Power steering cooling

[Stu Olson]

If memory serves me correctly, Robert added a cooler to his system when he added the hydroboost unit, correct? Was this pretty much a mandatory thing to do when increasing the "load" on the pump?

If a new pump were going to be installed, would it be prudent to go ahead and install a cooler at the same time? If so, what type/brand/style of cooler would be good for this use? I assume it goes in the return line?

Having not done anything along these lines before, I welcome any comments on the subject.

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by Stu Olson
If memory serves me correctly, Robert added a cooler to his system when he added the hydroboost unit, correct? Was this pretty much a mandatory thing to do when increasing the "load" on the pump?

If a new pump were going to be installed, would it be prudent to go ahead and install a cooler at the same time? If so, what type/brand/style of cooler would be good for this use? I assume it goes in the return line?

Having not done anything along these lines before, I welcome any comments on the subject.

Stu, I installed a cooler when I got home from my first trip to JV. After doing so, I had equivalent steering ability to a rig that ran the then decent AGR pump and box.

It wasn't until I went to 37's that I actually needed more steering power, I just needed to keep what I had working very well. The cooler did that.

[Stu Olson]

Blaine, thanks for the input.

Any suggestion as to the type of cooler?

[Paradiddle]

Originally posted by Stu Olson
Blaine, thanks for the input.

Any suggestion as to the type of cooler?

The Currie al finned cooler works very well - you can install to the cross brace up front with a couple large stainless hose clamps.

Jeff

[Jerry Bransford]

Good stuff, this thread reminded me of my steering problems at the last Tierra del Sol... time to get a cooler installed.

[Stu Olson]

Thanks Jeff.

I guess I was hoping for a brand that might be carried by the local auto parts stores. I am sure the $80 Currie cooler is nice, but I was hoping to snag one locally.

[blkTJ]

I need one as well. maybe we can get some sort of group buy going???

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by blkTJ
I need one as well. maybe we can get some sort of group buy going???

You want a group buy on a $40 stacked plate cooler that you might get 5 bucks off of and have someone spend 6 hours organizing?

How's about you organize it? Find a 10 x 12 stacked plate cooler, about 3/4's of an inch thick, the two adapter fittings for the return size of your current reservoir, and do all the notifying back and forth to negotiate the price dependant on the number you get folks to sign up for.

I nominate you!

[Darrell C]

Originally posted by mrblaine
I nominate you!

I second that motion.

Put me in for one...

Did you hear the train coming, Brian

[Brad]

Hi Stu, everyone;

Well, after lurking here for several months I finally decided to register...

You could always make a poor man's cooler. Just get a length of copper tubing and run it back and fourth a few times in front of the radiator. You can paint it with some black (heat conductive) radiator paint to improve it's efficiency. Don't use regular paint, it will act like an insulator. My old Ford F250 has a factory cooler like that (not copper) with no fins which sits behind and to the side of the fan so they must feel like it works OK even in the hot radiator airflow.

If you want it you can have the cooler that I pulled out of that burnt H2 in the White Tanks, I don't expect to use it anytime soon.

Have a good day
Brad

[Rockjeep]

I have the one currie sells. Ive been running it for 10 years now and got it stright from the manufacture. Its a 12" model and is mounted on the behind the slots in the grill and in front of the radiator and the bottom. After a full day of use pump runs cool. I also have there 36" model on my motorhome for the trany cooler. Runs great. you can feel the effect of the cooler. One side hot and the other cool. Works that fast.
Kory

[Robert J. Yates]

Stu,
I'm running a 9x7 stacked plate Hayden cooler that I picked up at my local Autozone for $39. Install onto the V-support inside the grill was straightforward except for dealing with the "well nuts" for the a/c condensor mount. You will pretty much trash the ones that are in there from the factory when you go to remove them so you need to find replacements first before you get started.

I also use Valvoline Synpower power steering fluid which I also think makes a big difference as it has a much higher boiling point. I highly suggest refilling with that after you get your cooler in place.

As an aside, I had removed the radiator and the the condensor to get inside the grill but I have since heard that you can slide the small cooler through one of the headlights. I haven't tried it but if it works, its alot less work.

[Stu Olson]

Robert,

Thanks for the info no the Hayden cooler. I was scratching around the web last night and noticed a goodly number of power steering cooler projects that used various Perma-Cool brand tranny coolers.

Anyone have any personal experience with Perma-Cool brand?

Robert, when we flushed my PS pump when you were visiting, I put Valvoline Synpower in at that time and have continued to use it. I shall continue to use it.

Speaking of boiling the PS fluid, any one have comments on using the tranny cooler in the radiator (for those of us who have standard trannies). Any idea if doing so would actually add MORE heat to the PS fluid? I've read comments were the street/track guys have boiled the fluid in their PS pumps due to excessive cornering (this usually happens on the enclosed asphalt tracks) but I'm unsure if this means it boils at 212* or something higher. I would think the radiator would be too hot for the PS fluid. Any comments on that?

[blkTJ]

Originally posted by mrblaine
...the two adapter fittings for the return size of your current reservoir...

anyone happen to know what this size might be on a stock TJ box???

[Robert J. Yates]

Originally posted by Stu Olson
Robert,

Thanks for the info no the Hayden cooler. I was scratching around the web last night and noticed a goodly number of power steering cooler projects that used various Perma-Cool brand tranny coolers.

Anyone have any personal experience with Perma-Cool brand?

Robert, when we flushed my PS pump when you were visiting, I put Valvoline Synpower in at that time and have continued to use it. I shall continue to use it.

