Heeeeeelllllpp! Crown Molding

[Jeeper]

This is getting frustrating!!! My Jeeps not done, only a roll cage and skids to go, my pool installation is not going as planned due to all the rain we received lately, my new business venture went south, and I can't get this freaking crown molding done because I can't figure out the dang corner angles!!!

I know a few of you can help. I can't figure out the outside and inside corner angles for installing crown molding. What the heck is the trick? Once that's done, what do I use to fill in the gap on the bottom when I have bull-nose corners? Aaaarrrggghhhh!

Stumped!

Jeeper

[TObject]

Is this a dentistry question?

[DsrtJeeper]

If i'm thinking correctly; you are making this more difficult than it has to be. Set your saw up for 45 degree cuts. Practice on a piece of scrap first as how to measure your lengths.

Fill in the gap with color matched caulk from Home Depot.

Let me guess....Your wife thought the molding would look cute? Christopher Lowell will have you by the cahonies if he sees your designing skills!

[Jeeper]

Kind of...

I think Washington had Wood dental features right?

However, I don't think his profile would look all that great in my family room.

I'm trying to avoid using a coping saw for the internal corners and the angles on the outside corners is making me nuts.

Jeeper

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by Jeeper
This is getting frustrating!!! My Jeeps not done, only a roll cage and skids to go, my pool installation is not going as planned due to all the rain we received lately, my new business venture went south, and I can't get this freaking crown molding done because I can't figure out the dang corner angles!!!

I know a few of you can help. I can't figure out the outside and inside corner angles for installing crown molding. What the heck is the trick? Once that's done, what do I use to fill in the gap on the bottom when I have bull-nose corners? Aaaarrrggghhhh!

Stumped!

Jeeper

The first trick to cutting crown molding is to cut it upside down and backwards on a chopsaw.

You measure to the short point on every corner, inside or out.

We used to cut a block exactly 10" long for the beginners who can't read a tape curled into the corner just yet. Run your tape to the inside corner on one side, stick the block against the corner and read the end of the block, add 10" and go.

You measure the short point because you have no control over the variances in the overall width of the molding. If you measure to the long point, you have no way of knowing where it's going to be in the corner, but you always know where the short point is.

Lay the molding in the saw at the exact angle that it lays on the wall. Typically most crown has 90 degree opposed flat surfaces one against the wall and the other against the ceiling. Those will be used on the saw the same way, but upside down. That puts the short point up on top against the fence.

If your fence is not tall enough, screw some MDF or other straight dense wood to it until it is. If you do this, immediately make two opposing 45 degree cuts in it to clear out the center.

Most normal corners are approximately 90 degrees. Set your saw to cut slightly less than 45. That brings the face of the moulding sides of the two cuts closer together and slows down the back edge of the cut from contacting each other and holding the face open and leaving a gap.

Rare is the moulding that is milled perfectly. Get good at puttying the gaps, there will be some. If it's paint grade, use painters caulking and lightweight spackle.

If it's stain grade, use the wax sticks in the right color after it's stained and finished. Easier to match the color and you can polish the wax with a smooth rag until the shine matches the finish luster.

Keep your fingers away from all moving saw blades. There is a finger shortage in the world and we need everyone to keep as many of them as possible in working order.

[Jeeper]

Originally posted by DsrtJeeper
If i'm thinking correctly; you are making this more difficult than it has to be. Set your saw up for 45 degree cuts. Practice on a piece of scrap first as how to measure your lengths.

Fill in the gap with color matched caulk from Home Depot.

Let me guess....Your wife thought the molding would look cute? Christopher Lowell will have you by the cahonies if he sees your designing skills!

That works for base boards and chair rails but crown molding has a compound angle at the corners. The 45 degree cut doesn't work unfortunately. You can cope the inside corners but I'm using MDF not real wood so the the coping doesn't really come out that well so I want to avoid that.

I'm useless sometimes

Jeeper

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by Jeeper
That works for base boards and chair rails but crown molding has a compound angle at the corners. The 45 degree cut doesn't work unfortunately. You can cope the inside corners but I'm using MDF not real wood so the the coping doesn't really come out that well so I want to avoid that.

I'm useless sometimes

Jeeper

Look up

[Darrell C]

There is no perfect answer. Trust me, I've been there. I've done interior remodeling at one time, including making custom kitchen cabinets.

