Locking diffs for a WJ?

[emdub]

Does anyone know of locking diffs for a WJ? I've searched around for some wisdom about this, but so far very little info on the possibility of getting at least a rear one on my WJ. I got ****ed off today at a hill I couldn't climb...

[Jerry Bransford]

Originally posted by emdub
Does anyone know of locking diffs for a WJ? I've searched around for some wisdom about this, but so far very little info on the possibility of getting at least a rear one on my WJ. I got ****ed off today at a hill I couldn't climb...

This depends on which axle you have in the rear of your WJ. At least in the U.S., the Dana 44 that goes into V8 Grand Cherokees has an aluminum housing which makes it, so far as I know, incompatible with most anything designed for a standard Dana 44. Can you determine which axle you have?

[emdub]

I'm sorry for the probably very basic question, but how do I identify what dif I have? Is it written somewhere? Is it on the Dif? I don't have the Jeep at the moment (installing a new steering bar with ball joints).

As soon as I get it back I'll have a look. I believe, though, that this model is the same as the American one excepting the original suspension, which I don't have any more.

[Robert J. Yates]

While I am not familiar with that axle, but I would assume that since it is a Dana product, it should have an ID tag secured by 2 diff cover bolts. Get the numbers off that and post them up.

[speaceman]

Originally posted by emdub
Does anyone know of locking diffs for a WJ? I've searched around for some wisdom about this, but so far very little info on the possibility of getting at least a rear one on my WJ. I got ****ed off today at a hill I couldn't climb...

You have unfortunatly reached the dilemma that most people who wheel ZJ/Wjs off road (on anything more than a fire road) eventually reach.

Either you have the Dana 35, which according to most people, is a time bomb, or you have the 44, which is stout enough, but reduces your traction options to a trac-loc.

Let me just tell you, been there, done that.

Your options are as follows:

1. Leave everything the way it is, and just suck it up when you can't make it up those hills because your trac-loc blows.

2. If you have the dana 35, you can try the super 35 kit. Depending on who you talk to, it is either great or it sucks, but it will give you stronger axle shafts and a locker. Conventional wisdom suggests you truss your 35 somehow. There are various options for this. Or you can do an axle swap if you feel your super 35 won't be beefy enough. See below.

3. If you have the aluminum 44 (most likely if you have a V8), then you are looking at an axle swap if you want a traction device in back.

Various axles to look into are: You can buy a used axle from a wrecking yard such as a ford 8.8 from a newer model explorer, a dana 44 from a YJ, TJ or even an Older Cherokee. Or you can purchase axles from after market suppliers like Currie or Dynatrax. Currie offers Ford 9 inch axles and Dynatrax will build you a dana 44 or 60 axle.

All of the above will require some research and you will have to figure out how to deal with the issue of welding the brackets correctly on the new axle you are swapping in. (Some shops who do axle swaps will do this for you but it costs $$$).

All of the above is just a brief overview of what you are looking at. Many offroad internet boards have lots of info posted about such swaps. Good luck.

[speaceman]

Wow.. I didn't notice you are in Portugul. Do you actually live there? If so, you may be okay. I know overseas models (at least in South America) on the ZJ and XJ got all steel axles. Hopefully, this is true for your WJ also. In which case, you most likely have a Dana 44, where you would have lots of options for lockers. Anything from detroit lockers to ARB air lockers.

If you live in the states, or have a North American WJ that was shipped over to you in Portugul or European WJs are the same as American, then everything I wrote in my previous post will apply to you (except for being able to find a shop that does axle swaps. I have no idea who you will find in portugal to do that stuff for you).

[Paradiddle]

There is one thing that I'll amend to Shalom's list of options - the factory quadra drive geroter thingymabob. Basically it's an oil actuated "soft locker" type of deal.

I bought a WJ with quadra drive - the front never got tight enough to work so I put an ARB in (major bucks due to requireing new axles) but I left the rear quadra drive "lcoker" in place. I never wheeled anything harder than John Bull in Big Bear - which for a WJ on 32's is light-medium hard, but that rear quadra drive NEVER slipped on me. I was happy.

If you put one into your WJ Al44 you will need to replace both your axles (or have one cut down about .5") - the quadra drive pinion is off center due to the oil pump - one axle is longer than an open D44 and one is shorter. You can get all these parts from Jeep or Dana (the quadra drive is probably only available from Jeep).

If you plan to get nasty with your WJ I'd spend the money to get an iron D44 or Currie 9, or something and set it up properly - not cheap but a much better long run axle option.

There was some talk about a severely beaten Al D44 having tube flex where the axle tubes connect to the aluminum center section - I think Mike Palmer (papromike) complained to me once about his rearend being flexy on his ZJ. The actual gears in the WJ rearend are the same as a Viper and are very thick and strong - never in the two years on the JU Grand board did I hear of one person breaking their WJ gears - but I suspect no one over there was playing hard enough.

Just more food for thought - but as Shalom said your South American WJ may have a real axle underneath it.

Jeff

[emdub]

After having spent 5 minutes under my WJ I haven't reached any conclusions as to what dif I have. It does look like iron and not aluminum though. Right at the beginning I had some noisy problems with my rear dif due to improper oil in the dif (or so the dealer claims). Everything was substituted without questions, along with the little plate that I'm supoosed to be looking for that states what dif is on the WJ. In other words I'll have to find another V8 to get under to find the plate. (rare here in Portugal, which is Europe btw, not South America! ;-)).

