Smells like trouble

[John]

Somebody is getting shot

[Croaker]

Trouble indeed.

Citizens don't like the illegal immigration & complain. Federal government chooses to ignore the problem. Citizens take it into their own hands. At some point, a would-be-migrant will be shot, at which time the Mexican troops come across the border after the citizens.

Remember that line from The Hunt For Red October? Might just apply to some folks in the area. "This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it."

No, I don't think I'd care to be the closest US military commander in the area.

[Robert J. Yates]

Both political parties are to blame because they have both closed their eyes to the problem. Why the mexicans think they have the right to invade our contry illegally is beyond me but W has coddled Fox enough so his response comes as no surprise to me. Our borders and value of citizenship have been.......
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owned.

[Jays89YJ]

I was beaming with joy when I learned that volunteers are patrolling the boarder to HUNT down the border hoppers.

I don't see a problem with that AT ALL. I am completely for it. I caught an illegal alien from Mexico up in NH breaking into my YJ. I definitely ended his day in a bad way. The police let me go saying I protected my personal property and actually sent him to the hospital to get checked out. Plus they did NOT boot him out of the country.

I think we should adopt a New Zealand style immigration policy: If you don't fit our economic needs, GET LOST.

[Matt Pascoe]

If you don't fit our economic needs, GET LOST.

Thats exactly why we let them continue to come. They fit our economic needs nicely and by keeping them "illegal" they actually fit even better

[Jays89YJ]

Originally posted by Matt Pascoe
Thats exactly why we let them continue to come. They fit our economic needs nicely and by keeping them "illegal" they actually fit even better

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat.

[Matt Pascoe]

Originally posted by Jays89YJ
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat.

Cheap labor.

If all illegals were removed from the country and the borders were sealed our economy would be in a world of hurt.

I'm sure we would recover, and we would probably be in a much better position after the recovery, but it would hurt.

[StealthTJ]

Originally posted by Matt Pascoe
Cheap labor.

If all illegals were removed from the country and the borders were sealed our economy would be in a world of hurt.

I'm sure we would recover, and we would probably be in a much better position after the recovery, but it would hurt.

Except for the fact that the vast majority of the money that they make DOES NOT stay here, but goes back to Mexico.





Fred

[TObject]

Originally posted by StealthTJ
Except for the fact that the vast majority of the money that they make DOES NOT stay here, but goes back to Mexico.

This is another thing that keeps the economy going. Not much Mexico alone, but export of US dollars in whole. US Dollar has become an international currency of sorts. Making more dollars available keeps away the stagnation, and on the other hand countries like China who sell a lot to the US, artificially keep the currency prices fixed preventing the inflation from skyrocketing.

What does it mean for American producers: favorable positions on international markets. And at the same time it keeps pressure on foreign companies wishing to sell their stuff on the rich US soil by squeezing their margins.

Rest assured; anything that hurts monetarily is dealt with in swift manner. Whatever the problems are with illegal immigration, money is not one of them.

[Stu Olson]

Originally posted by StealthTJ
Except for the fact that the vast majority of the money that they make DOES NOT stay here, but goes back to Mexico.





Fred

I think he meant that the hurting part would be from you and I paying more for certain goods because the cheap labor supply that produced them was gone.

[StealthTJ]

Yup, that's probably what was meant.
Here in is the problem.
No one wants to pay more for anything, but everyone has a heart attack when companies move production off shore (cheaper cost) and on top of that, everyone wants higher pay




Fred

[mrblaine]

This is a fair bit of a mess, ain't it?

What a brilliant dichotomy it is. On the one hand, I have large amounts of sympathy for those who wish to stem the tide of questionable migrants using various reasons like the drain on the system, southern flowing capital, et al.

Then, I stop and wonder why it's actually allowed. Why is it allowed? As Sergey alleges, if it was purely monetary it would be solved swiftly and solidly. Since it persists, that must mean that the monetary side of it is not that bad.

I also figure like most things in this world at this scale, we won't know the truth and we only will be spoon fed agenda driven portions of it that further the aims of whoever is holding the spoon.

I have to conclude also that it is monetarily driven and until we are shown the entire scope of the ramifications on both sides, I believe that issues like oil imports, trade agreements, and bigger ticket issues are more valuable to the US as a whole than raising a big enough stink with Senor Fox by stemming the tide.

Until the balance swings cheap enough, all this will do is have the same effect as 3 dollar a gallon fuel. It's just going to produce large amounts of sniveling and until the pain in our wallets is great enough to institute permanent change in our lifestyles, buy some earplugs.

[Jays89YJ]

How does it save us money for these people to be in our country? Take an illegal to the hospital for an emergency operation, NO PROBLEM, DONE. Take a citizen who makes decent money to the hospital for an emergency operation, PROBLEM. Why?

