Control Arm Bushing ?

[Ace!]

Need help quick, I'm supposed to be leading an overnight run this weekend.

Can the stock bushings be used from any set of arms to another? If the stock lower arms bushings are shot can I replace them with the bushings from the stock uppers (that were replaced with RE arms)? What do I need to "press" them out/in? I haven't had a chance to look, but the stock uppers and lowers are different, right (I can't just take the lowers off and bolt on the uppers I'd previously taken off)?

Áron O'Proinntigh is ainm dom

[TJRON]

The way I do it:
I use a jig saw to cut through the old rubber and remove the bolt pin. Some burn the rubber out.
I hack saw the old sleeve in two places.
I use a cold chisel and BFH to whack it out.
I clean up the control arm with wet/dry sand paper.

I use a grinder to cut the bushing out of the stock arm. I imagine a hack saw would work fine.
I wrecked a cheap vice trying to press the bushing in. Use a press.
The hard part is getting the old bushing out.

Ace,
How can you need help quick if you don't know if the bushings are bad?
Ron

[Ace!]

Good catch Quick is relative to how often I can get back to JeepBBS to read these solutions (I'm online from 8:00AM to 5:00PM, but unless I'm at work I'm probably not going to be online), and the time I have available to fix whatever is wrong after work (it's dark by 6:00PM, and I've got a bunch of little stuff to do before Friday, and a "guest" in town until Friday). So, a quick answer means more time for getting any ducks in a row and spending any block of fifteen plus minutes free on the solution, maybe fifteen minutes at a time over several days. I can't wait until I'm retired...

It's the lower control arms in the rear that is the problem (at least the biggest current problem).

Thanks for the input!

Áron O'Proinntigh is ainm dom

[TJRON]

So, how long have you had those contol arms?

[Ace!]

3.5 yrs, almost 30k miles

Áron O'Proinntigh is ainm dom

[TJRON]

You did good!
All four of mine have been replaced since April.

[Brad Kilby]

Hey Ron, did you get that goody package yet?

http://www.dehesa4x4.com/bkilby/

[TJRON]

Yes Brad. I'm sorry I didn't let you know.
I have two spare arms I'm going to try them on. It's a bitch getting the ruber completely of the metal bushing. I only have a cheap propane torch and it heats the hell out of the arm but doesn't seem to phase that last bit of rubber!
I think they will fit OK the way you set them up, time will tell how well they work.
Thanks, I'll keep you posted.
Ron

[Brad Kilby]

No worries here. I hope they work out good! When burning the rubber out, I normally just torch them till they start burning and smoking. Let them sit this way for a bit and the rubber will fall out. It's a stinky mess (don't do this in the kitchen) but it'll work. Dunno if the propane torch will get hot enough though.

http://www.dehesa4x4.com/bkilby/

[William]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brad Kilby:
(don't do this in the kitchen)[/quote]

Heh,

Jeeps should come with instructions such as these!

That and don't paint skids in the livining room..

Etc. You know..

R/
William
Insert witty statement here.
Ask me about my feelings about squirells.

[Hellbender]

Damn Tera-Flex stuff

2000 TJ 4.0L, A/T, all factory options.
Jeep Rater Score 360
http://www.hellbender.rockcrawler.com/
NRA Lifetime Member

[Stu Olson]

So TJRon, you seem to be the bushing recycling expert I was thinking about pulling a couple sets out of some stock arms this weekend and getting them ready for use. I found the hint of a lower arm getting ready to clunk (rubber chunk hanging out of it).

So, I ready your previous comments about taking the bushings out and I wasn't sure which of your steps applied to which bushing (used up RE bushing and the bushing still in the stock arm).

Could you please run those past me one more time with more obvious grouping of the steps so I can figure this procedure out. Thanks!

If your gonna play, you gotta pay
http://www.stu-offroad.com

[Jeff Weston]

I'm not Ron but I've done a bunch and I'll let you know what worked for me. To remove the rubber bushings from the stock arms I made a cut almost all the way through at the smallest part of the arm around the bushing. Wiggling the thin metal back and forth with some pliers made it easy to get the bushings out. To remove the bushing from my RE arms I used a dead blow hammer and they popped right out. I used my press once but found the hammer to be quicker and easier.