Can anybody advise me on a way to test my Quadra Drive to verify if it really is working? I had so many difficulties on that little uphill it was ridiculous. As soon as one wheel went in the air, that was it.

I have no pics of myself trying to do the climb (I'm the one taking them!) but you can see the uphill I'm talking about here (It's the first 17 photos):

http://homepage.mac.com/emdub/Albuns/PhotoAlbum43.html

[Jerry Bransford]

Emdub, are you sure you have Quadradrive and not Quadratrac? There's a huge difference in how the two work. One wheel in the air shouldn't have affected you in the least if you have Quadradrive.

[speaceman]

Hey Emdub,

Like I said before, it is kind of hard for us to help you out since we have no idea what Jeep puts under WJs that are destined to Europe.

Is there a phone number to Jeep/Chrysler Europe that you can call and ask? Maybe it is listed in your jeep's manual?

You can at least stick a magnet to your rear pumpkin (not the cover or the axle tubes) and see if the magnet sticks.

If it does not, you have the aluminum 44

If it does, you either have a Dana 35 or an Iron 44.

There are a couple of websites around that have pictures of what a 35 looks like and what a 44 looks like (although I can't remember which ones they are. Anyone else have a link?)

I'd really just call chrysler Europe and ask what axles ship with WJs. That would probably be easiest.

[Bruce David]

Emdub,
Go to http://jeepwrangler.info/Tech/drivet...lequipment.htm

and look at the bottom it has a picture of a 44..

[emdub]

Wow! I'm impressed and "drunk" with everybodys knowledge and willingness to help!

I had tried the Jeep's manual but theres no info on the type of differential I have. Asking the dealer here isn't much help, I've found that on some subjects I know more than they do about the car... not very trust inspiring!

The magnet idea was excellent, it's the simple things that make the difference and that we usually forget! Tested it, and yes, I've got a steel diff. Had to get some of the mud off, but it did stick! Then from the link Bruce sent I identified my diff: I've got a Dana 44! Looks like there is hope!

As soon as I have some free time I'll start searching for solutions on the net.... but if someone can point me in the riht directions it'll be easier.

[emdub]

... ah, I forgot: about the quadra drive.

here in Europe we don't have too many options on Jeeps. When I bought my WJ at the time it had to be a Limited (as opposed to Laredo) and it had to have Quadra Drive and Trac. Quadra Trac is just their name for 4x4 anyway...

Now I think there are more options, but I'm sure mine has both systems. What I'd like to find out is if there is any "simple" way for me to test it's full functionality since there are no warning lights or anything.

[emdub]

Damn! My VERY big wrong!

I was putting the magnet on the wrong part of the diff. It is aluminum casing. I also got down all the info I could find on the diff after cleaning it:

On the center it has: Dana 48174 3409 Rev G 7/15/97

On the side on a plate I didn't see before it has: 75W140SYN FRIC MOD 402

Sorry for the confusion.

[speaceman]

Well, with the Aluminum 44, you locker options are nil.

Pretty much, you have to decide to keep it the way it is and just deal (which several people that we know who wheel WJs did for quite awhile) or you are going to have to figure out an axle swap.

I have no idea what axles you will be able to get in Portugal, but here are some ideas.

If Jeep Cherokees (XJ), the older squarer Jeep SUV were sold in Portugul, I know overseas Cherokees came with Steel Dana 44s.

So you can try and find one in a junkyard or go to junkyards to find a Dana 44.

Also, I don't know what they are called in Europe, but Izuzu Rodeos and Honda Passports have Dana 44 axles underneath them.

There are lots of ford cars and trucks that had either Ford 8.8 axles or ford 9 inch axles underneath them, but I have no idea which ones were sold in Europe.

You could probably start calling junkyards and asking what types of axles they have lying around. Of course you are going to have to figure out what to do about the brackets. You will either have to order heavy duty brackets or you will have to cut off your old ones and correctly weld them onto your new axle.

Most likely, if you find someone who has done this or does this regularly, they will know where to find axles.

Good luck.

[emdub]

Thanks to everybody for the input and ideas. I think I'll keep the WJ as it is due to the aparent complexity of the upgrade I want. It's very hard to find someone here in Portugal interested in doing the sort of things you guys talk about (axle swaps, soldering new bits on, adapting old parts etc.). It's all very "complicated". It's also VERY hard to find parts for Jeeps in junkyards, actually I doubt I'd find any. I pass about 4 junkyards on my way to the office and not one of them has a single Jeep or 4x4 in it.

I'll just wait around until someone comes up with a locker for this diff... Like I did for the lift kit. I think it'll eventualy happen, just a matter of patience. Meanwhile I'll just have to shrug it off and say "maybe next time" when all the other locking 4x4's go by me...

[speaceman]

I'm not saying it won't happen, but I think you may be waiting awhile. The Aluminum 44 has been around since 95, and no one has tried to touch it as far as figuring out putting a locker in it.

Are you sure your tracloc is working correctly? Mine stopped working correctly after 18,000 miles and maybe 7-8 offroading trips.

After that point, it would only work when it felt like it, and I had major problems on hill climbs.

If it is not working and you are under warranty, maybe you can get the dealership to spring for a new tracloc.

Also, what is your driving style? I found it helped to make it up things if I feathered the brakes while applying the gas slightly. This would get the tracloc to engage and would help me up stuff. You can also acheive this effect by pulling your parking brake up 2 or 3 clicks (don't forget to release the parking brake after you have made your climb).

Anyway, good luck. All of us who drive ZJ/WJs know how you feel.