JV 10-01-03 first run of the season

[Robert J. Yates]

Originally posted by David taylor
Well I hate to disappoint you guy's. But there was no bus crinkling going on. Unless you consider a scratch on the rear quarter panel guards body damage.

You XJ guys need to get over yourselves - nobody here wishes damage on anybody.

Nobody here cares what you drive either - hell, we invited a guy we met at the Off Road Expo who drives a Zuk to join us. Its not about what you drive, its about how you prepare and deal with it.

I don't know why, but some opinions posted here were taken as personal insults when they were in fact nothing of the sort. Its a Jeep, its only metal and its in no way personal. Fawk, the grudges some people hold and the lengths they will go to in order to perpetuate them amazes me at times. It really only comes down to one thing............................................. ..........

That you had a good time on the trail.

[Paul Sinclair]

3 of us pre-ran Sunbonnet on Friday to make sure it was somewhat doable for the big run Sat. Good thing we did. Normally 3 of us could run Sunbonnet in about 1.5 hours, it took us about 10 hours on Friday.
The Hells Gate portion was the same as always.
The wash between Hells Gate & Sunbonnet is no longer a 2wd road, it has several spots that require 4wd, & one good optional spot.
Shortly after the plaque things got real interesting. A few spots were so washed out they took about 2 hours work to make passable.
I tore 2 MTR's, one wasn't repairable, one was repairable with 6 -8 plugs, but had to be repluged 3 or 4 times. I've only lost 1 other MTR in JV (just last month), not sure what to make of my new tire carnage.
With only 3 good tires I opted out of O.L. Oh well, I look forward to running it next month.
Paul

[David taylor]

Originally posted by Robert J. Yates
You XJ guys need to get over yourselves - nobody here wishes damage on anybody.

Nobody here cares what you drive either - hell, we invited a guy we met at the Off Road Expo who drives a Zuk to join us. Its not about what you drive, its about how you prepare and deal with it.

I don't know why, but some opinions posted here were taken as personal insults when they were in fact nothing of the sort. Its a Jeep, its only metal and its in no way personal. Fawk, the grudges some people hold and the lengths they will go to in order to perpetuate them amazes me at times. It really only comes down to one thing............................................. ..........

That you had a good time on the trail.

Robert,
I don't have a grudge. I would invite you to read this thread from the beginning again. I asked a simple question about the trail.
Then I get the "you wont make it". But if you do please post pics
of your carnage. Where you not one of the ones asking for just such pics?

[TObject]

Originally posted by David taylor
I asked a simple question about the trail.
Then I get the "you wont make it". But if you do please post pics
of your carnage. Where you not one of the ones asking for just such pics?

We were wrong on that, and I am, for one, sorry about that. You did make it, and the damage seems minimal.

It was a hard trail, though. Wouldn't you agree?

Thanks for the pictures!

[Robert J. Yates]

Originally posted by David taylor
Robert,
I don't have a grudge. I would invite you to read this thread from the beginning again. I asked a simple question about the trail.
Then I get the "you wont make it". But if you do please post pics
of your carnage. Where you not one of the ones asking for just such pics?

I find it interesting that we have been routinely trolled over here from some disgruntled members of an XJ board and then we get the "you guys are the ones keeping it going" complaint after we hand the trolls their ass. We don't troll other boards and I explained this in a PM to another XJ owner so I won't go into it anymore.

Yes I asked for pix and yes I am glad you made it with minimal carnage and no, I don't consider you a troll. Believe it or not, I actually own an XJ and its been wheeled twice now by my daughter - bone stock at that. Glad you had a great run.

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by David taylor
Robert,
I don't have a grudge. I would invite you to read this thread from the beginning again. I asked a simple question about the trail.
Then I get the "you wont make it". But if you do please post pics
of your carnage. Where you not one of the ones asking for just such pics?

David, you are quite the riot. First you invite Robert to read the thread again and then you yourself totally screw the pooch with your memory. Robert only reinforced the original request put up by Jeff.

Here, I cut and pasted the above referenced comment put up by Jeff.

It's worse now - as an ex Bus driver I wouldn't drive Outer Limits now if you paid me.

