliate....

[mrblaine]

Mr. Kill- I am fairly certain that there is nothing I said in my review of Jeff's XJ that can be disputed by anyone including the rig's owner with the exception of wanting to own it, and I am clearly able to say that. I wouldn't take it if you gave it to me.

I am also fairly certain that I did not invite retaliation by stated or implied disparagement of the mental capacities of bus owners.

My review was strictly my experience. That can not be disputed. The owner of the rig was beside me the whole trip up Cadillac. I am sorry if you feel any of this was directed at you. It clearly was not.

The only comment I made relative to the performance or abilities of his rig had to do with the Tires and that was more tongue in cheek than anything, and I did it that way to remain more in spirit with the rest of my opinion than anything else.

Just out of curiosity, how many well set-up TJ's have you driven on medium difficulty trails that you could give me a counter opinion on? Try one sometime, you might be surprised.

[emdub]

Sure it's big, sure it may not be a pure offroader, but for a compromise it's a very good compromise. My WJ is my daily drive for maybe 100 miles daily 50 of them on highway. Would I rather do it in a TJ or CJ? No way! But I can still have a lot of fun off roading! Sure I have to be a bit more careful... but I'd rather be careful AND confortable!

If I could have a CJ or TJ as a toy I would, but sometimes, I'd still use the WJ I'm sure... I love it, period! I'm glad we don't all have the same taste: that'd be pretty boring, wouldn't it? Everybody using the same stuff?

As long as we're enjoying ourselves is what matters...

[Overkill]

The mighty Mr Blaine; I'm not disputing that a well set up short wheelbase vehicle will cook a well set up long wheel base alive 99% of the time. Allow me to stick my foot in my mouth after the first post. All I meant to state is that some of us like our buses the way they are, its very challenging some times. I live out east, many of the trails are less than "moab" challenging, my rig can hold its own running them, but it's definately more of a challenge than say your rig would have traveling them. If I lived out west and found myself having trouble on such insane obsticles as you seem to love, then I would probably be considering building a "non bus" rig... In short, it's what I've got so it's what I've built and wheel, but obviously its not for everyone. My grocery getter does have to get groceries some times

[PK99TJ]

It doesn't hurt that you're a little bit insane, too, Matt. Makes it fun to watch as well.

[Overkill]

Originally posted by PK99TJ
It doesn't hurt that you're a little bit insane, too, Matt. Makes it fun to watch as well.

hey, have you ever seen me break anything on the trail I couldn't fix? that's right, NO! NOT YET!

now that I said that I should never go wheeling again.. my transmissions liable to fall out of the jeep...

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by Overkill
The mighty Mr Blaine;

Why are you so offended that you have to be condescending? I made absolutely no implied or stated remarks directed at the owners of any buses of any kind. Is an overactive case of defensiveness a requirement for owning a bus?

I'm not disputing that a well set up short wheelbase vehicle will cook a well set up long wheel base alive 99% of the time. Allow me to stick my foot in my mouth after the first post. All I meant to state is that some of us like our buses the way they are, its very challenging some times.

Where did I say anything to compare a bus to a swb? I truly don't care what you drive, how you drive it, what color it is, or how many groceries, trail supplies, or kids you can shove into it.

I live out east, many of the trails are less than "moab" challenging, my rig can hold its own running them, but it's definately more of a challenge than say your rig would have traveling them. If I lived out west and found myself having trouble on such insane obsticles as you seem to love, then I would probably be considering building a "non bus" rig... In short, it's what I've got so it's what I've built and wheel, but obviously its not for everyone. My grocery getter does have to get groceries some times

All of which I think is very fine. I have no issues with the bus drivers and actually was quite impressed with their navigation through the Rubicon. I am just glad I didn't have to be the one doing it. Why does that seem wrong to you?

[Overkill]

Originally posted by mrblaine


All of which I think is very fine. I have no issues with the bus drivers and actually was quite impressed with their navigation through the Rubicon. I am just glad I didn't have to be the one doing it. Why does that seem wrong to you?

I wasn't being condescending at all, in all honesty. You run the bored and I have a great deal of respect for you, hence the "mighty mr blaine" comment.

I'm not sure what we're even talking about at this point, you stated your opinion of a bus and I just made an attempt to say why I, for one, drive MY bus. Thats all. Not trying to get into an argument or a war. I don't really know what else to say, except sorry if you got the wrong idea by my posts.

