What would you do in this situation?

[cbassett]

Blaine put it very well, difficult to improve upon any statement in his post.

The whole sin thing bothers me. Without starting a flamewar, I'll just leave it at stating that having sex with one of the same sex is very low on the list of sins that occur/are condoned by and large by society today.

His sexlife is none of your business, plain and simple. However, guys being guys, we wanna know who's zooming who, so you poke and prod him endlessly (no pun intended) until he, having ultimate faith in the strength and bonds of your friendship, confides in you a fact of his life that is very sensitively and still not largely accepted by society (thank the thumpers). Wrought with confusion (sadness?, grief?) you post your best friend's most trusted information on an Internet forum, in search of consolation over something that is really none of your business anyway. That's harsh, but true, git beyond the whole sin crap and recognize that your BF is still your BF regardless of who he's doing in his bedroom.
Oh, and be sure to explain to him the funny looks from other jeepers (the uptight, bible-thumping ones) when you take him on a run.

[TJRON]

I guess I see this situation a little different than most.
If he were my friend, I would probably see him much differently after his "confession". He would not be the same guy he used to be. He has changed. I would now know he likes to do things with other men that make me uncomfortable to say the least.
I would try not to judge him but in all honestly I would probably no longer care to hang with him much. I think we would slowly drift apart, probably with some effort on my part.
I feel life is too short to hang with people that make me uncomfortable.
Of coarse, if I were a bigger man and was comfortable with the situation, things would not change. I hope your more tolerant than I.
I'm stuck with my relatives, but I get to choose my friends.......

I'm not a Christian but it would be nice to live by this prayer:

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
Taking, as He did, this sinful world
as it is, not as I would have it;
Trusting that He will make all things right
if I surrender to His Will;
That I may be reasonably happy in this life
and supremely happy with Him
Forever in the next.
Amen.

just pray for him. you cannot change him, but God can. let him know how you feel, but make sure he know you're still his friend. he's better off having friends like you, than "other" type.

[Tim]

it makes me sad when people try to change one another or throw them away because of their deviance.

hes the same guy.

i hope you let him be who he is without making him feel worse than he does already. i bet it was nearly impossible for him to tell you this.

i have a life long friend that still cant tell me (his family did) he thinks i will be ashamed of him, i wont. i really don't care how he finds companionship as long as it makes him happy. (this has been going on for years)

scott, from what i know of you from jeep boards you seem like a good guy. i'm sure you can live with his choices. you will have to if you want to be his friend.

[Sephiroth]

Scott this is good stuff, next time bring it over to the innovative forum, hell this could get you poster of the month

[speaceman]

I don't have anything really useful to contribute other than the upshot of all of this is more ladies for you when you both go out to hang out in bars.

It always blows my mind to hear about stories like this one. Can you imagine not only deciding that you are unhappy enough that you no longer want to be with your wife but on top of that you realize that you probably should be batting for the other team as well?

I can't even begin to put myself in those shoes. I can't imagine how I would end up deal with a life change of that magnitude.

I guess that is just one more thing for you to take into account when you are examining your own feelings about the whole situation.

[Robert J. Yates]

Originally posted by speaceman
Can you imagine not only deciding that you are unhappy enough that you no longer want to be with your wife but on top of that you realize that you probably should be batting for the other team as well?

Agreed - that is one crazy decision to have rattling around in your head. Sometimes I think its society which pushes folks into that decision, ie its cool to be gay these days (witness Palm Springs ) and sometimes I think its society that prevented them from making it in the first place, ie everybody has to be straight.

[cbassett]

Originally posted by Robert J. Yates
ie its cool to be gay these days (witness Palm Springs )

Explain that for the NorCal contingent please.

[Scott]

Originally posted by cbassett
Blaine put it very well, difficult to improve upon any statement in his post.

The whole sin thing bothers me. Without starting a flamewar, I'll just leave it at stating that having sex with one of the same sex is very low on the list of sins that occur/are condoned by and large by society today.