Speaking of boiling the PS fluid, any one have comments on using the tranny cooler in the radiator (for those of us who have standard trannies). Any idea if doing so would actually add MORE heat to the PS fluid? I've read comments were the street/track guys have boiled the fluid in their PS pumps due to excessive cornering (this usually happens on the enclosed asphalt tracks) but I'm unsure if this means it boils at 212* or something higher. I would think the radiator would be too hot for the PS fluid. Any comments on that?

Stu,
I think the Hayden and Permacool are probably identical in terms of quality for your use on the power steering system so I would go with whatever fits into your price range.

As for use of the radiator cooler - I'm not sure if it would be a good move or not. Seems to me though, that small stacked plate coolers are relatively inexpensive in the grand scheme of things so why not continue to give the PS its own system. Why chance piggybacking it?

[Paradiddle]

Stu - I drive by Currie twice every day of the week. I have my own UPS account at my company.

I can have a cooler to you in a day if you want

Let me know - I can pick one up tomorrow and ship it anyway you want. The short one seems to work fine and is probably a little easier to install. It comes with all the fitings as well.

The one thing I like about the round Currie type filters is it seems to block less of your radiator when compared to a flat cooler.

Jeff

[Stu Olson]

Jeff,

Thanks very much for the offer. If things don't work out locally, I certainly consider it. I think I can find something at one of the local stores.

Right now, I need to turn my attention to a new water pump (no biggie, just a PITA to change in the middle of summer). I heard a noise from the engine that was not there the last time I had the TJ out and about. I looked underneath and found a couple of drops of coolant on the lower rad hose. Looks like it is weeping from the wate pump. Figures, one payment left on the TJ and the replacement parts thing starts up! LOL

[DsrtJeeper]

Stu;
You're welcome to bring your Jeep up here to change the water pump. I can fire up the AC the night before. Have plenty of tools.

[Stu Olson]

Eric,

Thank you too for the generous offer. If it is bad enough, I just might take you up on it.

[DsrtJeeper]

Don't be shy. I'm at 39th Ave. and Union Hills. Plenty of parts stores on all corners. I enjoy wrenching, so let's just plan on it.

[Paradiddle]

Number 58 on the reasons why Arizona is too hot for humans to live - you need AC in your garage...

[DsrtJeeper]

Originally posted by Paradiddle
Number 58 on the reasons why Arizona is too hot for humans to live - you need AC in your garage...

No kidding!!!!! It's actually a heat pump, so I have heat in the winter also. Actually; it's climate control for my tools.

[blkTJ]

well, I guess I'll order one of these unless told other wise...

B&M cooler

yes.. no???

[DsrtJeeper]

OK; maybe I missed it but how do you know if your power steering fluid is too hot? Smell? Steering fade? I don't seem to be having any issues. It was over 100 degrees in Montrose and we ran a full day. Even with my 37's; no problem was felt. Supposedly; the '03 and newer models do use a different pump. I haven't looked into the differences though.

[Bruce David]

The top one in this picture is the PS cooler.
I picked it up at the Pep Boys for 35-40 bucks.

[DsrtJeeper]

I meant to say that '03 and newer TJ's supposedly have a new steering box.

[Stu Olson]

Originally posted by DsrtJeeper
OK; maybe I missed it but how do you know if your power steering fluid is too hot? Smell? Steering fade? I don't seem to be having any issues. It was over 100 degrees in Montrose and we ran a full day.

Eric,
From what I have read, PS fluid gets very dark when it has been cooked (or neglected for too long). New fluid is almost clear and I've seen some used stuff that was quite a nasty brown.

[Robert J. Yates]

Eric,
Swap in a cooler - you do not want to overheat your pump and boil the fluid as that will make for a very long day getting off the trail. Seen it and dealt with it on another rig. Not fun.

When I installed the hydrobooster for my brakes, I also made it a priority to route in a cooler because of that one incident.

Stu, the water pump is a piece of cake. Make sure you remove all of the rtv gasket material before you reinstall the new pump and you will help to ensure a leak free install. I also got away without removing the PS pump even though the manual says it has to be done. On removal, I was able to loosen the PS pump and that gave me jsut enough play to slide the water pump out. My new MOPAR pump was shaped a bit differently on the boss and that let it slip right back in. I think DC wised up as that would be the only reason I can think of for what amounts to a very small casting change.

[DsrtJeeper]

Thanks Stu and Robert.

Stu;
I wonder if a high flow pump would be worth it? I see them advertised in the various 4x4 mags. Also; my TJ came with biodegradeable antifreeze from the factory. Any spillage on the trail will not be harmful according to DC. Just a thought. You coming over here to install? Wind_Danzer is bored and offered to hydrate and feed us.

*DsrtJeeper runs and hides!!!*

[Stu Olson]

Eric,

Give me a chance to sort things out here and I'll get back to you with an answer as to my coming over to install the pump.

I just got off of the telephone with my wife. She was informing me that she has decided to fly to Minneapolis on Friday (I think it was Friday).

Our oldest daughter was hit by a city transit bus while crossing the street on her way to work this past Friday. She was knocked unconsious for about 15 to 20 minutes and was hospitalized for about 6 hours. She is now home but things are not going as hoped....she can not stand long enough to walk around the apartment without getting dizzy and falling down. As such, simple tasks like making lunch, etc. are very difficult. So, my Mrs. is heading up to help her for a couple of weeks. That leaves me with our 16 yr. old.

So let me talk to Donna tonight and figure out just what is happening over this upcoming weekend.

Just when you think you have things under control, something comes along and proves you wrong.