Matt

[TJRON]

What's the big deal here?
I have never driven a Cherokee of any sort and I'm glad to hear an opinion. Blaine took the opportunity to try one out and is telling his impressions. Big deal.
He gave me some impressions on my manual tranny and I didn't take offense. Also BFGs. Also K&Ns. Also Tera 4:1. Also Super D35s. Also Detroit lockers. Probably a few other things too. I like other's opinions, good or bad.
I have some not so popular opinions also.
Ron

Hey just remeber that the people who ride on the little buses are "special".


Jes

[mrblaine]

Even the best laid plans oftimes go awry. Jeff and I cooked up this plan to have me make a few disparaging remarks at his expense after he was gracious enough to let me drive his rig.

We had hoped on some different fish taking the bait, but it appears that either I hit too close to home with some truth, or they chose to lay low and suck it up.

All that aside, I must admit that I was highly impressed with the capabilities of Jeff's rig and how easy it is to navigate over the trail. My advice to all here that are prone to be close minded about the other vehicle types and their capabilities, should find the opportunity to drive something different.

Now don't get me wrong, I wasn't impressed enough to want to own one, and everything I made reference to above is still true, just to a much lesser extent. The exception being the tires.

The other item of note is how Jeff went about building this. With the exception of my wife's rig, I have seen few others do the research, acquire the parts once and put something together one time with no backward steps and have it work really well.

Don't get the impression that his is original, he, like my wife had a very adept blueprint to copy.

The Rubicon was for all intents and purposes, his maiden voyage in the "dumpster", and I had to be really nitpicky to come up with the things I did.

[Scott Hill]

where are the bus Nazi when you want them. it was a nice try.


Scott

[Mark Hinkley]

Jeff and Mr Blaine

Who could of you been fishing for?

Changing computer systems. No time to look.

It took a while to put two and two together how Mr Blaine rolled down the window in Jeffs rig to see the bear. But now I see he was driving it.

Mr Blaine see how lucky you were, if you weren't driving that rig you might of never of gotten to talk to that bear!

I'm glad you guys had and are having fun. I get to leave for a week doing Barrett/Rubicon this Sunday so maybe I'll think about you guys. NOT.


mark
orgs mfg

[Paul Sinclair]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mrblaine
[B]Even the best laid plans oftimes go awry. Jeff and I cooked up this plan to have me make a few disparaging remarks at his expense after he was gracious enough to let me drive his rig.

We had hoped on some different fish taking the bait, but it appears that either I hit too close to home with some truth, or they chose to lay low and suck it up.

Ahhh, good things come to those who wait.
Mark, I'll see you Wednesday. Remind me not to think about these guys while we're enjoying a few relaxing days on the 'Con
Paul

[Paradiddle]

Well - we tried Blaine!!!

Actually - when we saw the bear - I was driving. Blaine drove up Cadillac hill and I drove down.

Thanks to all who helped me put my XJ together.

We tried to get you guys - I guess your just too smart (or paraniod) for us!!!



Jeff

[Mark Hinkley]

"We tried to get you guys - I guess your just too smart (or paraniod) for us!!!"


I have been diving an XJ way to long to be either of those two things!

mark
orgs mfg

[cbassett]

Originally posted by Overkill
The mighty Mr Blaine; I'm not disputing that a well set up short wheelbase vehicle will cook a well set up long wheel base alive 99% of the time......

Step away from the crack pipe Overkill. I reguarly stroll through nearly every inch of Rubicon in my "bus" (who coined that phrase anyway? Shoot him please), while I watch TJs work for their lines in several locations. Both rigs have their strong suits, I won't concede 99% to any TJ, any time.

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by cbassett



my "bus" (who coined that phrase anyway? Shoot him please),

From the dictionary-

bus Pronunciation Key (bs)
n. pl. bus?es or bus?ses
A long motor vehicle for carrying passengers, usually along a fixed route.
Informal. A large or ungainly automobile.

I had never looked it up before, but is does appear appropriate. How many bullets does it take to kill a dictionary anyway?

I also looked up the word phrase- it starts off with defining it as a series of two or more words. Not exactly sure the single word "bus" fits the definition very accurately.

[Chris L]

One entry found for wrangler.


Main Entry: wran?gler
Pronunciation: -g(&-)l&r
Function: noun
Date: circa 1515
1 : a bickering disputant

bick?er?ing /'bi-k(&-)ri[ng]/
Date: 15th century
1 : to engage in a petulant or petty quarrel

[mrblaine]

Chris- a female given name short for Christine.