Yes, let the illegals come into our country and populate our cities for cheap labor. Lets all pay for their Welfare. Then lets raise taxes and raise the minimum wage.

Then let's not ever try to fix the problem and let terrorists into our country. Hell, I don't give a damn, I'm in Kuwait and have terrorists creeping by all the time. Plus I'm residing in Boise. I'd say terrorists have much higher interest in larger, coastal cities. Which means most of you.

Immigration SHOULD be monitored and there SHOULD be extensive background checks on EVERYONE who steps foot into our country.

You want cheap labor? Scrounge the bums and welfare feeders AND PUT THEM TO WORK!!!

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by Jays89YJ
How does it save us money for these people to be in our country? Take an illegal to the hospital for an emergency operation, NO PROBLEM, DONE. Take a citizen who makes decent money to the hospital for an emergency operation, PROBLEM. Why?

You would have to have access to all of the data to determine the savings. Then you would have to factor in all of the costs for prevention. I contend that has been done and thus is the reason for status quo.

Yes, let the illegals come into our country and populate our cities for cheap labor. Lets all pay for their Welfare. Then lets raise taxes and raise the minimum wage.

Then let's not ever try to fix the problem and let terrorists into our country. Hell, I don't give a damn, I'm in Kuwait and have terrorists creeping by all the time. Plus I'm residing in Boise. I'd say terrorists have much higher interest in larger, coastal cities. Which means most of you.

Immigration SHOULD be monitored and there SHOULD be extensive background checks on EVERYONE who steps foot into our country.

You want cheap labor? Scrounge the bums and welfare feeders AND PUT THEM TO WORK!!!

If the case could be made that tied any terrorists to the Mexican border problem, it would be closed tomorrow. There hasn't been, so it's still essentially open.

If you took the illegals off the welfare rolls, we'd still have a problem. It'd still be large and practically unsolveable under today's societal standards. It's still okay to be a baby factory and a deadbeat dad and until that changes, welfare is here to stay.

The other factor is that the Feds are not paying for the majority of the costs that the states incur. Until it starts hurting the Federal wallet, it's not gonna change nor will it change because other agreements are seemingly more important. Until you and I know the whole truth about those, we are only as educated as the 3 blind men describing the elephant.

[Jays89YJ]

Originally posted by mrblaine
If the case could be made that tied any terrorists to the Mexican border problem, it would be closed tomorrow. There hasn't been, so it's still essentially open.

If you took the illegals off the welfare rolls, we'd still have a problem. It'd still be large and practically unsolveable under today's societal standards. It's still okay to be a baby factory and a deadbeat dad and until that changes, welfare is here to stay.

The other factor is that the Feds are not paying for the majority of the costs that the states incur. Until it starts hurting the Federal wallet, it's not gonna change nor will it change because other agreements are seemingly more important. Until you and I know the whole truth about those, we are only as educated as the 3 blind men describing the elephant.

Then close the Mexican boarders to keep those SOB out of my state when they're running tons of Meth up through it. It's a common fact that the meth pushers are coming from and through Mexico.

Whatever society thinks it's ok to be a deadbeat father, should be abolished.

Yeah, well state taxes are always increasing and so are the numbers of Welfare recipients as well as worthless illegals and immigrants who come over here to do nothing, but feed off of the system. I've had enough and I'm not even in the US.

That is one reason I like where I'm goign to live. Unemployment is below average. The area is in a growing state and not growing with the slime aforementioned.

Welfare recipients flocked to my home town in VT. They flocked there because they could receive more and more welfare. They all came from Inner city NYC. Now my hometown is a real POS and I'm ashamed of what it's turning into.

[dakuda]

I think this is an even simpler issue the the costs and money situation that mrblaine has mentioned (even though that has merit).

THe legal voting block of mexican immigrants has become too important for any politican/party to want to alienate that group. Therefore, they will not touch illegal immigration from Mexico with a ten foot pole.

Nutshell: They want to be re-elected.

[speaceman]

Eh... the illegal immigration problem will be addressed as soon as union workers in the midwest start losing jobs to illegals.

I don't think we have much longer to wait for the problem to be dealt with in some manner (as opposed to completely ignored right now).

States besides CA, AZ, TX, NM, are starting to feel the crunch. Some of the states in the north west and mid west are having the same issues that CA had 20 years ago.

We'll see I guess.

[Robert J. Yates]

Originally posted by mrblaine
The other factor is that the Feds are not paying for the majority of the costs that the states incur. Until it starts hurting the Federal wallet, it's not gonna change nor will it change because other agreements are seemingly more important.

Bingo.

Californians might remember when former Governor Pete Wilson gave GB the First a bill for the cost to the state for dealing with the illegal immigration problem. GB the First told his fellow republican to go pound sand. Subsequently, we ended up with Prop 187 which the liberal (read democratically appointed) minded 9th Circuit Court tossed out as unconsitituional as an invasion on federal rights, ie the policy and enforcement of immigation statutes belongs soley to the Federal government and cannot be ursurped by either voters ot state statute.