Blaine's instructions are about the best I could offer, so I won't bother retyping them. Compound miters are challenging, and what confuses many people is that both angles at 45 deg will not work.

[DsrtJeeper]

Originally posted by Jeeper
That works for base boards and chair rails but crown molding has a compound angle at the corners. The 45 degree cut doesn't work unfortunately. You can cope the inside corners but I'm using MDF not real wood so the the coping doesn't really come out that well so I want to avoid that.

I'm useless sometimes

Jeeper

OK.....Christopher Lowell will be biatch slapping me for forgetting what crown molding is!

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by Darrell C
There is no perfect answer. Trust me, I've been there. I've done interior remodeling at one time, including making custom kitchen cabinets.

Blaine's instructions are about the best I could offer, so I won't bother retyping them. Compound miters are challenging, and what confuses many people is that both angles at 45 deg will not work.

He's confused on the compound miter because of the angle the moulding sits on the wall at.

If you lay it in the saw at the angle it sits on the wall, half the compound is removed and you only cut regular angles.

Compound would be if you laid it flat on the saw table and had to tilt the blade over at an angle and cut through the material at another angle.

I know you know this Darrell, I just don't want to confuse Jeeper.

[rolled1]

Originally posted by Jeeper
This is getting frustrating!!! My Jeeps not done, only a roll cage and skids to go, my pool installation is not going as planned due to all the rain we received lately, my new business venture went south, and I can't get this freaking crown molding done because I can't figure out the dang corner angles!!!

I know a few of you can help. I can't figure out the outside and inside corner angles for installing crown molding. What the heck is the trick? Once that's done, what do I use to fill in the gap on the bottom when I have bull-nose corners? Aaaarrrggghhhh!

Stumped!

Jeeper

I found this site to maybe help a little bit. Its also best to do with a nail gun.



http://www.compoundmiter.com/chart.html#cr-mld-table

[NAILER341]

this is much easier than you are making it out to be.
here is the deal.
set up all pieces of crown so that the detail is on the same side. measure each wall in your room, and write the measurement on the wall high enough for the crown to cover it.

cut a couple of pieces for inside corners, and a couple of pieces for outside corners [if needed] number them 1,2,3,4.

generally the crown is at a 45* angle to the wall. if this is the case, set a reasonably short piece on your chop saw. [apx 3']

hold the piece at the desired angle just as if the inside corner of the chop saw was your ceiling.

once you have it in there nice, take and mark the top and bottom of the crown on the chopsaw with your pencil. [writing on the metal]

now you cut the pieces i listed above. 2 inside, and 2 outside corners.
be sure you hold it nice and tight on the lines you drew on the saw.

now you can use those pieces to help you determine, and remember the angles you need for each cut.

start on one wall, and go right around the room.

you must be sure that the mark you make on the crown is at the longest point of the cut. right on the very tip of the detail.. otherwise you'll lose a blade width or maybe more.

i have installed thousands of feet of this stuff. this is the easiest way to get it done right, and quickly.

use an air nailer to install it. dont even bother with a hammer, and nail set. if you dont have one, rent one.
the hammer and nail set will move the crown all over the place and really **** you off.

another tip is to have a 1.5" ridgid blade putty knife in your bags to help pry the pieces together to align them.
once aligned... shoot it.

splices need to be glued. try not to have splices though. they always detract from the look.

i hope this helps.

[NAILER341]

oh, i forgot to mention that starting in one direction and working around the room takes the guesswork out of it.
it will be the same series of 2 cuts for each piece.

cut the right side of the crown, then swing the saw to the opposite 45* and cut the other.

swing the saw back where it was before you walk away, and do it again on the next piece.

this is why it is important to have the crown all placed on the floor with the detail facing the same direction.

[Darrell C]

Hum, Blaine's response:

Originally posted by mrblaine
The first trick to cutting crown molding is to cut it upside down and backwards on a chopsaw.

You measure to the short point on every corner, inside or out.

We used to cut a block exactly 10" long for the beginners who can't read a tape curled into the corner just yet. Run your tape to the inside corner on one side, stick the block against the corner and read the end of the block, add 10" and go.

