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Old 08-13-2002, 11:25 AM
Dan-H Dan-H is offline
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Things I learned this weekend...

Everytime I learn something new, it is a good thing. This weekend gave me many opportunities to learn many things.

I'll get some pics up and a better story, but here is another angle I wanted to share first.

To put this in perspective, we started our day at 4:30 am doing safety checks for the run. We had only gotten about 2 hours sleep because of a SNAFU with the 360 lunches that we had to correct before the run... We had expected a long day since we would be assisting the drag crew (aka the tail gunner), but not this long of a day.

Sierra Trek ( fordyce creek trail ) can be run in 8 hours, even with a lunch break, if the pace is decent and no-one gets seriously hung up for a really long time, or if there is no traffic jams from someone else ahead of you hung up.

On a busy trip like this, 12 to 14 hours is more likely for those near the back of the line.

We did it at a slighly slower rate. 33 hours, including a 4 hour sleep period between 3am and 7am on day 2.

Some of the things I learned:

1) I will get and carry spare a CPS (crank position sensor). I need to find out if this is a YJ thing or if it affects all 4.0Ls, but 2 failed that weekend. one at the connector and one in the sensor. The connector can be trail fixed, but the sensor cannot. We bypassed the connector but we still had no spark.

Apparenly this is common but its the first I've heard of it. As we towed and winched the YJ off the hill several folks asked if we checked the CPS. If I had a spare for my TJ, and if it fit the YJ. then our friend may have been able to drive off the trail, but then again there was that fuel issue...

2) I learned how to diagnose a no fuel condition and that the 2001 TJ FSM applies to the fuel system of the 94 YJ 4.0. On the trail we traced the problem to the pump, verified voltage to the pump. With 1/2 of a tank and no empty gas cans, and a narrow window to get off the trail before the saturday trail run, no spark and no fuel were enough for us to throw in the towel and just tough it out by winching and strapping it home.

3) Back in camp I learned how to repair a damaged fuel pump. I didn't help, since there were plenty of cooks in the kitchen but by watching and noting what they were doing I saw it would be easy to do this again with basic tools and some RTV that can withstand fuel. (needed because the tank gasket will likely not survive). The other thing I learned is you need somewhere to put the fuel to do this.

Oh, btw, on the way back to camp someone saw the YJ in tow and handed us a CPS. Once in we had one of the 2 missing ingredients for a happy motor so the repairs were mostly getting fuel to the injectors.

On the recovery itself, I learned:

4) it is damn hard to strap or winch a YJ with absolutely no power. If it gets steep and loose, or when the bolders come along it is very very hard to keep any forward progress going.

5) I re-learned the value of 1/2 length tow straps and double tow straps to get the towing rig in a better spot when the dead rig gets stuck.

6) I realized having a single recovery rig makes it very time consuming when both strapping and winching are required on a tight narrow trail. The setup time to turn around and position the vehicle to be able to winch is alot, and then to turn back around to put on the strap is also alot.

Having 2 may have cut the time down significantly since the winch rig could back up the trail and the tow rig could move along faced forward. When we reached the end of the trail, additional winch rigs were recruited and this greatly increased the speed of forward progress.

7) IMPORTANT I learned that if the dead rig is completely dead, do not waste the battery on anything but the starter motor. When strapping, sometimes one foot or six inches of forward progress up over a bolder is all the assistance the towing rig needs to keep both rigs moving again. The starter is much more effective than the winch when only a few inches are needed, but once the starter has no juice alot more rock stacking is needed to keep things moving.

8) I learned how to rewire a smoked winch when the winch controller gets eaten by the rope.

9) I learned to put in a guide on the winch to keep the controller away from the fairlead when standing on the passenger side.

Finally there are some other lessons, and in the end, these may be the most important lessons.

when you are really friggin tired from almost no sleep and have spent the last 5 hours winching, stacking, strapping, (repeat) your patience is very low and you want one thing, and that is to just get off the damn trail safely with no additional damage to either rig, period.

As such, I learned if I come across others in a similar situtation (eg. I'm an on looker) I will do only one thing. Wait until a good time to ask one person involved if they need anything in the way of assistance be it supplies, help, water, rock staking or whatever. If the answer is no, I'll say OK, let me know if something comes up, otherwise I'll just watch from the sidelines.

The countless offers of assistance in terms of "do this" or "have you tried that" became tiresome and at times distracting when the focus was winching someone up up a critical section.

I also learned that I need to do a better job of communicating with friends what the objective is, what they can do and how, when they come along and offer assistance. Often there is nothing that can be done other than stay out of harms way and not distracti those involved, while at other times there are ways to help.

Also, there is a time and a place to try to suggest fixing a dead rig or asking what repairs have been tried, but it is certainly NOT the right time when the dead rig is at the end of a cable being dead towed up a steep loose tippy hill.

