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  #1  
Old 03-06-2005, 11:15 AM
TObject TObject is offline
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Lightbulb Amazing Encounter

I had a little trip to Anza Borrego of my own yesterday.
Sorry I didn't stop to visit you TDS guys, but I ran out of time
quicker than I expected.

Anyway, I went to photograph flowers (there is a lot this year),
and was I glad I packed my long gun lens with me
just in case! Because see what I run into:

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  #2  
Old 03-06-2005, 01:11 PM
Stu Olson Stu Olson is offline
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Nice catch with the camera. I've ran into them once here in AZ while I was out wheelin'.

Contrary to popular belief, they do NOT taste like BBQ chicken!
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  #3  
Old 03-06-2005, 03:52 PM
blkTJ blkTJ is offline
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Re: Amazing Encounter

Quote:
Originally posted by TObject
I had a little trip to Anza Borrego of my own yesterday.
Sorry I didn't stop to visit you TDS guys...
jerk. j/k, cool pic.
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  #4  
Old 03-06-2005, 04:13 PM
Matt Pascoe Matt Pascoe is offline
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Sergey, Me thinks you need to recheck your GPS....

You were a few miles West of Anza at the Wild Animal Park

Great pic!

Too bad you didnt make TDS. It was, well, interesting

Great company around the fire, and thats what really counts
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  #5  
Old 03-06-2005, 08:02 PM
Wind_Danzer Wind_Danzer is offline
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Awesome pic!!!! Nicely done.
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  #6  
Old 03-07-2005, 08:06 AM
Iceman Iceman is offline
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Hey Sergey,

how come they've got that 'look' on their face?

Nice pic BTW
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  #7  
Old 03-07-2005, 08:15 AM
NAILER341 NAILER341 is offline
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that is a great picture sergey.
very nice
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  #8  
Old 03-07-2005, 08:31 AM
Robert J. Yates Robert J. Yates is offline
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Re: Amazing Encounter

Quote:
Originally posted by TObject
I had a little trip to Anza Borrego of my own yesterday.
Sorry I didn't stop to visit you TDS guys, but I ran out of time
quicker than I expected.

Anyway, I went to photograph flowers (there is a lot this year),
and was I glad I packed my long gun lens with me
just in case! Because see what I run into:

Where exactly where you Sergey?

The reason I ask is that Coyote Canyon in ABSP has been closed to motorized use due to the science that says vehicles disturb the sheep. Quite obviously that was not the case in your situation. Getting a look at these sheep is a rare expereince and one that aids the junk science of the CBD and others of their ilk that seek to lock us out.

Coyote Canyon is a great trail, its not to terribly difficult but it is very very scenic with a couple of rough patches. I had a chance to do it once in my Ranger before I got my Jeep. I needed to be straped up the big hill past middle willows and there was no way I was making the exit. I camped there for 2 days and would love to do that again.

I'm thinking that with the fight going on to re-open it, you may have provided us with some very good arguments as to why.
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  #9  
Old 03-07-2005, 09:38 AM
TObject TObject is offline
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It was in the Southern part of Borrego Springs ? Yaqui Pass (I'll need to check with the map and confirm the name) ? not a very remote area at all. I was on foot. The sheep stayed on the hill for 15 minutes or so, then went away in the East direction.
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  #10  
Old 03-07-2005, 09:50 AM
Robert J. Yates Robert J. Yates is offline
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How close were you to your vehicle or a trail that allows vehicles? Thats very important......
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  #11  
Old 03-07-2005, 10:05 AM
Jeff McRae Jeff McRae is offline
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Lots of good critter info here:

http://www.desertbighorn.cjb.net/
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  #12  
Old 03-07-2005, 10:07 AM
JeepGal JeepGal is offline
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Re: Re: Amazing Encounter

Quote:
Originally posted by Robert J. Yates
Where exactly where you Sergey?

The reason I ask is that Coyote Canyon in ABSP has been closed to motorized use due to the science that says vehicles disturb the sheep. Quite obviously that was not the case in your situation. Getting a look at these sheep is a rare expereince and one that aids the junk science of the CBD and others of their ilk that seek to lock us out.
...