In short, I don't recall me bitching about the terminology applied to my vehicle of choice.

My dictionary lists the first definition of wrangler as a cowboy, just as I listed the first definition of "bus".

[Daless2]

Originally posted by mrblaine


How many bullets does it take to kill a dictionary anyway?

Hey Blaine,

Sorry, I can't help with an answer to your question, but maybe you can help me with one of my own.

I once read the entire dictionary. Does that mean I can now say:

"I have read every book every written?"

(Please say yes, I so desperately want some confirmation on this! )

Frank

[cbassett]

Tis about time to refer to what appears to be a theme at times in this joint....

pe?dan?tic Pronunciation Key (p-dntk)
adj.
Characterized by a narrow, often ostentatious concern for book learning and formal rules: a pedantic attention to details.

[Chris L]

Originally posted by mrblaine
Chris- a female given name short for Christine.

In short, I don't recall me bitching about the terminology applied to my vehicle of choice.

My dictionary lists the first definition of wrangler as a cowboy, just as I listed the first definition of "bus".

Did you not see the smilies at the bottom of the post???

Do you wish to put a more personal insult to my name???


Merriam-Webster dictionary list, as follows:
One entry found for wrangler.


Main Entry: wran?gler
Pronunciation: -g(&-)l&r
Function: noun
Date: circa 1515
1 : a bickering disputant
2 [short for horse-wrangler, probably part translation of Mexican Spanish caballerango groom] : a ranch hand who takes care of the saddle horses; broadly : COWBOY

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by cbassett
Tis about time to refer to what appears to be a theme at times in this joint....

pe?dan?tic Pronunciation Key (p-dntk)
adj.
Characterized by a narrow, often ostentatious concern for book learning and formal rules: a pedantic attention to details.

Chris, sorry if you are offended. I wasn't really trying to offend you, but now that you bring up attention to detail, you seem to be a fair hand at it your own self.

A more overriding theme may be that you are not really fond of this place or more specifically me. I am fairly comfortable with that. Maybe we should agree to disagree.

I do know that making some of the statements you make like strolling through the 'con in your rig do not endear you to many on here. There are ways and means to disprove or prove the various capabilities of our rigs and I doubt that boasting about it on here is the correct venue.

I personally don't find the Rubicon to be that difficult of a trail. That leaves me with a somewhat disheveled yardstick to use in measuring up your rig. It is better that way though, neither one of us needs to stoop to bragging about whose rig can do what. We should just go wheeling and enjoy them for what we built them for.

You have a ton of work in your rig and having built one or two myself I understand the satisfaction one derives from that.
Let's just stick to a little good natured goofin around and leave it be. Fair enough??

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by Chris L


Did you not see the smilies at the bottom of the post???

Do you wish to put a more personal insult to my name???

No, I really don't. This is just an example of how a little goofin around can easily get out of hand. I was responding to Chris Bassett's reluctance to enjoy being called a bus driver. I truly had no idea what the actual definition was.

As you know, I wheel with a mixed bunch of XJ's on a regular basis on some of the toughest trails there are. It is more of a term of endearment at times, one of exasperation at others, awe once in awhile, and mostly good natured kidding around. I would prefer not to have my friend Garry shot as he was the first I ever heard use the term. I also don't see it as ever being derogatory. Frustrating once in awhile but that's about it.

As far as personal insult with your first name, be lucky that it is a name that is purely masculine in the full form. I have a first name that cannot be shortened to a nickname and is almost always feminine.


Merriam-Webster dictionary list, as follows:
One entry found for wrangler.


Main Entry: wran?gler
Pronunciation: -g(&-)l&r
Function: noun
Date: circa 1515
1 : a bickering disputant
2 [short for horse-wrangler, probably part translation of Mexican Spanish caballerango groom] : a ranch hand who takes care of the saddle horses; broadly : COWBOY

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary

See Chris, I don't fit the actual name of my model into the same category as a "nickname" for your guy's rigs. If you wanted to post the definition of Grand first and then the definition of Cherokee and finally a combination of the two, it would be similar in my eyes. Just the way I see things and neither right or wrong.

Now, if there was an endearing nickname that the bus driver's stuck us with in a good natured way and you wanted to post up the dictionary version, then it's all good.