One thing I found when putting the stock bushings into the RE arms is that the O.D. of the bushing was sometimes a bit too large. Not having a lathe, I put a screwdriver through the center and spun it around up against my bench grinder. It was a snap and does a good job of "turning 'em down in a pinch."

I've heard of people burning out the bushings in the RE arms but it wasn't required in my case.

Good luck!

Jeff

[TJRON]

Jeff, I want you to come over and dead blow my bushings out!
The only way I could get them out was to cut through the rubber. I use a saber saw and cut around the rubber bushing. Then I used a hack saw to cut the pressed in metal part in two places and then a hammer. Some burn them out but my wife would kick my butt. Some say a BFH on the metal part but my hammer was not FB enough so I cut it up some first.
Of course clean up the arm and bushing real good before pressing it in. I ruined a cheap big vice on one, so I use a press now.
I hope you find a better way!
Ro

[Stu Olson]

Jeff and Ron,

Thanks....I have a much better picture now of what I'll be trying!

If your gonna play, you gotta pay
http://www.stu-offroad.com

[Jeff Weston]

Yikes Ron! With the ease that mine came out I consider myself quite fortunate!

Jeff

[Jim B]

Below you will find some spacers that a machinist friend of mine made for me out of his scrap to ease my life a bit. You can use these with any press or some sort of C clamp. They come off like butter and they go on like butter.

Go to any machine shop and get something like this made out of his scrap pile. Keep it with you and find a friend with a press or big C clamp and your done in less than 30 minutes for the two arms. I carry these on my long trips... just in case. I seem to be going through the lowers every two outings.

Without these spacers it would be a pain. I could cut the install spacer in half to make it lighter but have not had the time. You will want the removal spacer the same length as the arm.









Jim B.

97TJ El Niño, Mods listed on Web Site.
JJB@worldoversea.com
http://www.jeep.worldoversea.com
Jeep Rater Score: 42

[Stu Olson]

TJRon....succcess!






Four "new" bushings ready to be recycled in the RE arms.

Jim B - I like your "bushing dies" (reminds me of a relading die for making ammunition). Those would probably work perfectly with my u-joint press. Here is a pic of an axle stub in the press.




What do you think? Would your bushing dies work in that? What would be the chances of getting hold of a pair of those?

If you're gonna play, you gotta pay
http://www.stu-offroad.com

[Jim B]

Stu,

I don't see why it would not work if you find some type of bottom support for the arm that has enough clearance underneath as to not interfere with the bushing as it is being pushed out. You will also need to find a flat steel plate to go on top of the install spacer.

If you wish I can get you the caliper measurements of the spacers. I don't let these out of my sight, it took some creative ass kissing to get these simple spacers done and I don't want to wear out my welcome. I'm sure if you stop by any machine shop with a pic and measurements it would be very inexpensive to do. You are welcome to borrow them anytime... especially in Moab.

Jim B.

97TJ El Niño, Mods listed on Web Site.
JJB@worldoversea.com
http://www.jeep.worldoversea.com
Jeep Rater Score: 42

[Stu Olson]

Jim, not a problem. I'll see if I can find someone at work to help me out. When I push my old ones out of my RE arms, I'll grab the dial calipers and get some numbers.

I already have the clearenced bottom support for the u-joint press, as it also does ball joints and they are used for that. I'll have to check measurements but I think that part will work as it is.

If you're gonna play, you gotta pay
http://www.stu-offroad.com

[TJRON]

I must be thick. I can't figure out what your spacers do to make it easy. How do you get around the flanged end? It seems to be in the way when pressing out the bushing. Does your spacer goodies address this? How does the c-clamp work with them? I'm in the dark.
Thanks,
Ron

[Jim B]

Stu,
The ball joint spacers should work well if you have just the right one. I have the C clamp but go to my friend's press to do this. I'm going to have to see what I can have made so that it can support the arm upon removal using the C clamp.