You measure the short point because you have no control over the variances in the overall width of the molding. If you measure to the long point, you have no way of knowing where it's going to be in the corner, but you always know where the short point is.

Lay the molding in the saw at the exact angle that it lays on the wall. Typically most crown has 90 degree opposed flat surfaces one against the wall and the other against the ceiling. Those will be used on the saw the same way, but upside down. That puts the short point up on top against the fence.

If your fence is not tall enough, screw some MDF or other straight dense wood to it until it is. If you do this, immediately make two opposing 45 degree cuts in it to clear out the center.

Most normal corners are approximately 90 degrees. Set your saw to cut slightly less than 45. That brings the face of the moulding sides of the two cuts closer together and slows down the back edge of the cut from contacting each other and holding the face open and leaving a gap.

Rare is the moulding that is milled perfectly. Get good at puttying the gaps, there will be some. If it's paint grade, use painters caulking and lightweight spackle.

If it's stain grade, use the wax sticks in the right color after it's stained and finished. Easier to match the color and you can polish the wax with a smooth rag until the shine matches the finish luster.

Keep your fingers away from all moving saw blades. There is a finger shortage in the world and we need everyone to keep as many of them as possible in working order.

Followed by Erik's response:

Originally posted by NAILER34
this is much easier than you are making it out to be.
here is the deal.
set up all pieces of crown so that the detail is on the same side. measure each wall in your room, and write the measurement on the wall high enough for the crown to cover it.

cut a couple of pieces for inside corners, and a couple of pieces for outside corners [if needed] number them 1,2,3,4.

generally the crown is at a 45* angle to the wall. if this is the case, set a reasonably short piece on your chop saw. [apx 3']

hold the piece at the desired angle just as if the inside corner of the chop saw was your ceiling.

once you have it in there nice, take and mark the top and bottom of the crown on the chopsaw with your pencil. [writing on the metal]

now you cut the pieces i listed above. 2 inside, and 2 outside corners.
be sure you hold it nice and tight on the lines you drew on the saw.

now you can use those pieces to help you determine, and remember the angles you need for each cut.

start on one wall, and go right around the room.

you must be sure that the mark you make on the crown is at the longest point of the cut. right on the very tip of the detail.. otherwise you'll lose a blade width or maybe more.

i have installed thousands of feet of this stuff. this is the easiest way to get it done right, and quickly.

use an air nailer to install it. dont even bother with a hammer, and nail set. if you dont have one, rent one.
the hammer and nail set will move the crown all over the place and really **** you off.

another tip is to have a 1.5" ridgid blade putty knife in your bags to help pry the pieces together to align them.
once aligned... shoot it.

splices need to be glued. try not to have splices though. they always detract from the look.

i hope this helps.

oh, i forgot to mention that starting in one direction and working around the room takes the guesswork out of it.
it will be the same series of 2 cuts for each piece.

cut the right side of the crown, then swing the saw to the opposite 45* and cut the other.

swing the saw back where it was before you walk away, and do it again on the next piece.

this is why it is important to have the crown all placed on the floor with the detail facing the same direction.

Yep, seems pretty simple to me

[NAILER341]

there are a number of ways to skin a cat.
blaines method is the traditional method.
i know my way works, i have been doing it like this for years, and run many thousands of feet of moulding with this method.

[NAILER341]

oh, this is where my user name is derived from

[Jeeper]

Whew! thanks everyone! I think I have it now. I believe I was trying to make this much more complicated than it actually is. I'm glad I bought about 20% more than I actually need....I figured I'd have to experiment some!

I'll give it a shot tomorrow and let you know how it goes. BTW, is a backing board really necessary or can I get by with 6P finish nails in the studs?

Jeeper

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by Jeeper
Whew! thanks everyone! I think I have it now. I believe I was trying to make this much more complicated than it actually is. I'm glad I bought about 20% more than I actually need....I figured I'd have to experiment some!

I'll give it a shot tomorrow and let you know how it goes. BTW, is a backing board really necessary or can I get by with 6P finish nails in the studs?

Jeeper

Brad nailer. Do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars and don't do finish work without air nailguns.

[Jays89YJ]

Originally posted by mrblaine


Rare is the moulding that is milled perfectly. Get good at puttying the gaps, there will be some. If it's paint grade, use painters caulking and lightweight spackle.