So there you have it folks - both parties and both branches of the federal government giving tacit approval to it. I probably wouldn't mind so much but for the illegal factor. For Gods sake - forget about citizenship by amnesty, issue them a work visa, tax then as we are and call it good

[cbassett]

Originally posted by Jays89YJ
Then close the Mexican boarders to keep those SOB out of my state when they're running tons of Meth up through it. It's a common fact that the meth pushers are coming from and through Mexico.

When I was growing up, the smaller towns on the outskirts of my hometown (in the puget sound area) were well-known meth mfg areas. And when those areas went dry due to crackdowns, I knew runners that made the drive weekly to ID.

I'm less concerned about the drugs coming over the border, than the illegal immigrants.


I don't think Bush has the cajones to take on Fox. Anyone found a newsline with the White House's response to Fox's declaration of conflict with the Miniutemen? Fox is invoking international law and preparing his military against our civilians?? WTF?!

This sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

[cbassett]

Originally posted by speaceman
Eh... the illegal immigration problem will be addressed as soon as union workers in the midwest start losing jobs to illegals.

Don't count on it. I heard a report this morning, of a region in Nebraska that is now "75% Mexican, mostly illegal immigrants". Trying to find the source, can't locate it. I think the economic incentive to foster illegal immigration (dirt cheap labor) is the largest hurdle in overcoming illegal immigration on the Mexcio border. I think it's largely why Bush won't do anything about and, to the contrary, is promoting his "open borders" philosophy.


I dismiss the arguement of illegals "doing the jobs Americans won't". They're doing the jobs American's can't afford to. They're also living in shacks, creating barrios in pastures and culverts, and living a meager existence.

[Sephiroth]

Originally posted by cbassett
Fox's declaration of conflict with the Miniutemen? Fox is invoking international law and preparing his military against our civilians?? WTF?!

Miniutemen my ass its the Aryan Nations, does anyone care if Fox shoots them??

[speaceman]

You're fooling yourself if you think that the Minutemen organization is made up of anything other than people who have lived in states like CA, AZ, NM, or TX for longer than 10 years and remember how certain quality of life issues were different, oh, say 20 years ago.

As for Bush taking of Fox, you have got to be kidding.

Those guys are practically blood brothers.

[Robert J. Yates]

Why do I envision tejano music and pit BBQ's at Crawford Ranch?

[cbassett]

Originally posted by Sephiroth
Miniutemen my ass its the Aryan Nations, does anyone care if Fox shoots them??

Explain this post. Both parts; that you think they're part of the Aryan Nation, and that you don't care if the President of Mexico orders an attack on your fellow citizens.

[cbassett]

Originally posted by Robert J. Yates
Why do I envision tejano music and pit BBQ's at Crawford Ranch?

I love Tejano, and salt-rubbed ribs!

Wish I owned a ranch though.

[Stu Olson]

Originally posted by cbassett

I dismiss the arguement of illegals "doing the jobs Americans won't". They're doing the jobs American's can't afford to. They're also living in shacks, creating barrios in pastures and culverts, and living a meager existence.

Partially true but far from being the majority, IMO.

Ever hear of an 8 income family. I am surrounded by them......mom, dad, and their litter of kids all working crap ass jobs......so they can live next to me in the neighborhood that use to be 1 and 2 income families. I ****ing kid you not.....the grass in their front yard is pushing 2 feet tall right now. Yeah, they can afford to buy a low rider but not mow their damn grass. If you want the junker pickup trucks parked in the street and in their driveways, come help yourself. I wish to hell they would go live in a culvert somewhere! It would make my day and then some!

[cbassett]

Bleeding heart ****e called the LA Times:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...er4apr04.story


Then a little closer to the center:

http://svherald.com/articles/2005/04...news/news2.txt


I guess they do come here for the jobs no American will do

:
http://www.the-dispatch.com/apps/pbc...24&cachetime=5

[cbassett]

Originally posted by Stu Olson
Partially true but far from being the majority, IMO.

Ever hear of an 8 income family.

Yep, have some 10+ income families in our neighborhood. Just as we have multiple tiers of income levels, the illegals have the same. I was only referring to the migrant farmers. I know of some 6-figure income illegals, close to relatives of friends.

[Robert J. Yates]

You guys and your 6-8 income households actually made me think that is the one thing I actually thank my HOA for. That is completely against our CC&R's thank God.

[Sephiroth]

Originally posted by cbassett
Explain this post. Both parts; that you think they're part of the Aryan Nation, and that you don't care if the President of Mexico orders an attack on your fellow citizens.

MinuteMan , militia, what ever you want to call them are nothing more then white separatist, aryan.

And if they get shot OH WELL.