We all took body damage in a bunch of heavily armored TJs with no doors/mirrors/etc.

Stay awayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Take pictures of your carnage please.

If you will notice, the stay away comment is followed by a simple symbol indicating someone pulling your leg, a grin to indicate jocularity and a pleasant request for pics.

Nowhere in there did I understand him to say that you wouldn't make it.

Step up your accuracy a bit for us if you wish to continue here. Or, enjoy guys like me handing it back to you.

[David taylor]

Originally posted by mrblaine
David, you are quite the riot. First you invite Robert to read the thread again and then you yourself totally screw the pooch with your memory. Robert only reinforced the original request put up by Jeff.

Here, I cut and pasted the above referenced comment put up by Jeff.

It's worse now - as an ex Bus driver I wouldn't drive Outer Limits now if you paid me.

We all took body damage in a bunch of heavily armored TJs with no doors/mirrors/etc.

Stay awayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Take pictures of your carnage please.

If you will notice, the stay away comment is followed by a simple symbol indicating someone pulling your leg, a grin to indicate jocularity and a pleasant request for pics.

Nowhere in there did I understand him to say that you wouldn't make it.

Step up your accuracy a bit for us if you wish to continue here. Or, enjoy guys like me handing it back to you.

Blain,
I'll try to get my facts straight next time.

maybe not everybody sees it the same way.


We were wrong on that, and I am, for one, sorry about that. You did make it, and the damage seems minimal.

It was a hard trail, though. Wouldn't you agree?

Thanks for the pictures!

I'm ready to let this die.

[Robert J. Yates]

Originally posted by David taylor
I'm ready to let this die.

Good. Now just convince some of your brethren to do the same and we can all move forward.

[TObject]

David,

Off course I can see different from others. I was not on that Outer Limits run, for starters.

But I tell you what: you can't use my words against my friends. You can try, but you won't like the results. That's it.

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by David taylor


I'm ready to let this die.

As are we. I'd much prefer to keep the vehicle specific genitalia measuring contests out of it and just go wheeling.

I am guessing this is a Catch-22 situation. If we had of said that the trail was a cakewalk and that anyone on 32's could have made it, would you have preferred that?

Myself, I prefer honesty. I did overlook one thing in my assessment of other rigs abilities to get over the trail though. I'm not happy about or proud of it, but we spent way too much time putting back some of the rocks that the flood carried away. Enough so that I'm pretty sure it made for an easier time for the guys behind us.

Not our normal policy, but when the day started waning along with available daylight, we shifted into survival mode and just concentrated on not getting anyone hurt and getting as far down the trail as possible.

We get a lot of folks feathers ruffled over our opinions. The way around that is to learn how to ask the right question.

An example- We are fond of MT/R's, autos, short arms, TJs, and a few other things. The less perceptive out there will automatically assume that we have a bias against those that don't copy us. In fact nothing could be further from the truth and if you ask the question "Will any of what we are not fond of stop us from wheeling with you or working just as hard to get you over the tail?", you will soon find out that we really don't give a rat's butt what you drive or how you equip your particular rig.

The bottom line is that we will all get over the trail, we will all have a good time doing it, and if a little good natured ribbing bothers you, then we probably don't want you at our camp anyway. Take it as you will.

[Paradiddle]

Originally posted by mrblaine
An example- We are fond of MT/R's, autos, short arms, TJs, and a few other things. The less perceptive out there will automatically assume that we have a bias against those that don't copy us. In fact nothing could be further from the truth and if you ask the question "Will any of what we are not fond of stop us from wheeling with you or working just as hard to get you over the tail?", you will soon find out that we really don't give a rat's butt what you drive or how you equip your particular rig.
.

David - I was kidding - hence my winky. I'm glad you didn't ruin anything.

Paul - nice writeup on SB - the trails sure have changed haven't they? Did you guys run Sledge? Was it radically different?

Regarding what Blaine wrote you will note that we had a blast wheeling with Darrell who had none of the things we are "fond" of - BFGs, stick, long arms, Rubicon (which isn't a real TJ... )

Anyway - it's more who you are then what you drive. There are people out there who don't get that though - and it's truely their loss as I've yet to meet a more genuine group of people then the people I've met here.