This is true. I'd say it's even more rare the walls are exactly perpendicular and completely flat. Especially if the house is older. Great tips though!

[Jeff Weston]

Originally posted by NAILER341
oh, this is where my user name is derived from

Where was TILER341 when I was re-doing my bathroom? (laying tile in the next bathroom this weekend)

[mudpup]

no help with the crown molding, but for some reason I was just thinking man I never saw any trail pics of Jeeper...hurry up and get that beast done and thanks again for help way back when you helped on high steer info.

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by Jeff Weston
Where was TILER341 when I was re-doing my bathroom? (laying tile in the next bathroom this weekend)

You shoulda said something. I just gave away about a thousand bucks worth of floats, notched trowels, spacers, poppers, putty knifes, trowels, sponges, grout floats, and chalk lines I used to use when I set tile.

The bucket was a little short on expertise, you gotta round that one up yourself.

[Jeff Weston]

I didn't do diddly going into the first one and just dove right in. There weren't too many complex cuts, though I did set the tiles at 45* which did add a bit to it. As for tools, for about $140 I was able to get everything I needed, including a tile saw. People compain about cheap Chinese imports, but damn, that $80 wet tile saw from Home Depot is pretty tough to beat for small jobs.

The silly thing is that I've been putting off these projects until now that I'm looking to sell. Go figure.

[Darrell C]

Originally posted by Jeff Weston
I didn't do diddly going into the first one and just dove right in. There weren't too many complex cuts, though I did set the tiles at 45* which did add a bit to it. As for tools, for about $140 I was able to get everything I needed, including a tile saw. People compain about cheap Chinese imports, but damn, that $80 wet tile saw from Home Depot is pretty tough to beat for small jobs.

The silly thing is that I've been putting off these projects until now that I'm looking to sell. Go figure.

A wet saw is darn near a must for most cutting, with the little tile nibblers handling the odd shapes (like around pipe holes, etc).

Biggest things in tile, IMO, is preparing the base, layout (to avoid very small sections at the edges) and laying the thinset a consistent thickness. Those little tile spacers are great, and many folks grout right over them, but I remove them to get thicker grout at the joints.

I also like to use through color tile for heavy traffic areas. Prevents chipping the tile and seeing the base color come through.

[NAILER341]

i have a real tile saw you can use if you like. it cuts like butta'

[Jeff Weston]

Originally posted by Darrell C
A wet saw is darn near a must for most cutting, with the little tile nibblers handling the odd shapes (like around pipe holes, etc).

Biggest things in tile, IMO, is preparing the base, layout (to avoid very small sections at the edges) and laying the thinset a consistent thickness. Those little tile spacers are great, and many folks grout right over them, but I remove them to get thicker grout at the joints.

I also like to use through color tile for heavy traffic areas. Prevents chipping the tile and seeing the base color come through.

I carefully measure the room and input in CAD, then layout the tiles in the drawing until it looks right. The only time I'll have to use the nibblers for this bathroom are around the toilet drain. This one really will be a slam dunk.

If I were to do tile professionally or on a larger scale I'd opt for a better saw, but figured I could do two bathrooms and give away the saw and be ahead of the game.

Sorry for the crown molding to tile hijack!

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by NAILER341
i have a real tile saw you can use if you like. it cuts like butta'

Target or MK?

[NAILER341]

Originally posted by mrblaine
Target or MK?

mk

[Darrell C]

Originally posted by NAILER341
mk

Have one myself. Great saw.

[Darrell C]

Originally posted by Jeff Weston
I carefully measure the room and input in CAD, then layout the tiles in the drawing until it looks right. The only time I'll have to use the nibblers for this bathroom are around the toilet drain. This one really will be a slam dunk.

If I were to do tile professionally or on a larger scale I'd opt for a better saw, but figured I could do two bathrooms and give away the saw and be ahead of the game.

Sorry for the crown molding to tile hijack!

Whoa, pretty high tech. I just made a layout stick that included the grout joint spaces to calculate my start point. Then again,with something as small as a bathroom, you can just lay it out on the floor and shift it around to figure the start point.

Bathroom layout is pretty easy, just don't drop the toilet like I did and bust it...then again, good excuse to replace it with an extra tall potty.