We had had already spent 4 or 5 hours diagnosing the problems, and at that point the single objective was to get it off the trail to fix later. However, given the heat and the fatigue, I'm sure I did not communicate this very well as the did you try this and that suggestions and what's wrong questions just kept coming in. I'll need to work on how to communicate this better next time.

Maybe some chats ahead of time would be good to suggest a good and a bad time for walking up to the winch vehicle to see how things are going and offering advice. Maybe I just need to work on my people skills I suppose times like this really fit the statement in Blaine's sig:

"If you are among friends, everything else works itself out.......said by Tim"

In the end we made it back safely with alot of memories and some lessons learned to for next time...

- Dan
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Old 08-13-2002, 11:36 AM
Paradiddle Paradiddle is offline
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I must have missed the thread where you mentioned what trail you were on.

Jeff
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Old 08-13-2002, 11:41 AM
Dan-H Dan-H is offline
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I'm sorry. It was fordyce creek trail, and the event was Sierra Trek. I edited this in above.
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Old 08-13-2002, 12:10 PM
mrblaine mrblaine is offline
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Dan, you have my deepest sympathies if I am reading between the lines correctly.

A lot of times I have the solution very clear in my head and am unable to relate it to those around me. Makes for a large troublesome internal conflict that manifests itself as crankiness. Not my intention, but sometimes it just happens.

I am glad you made it and all is mostly well.
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Old 08-13-2002, 12:39 PM
Dan-H Dan-H is offline
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I tend to not keep my internal conflicts internal, and eventually tend to tell people where to go... but yes, you read between the lines correctly.

all did end up well. after a few hours of wrenching ( or in my case sitting in a chair watching the wrenching) the YJ was running again and I assume made it all the way home under its own power.
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Old 08-13-2002, 01:30 PM
Bruce David Bruce David is offline
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Sounds like a tough time as for the CPS defiantly carry a spare.
I carry 2 because of past failures.

Just out of curiosity, was the YJ red ?
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Old 08-13-2002, 01:41 PM
Dan-H Dan-H is offline
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White YJ
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Old 08-13-2002, 02:08 PM
Paradiddle Paradiddle is offline
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We had an "experience" with a white YJ this weekend on the Rubicon.

Jeff
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Old 08-13-2002, 02:09 PM
TJRON TJRON is offline
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I learned something this weekend too! My son can be a PIA at times.
We did an overnight trail and had a great time. We stopped to explore a mine about 30 miles from Mesquite, NV and his battery blew up. It didn't make a mess 'cause there was hardly any water in it, duh. We removed the battery and tried to jump start it several times and it wanted to fire but just wouldn't. The only thing I knew to do was put my spare CPS, on and pray.
We did that and it started up. Right when I was feeling like a hero for having the spare CPS it died. He then told me he had not given it any gas when first attempting to start it and it didn't need the CPS just some gas pedal. I thought it kind of dumb that he wouldn't try giving it gas when it wouldn't start but I guess he's mostly had electric ignition cars and just knows not to give them gas when starting! We rigged some extra throttle stop so it would idle. After a few miles he stops and says his volt meter is pegged and his buddy just told him on the cell phone not to run it without the battery or **** will happen. I doubt this but off we went 30 miles of fast road to the nearest town (not on the way home) for a battery. In town Tom realized he locked the keys in the car. Off we went 100 miles home for his keys and a battery.
With the new battery the Jeep ran normal. At least it was only 4 or 5 hours of totally preventable BS not like Dan's day!
Ron
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Old 08-13-2002, 03:24 PM
cbassett cbassett is offline
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quite the trip Dan!

Add an ignition coil to your list. I've gone through 2 coils in the past 3 trips. They're a notorious failure point on the ZJ, but $25-50 investment into your "oh sh*t" TJ box is good insurance on a failure that'll keep you from going anywhere.
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Old 08-13-2002, 04:20 PM
Dan-H Dan-H is offline
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Chris, only one ignition coil? My TJ has 3

the 00 and later 4.0 went to a coil-on-plug design with 3 coils. If it fails I'm screwed. I bet its a $100+ dealer only part too.
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Old 08-13-2002, 09:12 PM
Stu Olson Stu Olson is offline
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What Bruce forgt to mention was to NOT purchase your spare coil from AutoZone!
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Old 08-14-2002, 09:09 AM
John John is offline
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I just saw one on ebay for like $40.

Quote:
Originally posted by Dan-H
Chris, only one ignition coil? My TJ has 3

the 00 and later 4.0 went to a coil-on-plug design with 3 coils. If it fails I'm screwed. I bet its a $100+ dealer only part too.
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Old 08-14-2002, 11:57 AM
cbassett cbassett is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dan-H
Chris, only one ignition coil? My TJ has 3

the 00 and later 4.0 went to a coil-on-plug design with 3 coils. If it fails I'm screwed. I bet its a $100+ dealer only part too.
wholy crap! forgot yours is a newer TJ. Well I hope the new configuration is improved. Buying those suckers every other trip is a sure recipe for becoming a Toy 4x4 owner.
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