I'm thinking that with the fight going on to re-open it, you may have provided us with some very good arguments as to why.
Im not sure how this applies...

But many years ago while in Yellowstone, the Bighorn Sheep were NOT bothered by motorvehicles at all. They even blocked the road on numerous occasions. I have a picture of one with his head IN my Toyota truck looking for a handout.

I think its only a matter of them getting used to the presence motor vehicles driving through. My bigger concern would be dirt bikes going through there if they opened it.

Id love to at least drive the half of it. Maybe stay up at the cabin for a bit. Ive heard stories of when you could drive all the way through, and would love to make it possible again.

Great pic Sergey!

Tam
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  #13  
Old 03-07-2005, 10:12 AM
Robert J. Yates Robert J. Yates is offline
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That trail needs to be re-opened. It was closed arbitraily IMO by the State parks Authority after alot of threats from the CBD. I believe there is alot of junk science that was thrown around on this because of the sheep. Even the Riverside and Imperial County Supervisors are on record that it was an illegal closure and have asserted RS2722 rights on the trail.

Obviously, the sheep are procreating - thats a fair share of youngins' in that pic.
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  #14  
Old 03-07-2005, 01:01 PM
TObject TObject is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Robert J. Yates
How close were you to your vehicle or a trail that allows vehicles? Thats very important......
500 yards or so. No trails that allow vehicles nearby, the car parked on the shoulder of highway.
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  #15  
Old 03-07-2005, 01:16 PM
Robert J. Yates Robert J. Yates is offline
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Even better - sheep within 500 yards of the highway really debunks the unproven science that they are bothered by motorized vehicles. Can you forward that pic to the Blue Ribbon Coalition with a short note? I'm thinking of also sending it to the Cal4Wheel EA if you wouldn't mind.
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  #16  
Old 03-07-2005, 01:30 PM
TObject TObject is offline
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Robert,

I see what you are trying to do. And I respect that. I appreciate your willingness to fight the unjust road closures and stuff.

But in this particular case, I think it is better if we just simmer down. The sheep on the picture obviously look distracted. I am afraid if we raise the stink, before you know, they will ban guys with cameras.
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  #17  
Old 03-07-2005, 01:40 PM
Robert J. Yates Robert J. Yates is offline
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You have a very rare photo of what have been described as very rare sheep. I've only seenone other and that was years ago in Arizona. Some folks claim that there are only 150 of them left but I count 15 in that photo which would make it 10% of the claimed population. Somehow I think thats bunk given the number of yearlings in your photo.

Thats your call Sergey because its your picture and I'll respect that but I don't agree that it looks like they are distracted or that the CBD or some other commie group will try to ban cameras.
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  #18  
Old 03-07-2005, 02:02 PM
TObject TObject is offline
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Ok, let's give it a try.
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  #19  
Old 03-07-2005, 02:17 PM
Robert J. Yates Robert J. Yates is offline
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Thumbs up Thanx

Let me start with the Cal4Wheel rep John Stewart and see if he has any use for it. He spoke at TDS during the raffle and they are working very hard to re-open Coyote Canyon. I think this pic would help them out - alot. I'll post up what he says.

Thanx Sergey - I really appreciate you being pragmatic and open to changing your mind on this
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  #20  
Old 03-07-2005, 02:28 PM
TObject TObject is offline
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No problem. I am easy - I think that's why people love me.
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  #21  
Old 03-07-2005, 02:32 PM
Robert J. Yates Robert J. Yates is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by TObject
No problem. I am easy - I think that's why people love me.
Yea well, love the person and not the man is how I see it

Now as far as Cassens is concerned, I'm sure he might consider that to be the reverse when it comes down to letting you use his motorhome
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  #22  
Old 03-07-2005, 06:38 PM
mrblaine mrblaine is offline
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Sergey, awesome picture. According to the Desert Bighorn site, that is one of the relocated groups that's been reintroduced to their original habitat after being eaten by all the miners during the gold rush.

They look to be doing quite nicely given the quantity of young'uns in the group of 16.