Jeff

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by David taylor
Well I hate to disappoint you guy's. But there was no bus crinkling going on. Unless you consider a scratch on the rear quarter panel guards body damage. You need to use the whole link to see the pics

Uh, David, did you allow your selective memory to take over on your way to your penis enlargement appointment?

Care to explain this little tidbit?

Dave Taylor and I ran
Outer Limits, and while the lower half was a little
different, it was about the same difficulty. The upper
half was tough. There were no loose rocks anywhere,
only ones that wouldn't move. All the big obstacles
were taller and with bigger holes.......nothing was
filled in. We had about a dozen rigs, but one CJ broke
a Warn D30 inner shaft near the start so he went back.
I broke a tie rod, but it didn't take too long to fix.
The only other break was a weird one. A CJ bent his
one ton tie rod on a D44 hy-steer, and it bent
straight up hitting the oil pan, which was pushed in
enough to hit the crank, which put a hole in the oil
pan. The tie rod had to be removed to straighten, then
the pan pryed away from the crank, then a dime sized
hole patched with some Magic Steel epoxy putty that I
always carry. I got both front doors, the pass side
pretty good from sliding off the wall and into a rock
on one of the waterfalls, and the drivers side in that
big V notch waterfall close to the end of the trail.
Dave made it with only a small dent in his drivers
door. We finished the trail in the dark again, and
were the last group to get back to camp.

Two long, hard days of wheeling, both days finishing
in the dark. When are we going again?

I guess you meant only your bus didn't get crinkled. FYI, I have wheeled with goatman on several occasions and find him to be an above average driver. Either you are awesome or exceptionally lucky. Which is it?

[cbassett]

Originally posted by mrblaine
I have wheeled with goatman on several occasions and find him to be an above average driver. Either you are awesome or exceptionally lucky. Which is it? [/i]

Is there only one line through OL? Most of my scars tend to come from optional lines...

[David taylor]

HAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!
Now we have Blain out trolling xj boards looking for a way to save his ego.

I was speaking about myself in this thread. Did you notic I didn't say anything about the body damage on the rest of the group?

I consider Goatman a great driver. He was in front of me. As I'm sure you know the guy in front take more damage.

Oh, I'm happy with my manhood so can we stop with the penis crap. I think your beyond.

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by David taylor
HAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!
Now we have Blain out trolling xj boards looking for a way to save his ego.

I was speaking about myself in this thread. Did you notic I didn't say anything about the body damage on the rest of the group?

I consider Goatman a great driver. He was in front of me. As I'm sure you know the guy in front take more damage.

Oh, I'm happy with my manhood so can we stop with the penis crap. I think your beyond.

Actually, trolling is what you do. I never post on the XJ boards and won't. I have no need to go over there and ruffle their feathers. I wait until you show up over here.


What you said was "sorry to disappoint, no bus crinkling". Deliberately misleading to support your position. You worded it that way on purpose to make yourself look better than what actually occured on the trail and from reading Richard's report, it sounds as if one of us wrote it and furthers the point that we made originally that the rain did indeed make stuff much harder. You actually tried to say that the overall level of difficulty was the same.

If you substitute the trail names between SunBonnet and OuterLimits, his report reads nearly identical to ours as the first ones through after the rains.

Egos, I was accurate and honest about our difficulties, my ego did not prevail and cause me to post up a report that was worded in such a way as to bely the actual conditions on the trail. One of us did though. Are you running for office somewhere? If not, you should.

I do find it amusing that you attempt to make this great and wonderful discussion ending point about you only mentioning "your" body damage, but in the same context were more than willing to offer up the carnage suffered by others. Again, you left a few things out. Typical politician spin.

[cbassett]

Originally posted by David taylor
He was in front of me. As I'm sure you know the guy in front take more damage.

Is this a rule? We're not talking about breaking trail here, right? Very strange.

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by cbassett
Is there only one line through OL? Most of my scars tend to come from optional lines...

Same here, but this time, it was take the easiest line you could find, stack enough rocks so you could get your tires up on it, and hope you made it.