Ron,
On the press all you have to do is support the arm just below the part that holds the bushing. With the C clamp is a bit tricky as you have to have another spacer that is larger than the lip to support the arm while allowing enough clearance for the lip of the bushing upon removal. The install part might need another spacer but not that big and it should be easier to grab the lip of the arm.

Jim B.

97TJ El Niño, Mods listed on Web Site.
JJB@worldoversea.com
http://www.jeep.worldoversea.com
Jeep Rater Score: 42

[Hellbender]

Have you guy's thought of getting rid of the rubber and going with a greasable poly bushing??

Sounds like fun changing those out after every 2 trips !!!!

2000 TJ 4.0L, A/T, all factory options.
Jeep Rater Score 360
http://www.hellbender.rockcrawler.com/
NRA Lifetime Member

[Jim B]

HB,

Two trips is about 15 days of good wheeling. You are right, it's no fun. If I could find someone that made a poly bushing I would not mind giving it a try as long as it had some flex to it.

They used to last longer until the weight of the new axle with bigger tires.

Jim B.

97TJ El Niño, Mods listed on Web Site.
JJB@worldoversea.com
http://www.jeep.worldoversea.com
Jeep Rater Score: 42

[TJRON]

Brad sent me a couple poly bushings and I'll try them next.
Jim, where do you get bushings? You can't have that many old stock control arms. If RE's bushings are like the original ones, they suck.
Ron

[Jim B]

Ron,

I buy them from RE, they are the same as stock, and yes they suck. However I think I might be able to get more than 2 outings out of the next ones. RE tried to experiment with a bushing that had a void (space) in one of the sides. I guess they did this for more flex. Well it flexed alright, right off the center support. On my next order they sent the stock ones which are the ones you see on the pic. I did not say anything so they must have found out and changed back to the old style. I think these will last a bit longer.

My rear lowers seem to take all the stress and these are the ones I change often. The front lowers and front uppers seem to do fine and they have been on almost a year, the upper rear don't take any. I don't think no one makes a poly as I've been looking. If anyone finds someone who makes a poly, please pass on the info as I would like to try one as long as it has some slight flex to it.

As our TJ has only a Jeep rater score of 42 and I only take fishing trails, I can't understand why this is happening. Btw, my entire vehicle is DOT approved, down to the beadlocks. I got a sticker from DOT saying so.

Jim B.

97TJ El Niño, Mods listed on Web Site.
JJB@worldoversea.com
http://www.jeep.worldoversea.com
Jeep Rater Score: 42

[This message was edited by Jim B on November 19, 2001 at 04:38 AM.]

[TJRON]

The control arms I got from them (6 lowers) all had those bushings with the hole in them. They are the ones that took a dump immediately. The guy at RE seemed to know nothing about any of this. "Duh, do you have a problem? We hardly ever sell bushings 'cause they just aren't a problem."
I found a site that offered poly bushings but I forgot to bookmark it. I'll search again.
Ron

[JeepKat]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jim B:
it took some creative ass kissing [/quote]

Would you care to elaborate on that?......

[Jim B]

Kat,

I'm beginning to understand why I must use the correct meanings of the English language around here.

Ron,

This is why I have always had concerns about using any type of poly bushing.
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/1701/bushings.htm

The old rubber stock bushing might have a short life for what we are doing. It might last longer for others and for others not. I guess our hobby will always be, "pay as you go".

If anyone else reads the above link and has a different experience from my concerns, please share it.

Jim B.

97TJ El Niño, Mods listed on Web Site.
JJB@worldoversea.com
http://www.jeep.worldoversea.com
Jeep Rater Score: 42

[William]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jim B:
RE tried to experiment with a bushing that had a void (space) in one of the sides. I guess they did this for more flex. Well it flexed alright, right off the center support. [/quote]


Jim,


My current RE bushings have this void. Should I be concerned? Granted I don't wheel as hard or as intense as you, however, can this be a problem?

R/
William
Insert witty statement here.
Ask me about my feelings about squirells.