It took me awhile to recognize them as Bighorns given they have much smaller ones than regular Bighorn sheep until the site explained that the Desert Bighorn is actually a subspecies. Made more sense then.
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  #23  
Old 03-07-2005, 10:14 PM
JeepGal JeepGal is offline
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Re: Thanx

Quote:
Originally posted by Robert J. Yates
Let me start with the Cal4Wheel rep John Stewart and see if he has any use for it. He spoke at TDS during the raffle and they are working very hard to re-open Coyote Canyon. I think this pic would help them out - alot. I'll post up what he says.

Thanx Sergey - I really appreciate you being pragmatic and open to changing your mind on this
FYI..John is also an active member of The Society for the Conservation of Bighorn Sheep

Hopefully hell have alot of voice in this battle.
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  #24  
Old 03-14-2005, 08:13 AM
Robert J. Yates Robert J. Yates is offline
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FYI

Here is the response I got from John Stewart - read the last sentence. I knew it wouldn't be long....

>>> John Stewart <john@muirnet.net> 3/11/2005 10:59:01 AM >>>
That is a common sight heading up Montazuma Grade
on S-22 out of Borrego Springs.

There is a lot of controversy about the health of
the big horn sheep population. With every step
the park takes to "protect" them, there is an
unexplained population crash.

We do know that since vehicles were excluded from
Coyote Canyon, water sources have become
overgrown and sheep no longer use them.

Since the wild horses were removed, mountain lion
have switched to big horn sheep as a primary food
source. The park had 18 collared sheep die. 15
were confirmed mountain lion kills.

There are many issues involving the sheep.
Everyone can agree on one core issue, the
population is in steady decline.

This particular genetic breed (Peninsular Big
Horn) are problematic. In the early 1950's a
number were captured and relocated to Southern
Idaho to re-establish a breeding population in
Owyhee County. That population flourished until
the past few years. Like the ABDSP heard, they
have had a significant population crash in recent
years.

Mountain lion predation is a major cause. But,
something else is happening and it is not
vehicles.

Like the desert tortoise, the big horn is a
rallying species to exclude human access.

BTW, parks is even wanting to exclude hiking from
the Palm and Coyote Canyon areas where the major
herd of big horns habitat.


At 9:19 AM -0800 3/10/05, Robert Yates wrote:
>I am one of the founding members of www.Jeepbbs.net. One of my fellow
>board members was in Anza Borrego State Park during the weekend of TDS
>and took the attached picture that I thought you folks might be
>interested in.
>
>I thought that this photograph might be helpful in the struggle to
>re-open Coyote Canyon given the junk science bandied about concerning
>the well being of the sheep.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Robert J. Yates
>
>Attachment converted: lil' jeep:sheep.jpg (JPEG/?IC?) (001643A0)


--
John Stewart
Director, Environmental Affairs
United Four Wheel Drive Associations, http://www.ufwda.org
Natural Resource Consultant
California Association of 4 Wheel Drive Clubs, http://www.ca4wdc.com
Recreation Access and Conservation Editor, http://www.4x4wire.com
Moderator, MUIRNet - Multiple Use Information Resource Network
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  #25  
Old 03-17-2005, 12:28 PM
Desert Fox Desert Fox is offline
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Cool

Sergey,

The only time I have ever seen the ABDSP Big Horns was at Yaqui Pass! It was in January of 2003 and I was attending a lecture
about all the various cactus located in Grapvine Valley, which is at the western base of Yaqui Pass, where it joins RT 78. The ranger told us that the Big Horns were frequently seen on the ridges around Yaqui Pass, and sure enough we saw a group of about eight walking along a ridge on the NW side of the pass. No camera, no photos. But I never forgot it.

If you are interested, you can stop at the visitor's center and review the sightings board they maintain. The sheep seem to be sighted along west side of Montezuma grade more than other locations that you can see from the road.
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  #26  
Old 03-17-2005, 09:15 PM
Chris L Chris L is offline
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I have been working for the big horn sheep society {checking/maintaining one of the watering holes} for almost 2 years now, and have never seen one in person.
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