His sexlife is none of your business, plain and simple. However, guys being guys, we wanna know who's zooming who, so you poke and prod him endlessly (no pun intended) until he, having ultimate faith in the strength and bonds of your friendship, confides in you a fact of his life that is very sensitively and still not largely accepted by society (thank the thumpers). Wrought with confusion (sadness?, grief?) you post your best friend's most trusted information on an Internet forum, in search of consolation over something that is really none of your business anyway. That's harsh, but true, git beyond the whole sin crap and recognize that your BF is still your BF regardless of who he's doing in his bedroom.
Oh, and be sure to explain to him the funny looks from other jeepers (the uptight, bible-thumping ones) when you take him on a run.

Chris,
Thank you for your input. Just so you know, I asked him if I could post this on this board, and he said that was fine, because he knows that Im having a hard time with this (not as hard as him, mind you) and that this board has quite a few people that I trust and admire, to give me some advice on what to do to handle this situation. I am still trying to get my head straight, but I will be there for him 110% no matter what happens with this. He knows I am there for him, and I love him as a friend. The thing that I am not understanding is that he grew up in a christian household, and we always shared the same beliefs on this particular subject, and that is, that you can not be a christian, and practice in the homosexual lifestyle at the same time. This disheartens me, because I still believe this to be true, and that means that my friend Jason is being torn apart from God, and will not go to heaven when he dies. It deeply hurts me to know that. I know that you don't believe the same stuff I do, heck, to be honest, I haven't found a whole lot of "christian" jeepers, and thats just fine, I have fun with the lot of them. Thats just my opinion. Take it for what its worth, which probably isn't much. As far as him going on a trail ride with me, that probably aint happenin... he doesn't like to get dirty.

Tim,
Living with his choices is something I am prepared to do. I know and he knows, that he will always be my best friend, no matter what goes on in either one of our lives. Its just very hard for me to try and accept the fact that he won't be in heaven when he dies... again.. thats my personal belief... I think thats what is bothering me the most, but I guess I need to accept the fact that all I can do is love him and pray for him. Thanks for all the input guys, and keep it coming, if you've got more advice.
Scott

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by Scott
Chris,
Thank you for your input. Just so you know, I asked him if I could post this on this board, and he said that was fine, because he knows that Im having a hard time with this (not as hard as him, mind you) and that this board has quite a few people that I trust and admire, to give me some advice on what to do to handle this situation. I am still trying to get my head straight, but I will be there for him 110% no matter what happens with this. He knows I am there for him, and I love him as a friend. The thing that I am not understanding is that he grew up in a christian household, and we always shared the same beliefs on this particular subject, and that is, that you can not be a christian, and practice in the homosexual lifestyle at the same time. This disheartens me, because I still believe this to be true, and that means that my friend Jason is being torn apart from God, and will not go to heaven when he dies. It deeply hurts me to know that. I know that you don't believe the same stuff I do, heck, to be honest, I haven't found a whole lot of "christian" jeepers, and thats just fine, I have fun with the lot of them. Thats just my opinion. Take it for what its worth, which probably isn't much. As far as him going on a trail ride with me, that probably aint happenin... he doesn't like to get dirty.

Tim,
Living with his choices is something I am prepared to do. I know and he knows, that he will always be my best friend, no matter what goes on in either one of our lives. Its just very hard for me to try and accept the fact that he won't be in heaven when he dies... again.. thats my personal belief... I think thats what is bothering me the most, but I guess I need to accept the fact that all I can do is love him and pray for him. Thanks for all the input guys, and keep it coming, if you've got more advice.
Scott

I am confused. Can you explain the degrees of sin to me?

[Paradiddle]

Tom Waits says there is no Devil only God when he's drunk. Food for thought.

Jeff

[TObject]

Scott, you may want to talk to Reverend V. Gene Robinson, the openly gay bishop from New Hampshire who beleives that different sexual orientations are "part of the magnificence of God's creation." Or to Pastor William Rennick from Joyful Union Congregation in Bellflower, California.

Pastor actually discussed the topic "Was Jesus a homosexual?" in one of his radio programs. He says that anyone who asks for forgiveness and accepts Jesus into his or her heart will go to heaven.

[Jeff Weston]

Originally posted by Scott

The thing that I am not understanding is that he grew up in a christian household, and we always shared the same beliefs on this particular subject, and that is, that you can not be a christian, and practice in the homosexual lifestyle at the same time. This disheartens me, because I still believe this to be true, and that means that my friend Jason is being torn apart from God, and will not go to heaven when he dies.