Typically out there, as you know, after you have run the trails enough to become complacent on the regular lines, you start looking to up the ante a bit. All in good fun, but the last run not only was the ante up, but the pot had a few rounds of bets.

Chris, I've run that trail at least 10 times, lead it more than half of those and it was just hard. Period.

[Robert J. Yates]

Originally posted by David taylor
HAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!
Now we have Blain out trolling xj boards looking for a way to save his ego.

Why do you even visit this board if we **** you off so much?

[David taylor]

When did I say you **** me off ?

I come here to see what's going on out there in the jeep world. Did you see my join date ?
I didn't just join to try and jump on anybody over outer limits. Do I have many posts ? No. I usually just look for some pics and see if I can pick up some new tech. Now somehow were down this long road over
"how is the trail".

Do I think my Junk woks better than a TJ ? Of course I do.
Do you think your rig works better than a bus ? I hope so. If not you should sell it. We all think we have the right set up for out there.
What works for some isn't always what works for the next group.

I'm just out there trying to enjoy the trails and have a good time.

[Robert J. Yates]

Originally posted by David taylor
Do I think my Junk woks better than a TJ ? Of course I do.
Do you think your rig works better than a bus ? I hope so. If not you should sell it.

See, thats it in a nutshell - we don't care.

Really, we could care less if ours works better than yours as that is simply a function of money, time and skill. There will always be somebody else out there who's pile works better irrespective of make or model. I, as others here got over that a long time ago. Hell, even in our own group there is a fair diversity of build quality. Mine is not even close to being the top dog but I don't think thats a reason for me to sell it. I know exactly whats wrong with it and how I would fix it if I had said money, time and skill. I as others here are also more than willing to tell anybody who asks what works and what doesn't.

Tell me why if you aren't p!ssed, do you sound so irritated

[Paradiddle]

Originally posted by David taylor
I'm just out there trying to enjoy the trails and have a good time.

Really? Could have fooled me. It looks like you took a shot at our wheeling group with your "trail report" and it's omissions of what happened on the trail. Seemed to me like you were candy coating it a bit to come off looking better or "tougher" so you could once again prove how great your vehicle is.

Frankly - I don't get it. When I had an XJ some of the "XJ" guys gave me $hit about being friends with the "TJ" guys. When I got rid of my XJ and got a TJ I got even more $hit from this select few about not being a good enough drive to handle the XJ.

How on earth can any one group (or a subset of that group) be so insecure about their vehicles? If you think we care what you drive you are dead wrong - I'll say it again - it's all about WHO we choose to wheel with that makes this hobby fun.

You'll note that we acknowledged how tough the trail was with no excuses or hidden agendas.

I'm with Robert - why bother posting here? Is it so you can run back to Hinkley and snicker in the members only Naxja forum? I used to have a password there too you know... You certainly don't have to leave, but I am curious as to why you spend time on this board.

Jeff

[Robert J. Yates]

Fawk You Cassens - my pile is better than yours. Wanna make something of it

Originally posted by Paradiddle
why bother posting here?
Jeff

I agree. Forum administrator, please delete my user account.

[Paradiddle]

Originally posted by Robert J. Yates
Fawk You Cassens - my pile is better than yours. Wanna make something of it

Yeah - let's go outside - wait...aren't our piles almost the same....

[Paradiddle]

Originally posted by Jes
I agree. Forum administrator, please delete my user account.

Hi Jes - hope you are well.

I didn't even know you had an account here.

[Robert J. Yates]

Originally posted by Paradiddle
Yeah - let's go outside

I shoulda let you roll when I had the chance

[Paradiddle]

Originally posted by Robert J. Yates
I shoulda let you roll when I had the chance

You owe me a keyboard - I just spit water all over it!!!

Jeff

[Robert J. Yates]

You weren't supposed to laugh - I was trying to enrage you.

[Paradiddle]

Originally posted by Robert J. Yates
You weren't supposed to laugh - I was trying to enrage you.

RRRRAAAAAARRRRRR

Is that better?

[Robert J. Yates]

Better? Yes, you now sound suitably enraged which is only appropriate since your pile is still a pile. Sell it and end yourself now