<snip>

Living with his choices is something I am prepared to do. I know and he knows, that he will always be my best friend, no matter what goes on in either one of our lives. Its just very hard for me to try and accept the fact that he won't be in heaven when he dies... again.. thats my personal belief... I think thats what is bothering me the most, but I guess I need to accept the fact that all I can do is love him and pray for him. Thanks for all the input guys, and keep it coming, if you've got more advice.
Scott

Scott,

What denomination of Christian are you? Do you know any Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, etc.? What happens to them when they die? If only Christians can go to heaven than you should be more concerned about the majority of the world's souls as Christians are a minority. Heck, China and India alone contain 40% or so of the Earth's population.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say how you should feel. Your feelings are real and I'm sure this is quite a shock for you. One thing to consider is that maybe God made your friend homosexual just like he made me left handed. True, it's not "normal", but perhaps it's just a deviation from the norm, natural nonetheless. That may not be popular with everybody and that's fine. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion. If you're uncomfortable being around him then so be it, but there's no need to condemn him to hell.

Switch to Newcastle or Guiness, that Bud Light is making you stress too much!

[fatbob309]

you got mail.

[cbassett]

Originally posted by mrblaine
I am confused. Can you explain the degrees of sin to me?

Add forgiveness to that too.

Or is it just the Catholics that are forgiven all their sins?

[Paradiddle]

Originally posted by Jeff Weston
Switch to Newcastle or Guiness, that Bud Light is making you stress too much!

Now there is some outstanding advice!!!

Jeff

[cbassett]

Now I feel like I have sinned....
I completely overlooked the GUINNESS reference above.
Nectar of the Gods!

CHEERS!!!
(is it lunchtime yet?)

Originally posted by Scott
Its just very hard for me to try and accept the fact that he won't be in heaven when he dies... again.. thats my personal belief...

I personally don't believe one can loose his salvation. Eternal life is a free gift of God to anyone who asks and God doesn't take His gifts back.

You're not saved because you persevere sin and temptations, you persevere because you're saved.

[Instaurare]

Just for the sake of discussion, suppose Scott's gay friend had also confided that he was most attracted to male children. Would any of the above responses have been different?

[fatbob309]

Originally posted by Instaurare
Just for the sake of discussion, suppose Scott's gay friend had also confided that he was most attracted to male children. Would any of the above responses have been different?

I think so because its not "normal" at this point. Pray that it never becomes "normal".

[Instaurare]

I think it was sometime in the 1970's that the American Psychological Assn. changed their previous opinion, that homosexuality was a psychological disorder. This being the case, it is difficult to state with certainty that something which is considered not normal today will indeed be considered as such in the future. It seems to me that what we are looking at here is a kind of creeping incrementalism, where yesterday's taboos become today's mainstream.

[TObject]

Originally posted by Instaurare
Just for the sake of discussion, suppose Scott's gay friend had also confided that he was most attracted to male children. Would any of the above responses have been different?

Duh, it would have been much better if he was most attracted to female children, wouldn't it? <sarcasm>

Yes, responses would be different. Head doctor's help would have been recommended.

[Instaurare]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TObject
[B]Duh, it would have been much better if he was most attracted to female children, wouldn't it?

No, but hetero child molesters do not have their own politically active lobby group, such as the gay's do with NAMBLA (North American Man-Boy Love Association), which is a prominent component of the gay liberation movement. And their main focus of activity is to lower the age of consent. A lot.

You might consider also the lessons to be learned from the Catholic clergy sex scandal. Although less than one percent of all priests nationwide had been accused of wrongdoing, ( which is lower than other groups such as teachers, or counselors), of that one percent, nearly 95% of those involved were accused of sexual contact with adolescent boys. This is something that has not been very well brought to light by the media. The point is, this molestation of children is far more prevalent among gays than heteros, especially when you consider that gays comprise only 5 to 10 percent of the population.

[Jeff Weston]

Are you trying to equate homosexuality with pedophilia? Give me a break! Do you really contend that homosexuals condone pedophilia any more than heterosexuals? I find it hard to believe that anybody actually believes that, regardless of their feelings on the morality of the sexuality.

As far as the rest of your "statistics" are concerned, can you state your references? As for priests, they are human. Like police officers, there are a minority of bad ones who give the otherwise law-obiding majority a bad name. The only lesson I see from the Catholic priest scandal is that instead of covering it up and trying to sweep things under the rug, the priests should've been expelled and treated in accordance with the law. If you're trying to say that there are more homosexual priests than the rest of the population, then I agree. I'm sure this is due at least in part to religious pressures from within the family and friends (what this post was originally on before it got jacked) and denial amongst individuals.

As long as it is between adults and nobody is harmed, live and let live.

[cbassett]

Originally posted by Instaurare
Just for the sake of discussion, suppose Scott's gay friend had also confided that he was most attracted to male children. Would any of the above responses have been different?

THAT is NOT discussion. WTF are you. You confide that sh*t in me I'll take you out myself.

[speaceman]

I'm not sure how correct you are with your idea that NAMBLA is "mainstream" within the gay movement, but I doubt you'd find too many gay people outside that organization that agrees with thier adgenda.

The other point that I'd like to bring up is that consensual sexual activities between two people, no matter their sexes or sexual orientation, is quite a different thing than a person of a mature age engaging in sexual activities with a minor, no matter the sexual orientation or sex of those involved.

As far as you point that you feel that there is an incremental errosion in society's taboos, I think you may be correct, but that you are focusing on homosexuality as a whipping dog of sorts. I think if you watch some MTv or go see a typical teen movie you will notice that all forms of sexuality and most of society's Taboos have been attacked or have begun to be torn down.

Take a quick look American Pie where they have people eating feces or other less savory itmes, or take a look at rap videos, were you stand a pretty good chance of seeing scantily clad women shaking it for all it's worth. A lot of this stuff wasn't out in the mainstream, even 10 years ago.

If all taboos are lessened, it stands to reason that the taboo surrounding homosexuality would also weaken, no?

[cbassett]

Okay, how are NAMBLA and Man-boy love taking over this thread?!?!?
Let that crap die, along with the original poster of that idea.

[Instaurare]

What you find so objectionable in NAMBLA is the obvious next step, since what society condones now was not condoned by the consensus of those who lived in previous decades. Step by incremental step, society is being transformed right before your eyes. Consider television when it first emerged in the 50s, with innocent fare such as " The Lone Ranger," "I Love Lucy," etc. What do you think the reaction of the viewing public at that time would have been to the shows that appear on every channnel today? This did not occur overnight, but instead required a long period of desensitization. Same with this. NAMBLA is an integral part of the gay movement. And once the gay taboo is broken down, this will be next in line to mainstream. Of course, it is not this alone, but an overall revolution of societal norms which began in the 60s and has gained momentum ever since. My only point is that if one accepts the proposition that there are no moral absolutes, then the envelope will be pushed ever further to the left, such that those things which appear repugnant by even today's liberal standards, will not appear so bad to those in the future.

[cbassett]

Wow, that is deep. Not. May the vacuous hole you live in swallow you up and hold you forever.

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by Instaurare
What you find so objectionable in NAMBLA is the obvious next step, since what society condones now was not condoned by the consensus of those who lived in previous decades. Step by incremental step, society is being transformed right before your eyes. Consider television when it first emerged in the 50s, with innocent fare such as " The Lone Ranger," "I Love Lucy," etc. What do you think the reaction of the viewing public at that time would have been to the shows that appear on every channnel today? This did not occur overnight, but instead required a long period of desensitization. Same with this. NAMBLA is an integral part of the gay movement. And once the gay taboo is broken down, this will be next in line to mainstream. Of course, it is not this alone, but an overall revolution of societal norms which began in the 60s and has gained momentum ever since. My only point is that if one accepts the proposition that there are no moral absolutes, then the envelope will be pushed ever further to the left, such that those things which appear repugnant by even today's liberal standards, will not appear so bad to those in the future.

You don't truly believe that do you? It's patently obvious that what is mainstream today was taboo decades ago. But, and this is a big but, there are still boundaries that won't ever be mainstream. No one will ever condone sex with a minor regardless of gender. I truly think you are letting your homophobia cause your imagination to run rampant.

Just in case you weren't paying attention, the gay taboo is fairly non existent. The next thing you will be telling me is that because I have pets, I am one step from engaging in bestiality and soon that will be the societal norm. Regardless of today's loosened standards, certain boundaries will be upheld.