700r4 to 4.0l Conversion

[sethmark]

Background: 98 TJ, stock 4.0 motor, currently AX-15, 23 spline Atlas II.

Got a 700r4 ready to go in. Using the Lokar shifter, 10"x14" cooler, Advance adapters Conversion plate for bellhousing, CPS relocation Kit, and Atlas Adapter.

Does anyone have any experience, suggestions or gotcha's on this install before I'm neck deep and drowning? Any beta on the CPS relocation (yes, I know there's another option, but I can't stomach it unless the AA kit just WON'T work)?

Thanks.
Seth

[Paradiddle]

Seth,

Have you called John Lemuex at All 4WD? I picked up my axles from here a couple months ago and his TJ was up on the rack. We started bs'ing and he told me about this 700R4 swap and the troubles he'd had with the CPS. I think he had a fix though.

Jeff

[Robert J. Yates]

Originally posted by Paradiddle
I think he had a fix though.

Jeff

yes, I know there's another option, but I can't stomach it unless the AA kit just WON'T work?

I think he knows about that Jeff - nothing like being a little stubborn though

Seth, you let me know if you get sideways and need the help. I owe you a one for the HP30 gear hook up anyways

[sethmark]

Yeah. There is a known issue with the CPS relocate on distributorless motors. That's what John's got. AA assured me they have LOTS of these running and running right. So I'm gonna try it, even though it costs MORE just to avoid a bigger headache by being cheap. If I'm wrong, I'll fix it.

Thanks robert.
S.

[ausjeep]

Anyone fill me in on the process for completing this swap on a 97 TJ, 4.0, NP231.

What parts are needed?
How hard is it all? ie. how much will it cost me in terms of friendship

[sethmark]

Read this:
http://www.4x4wire.com/jeep/tech/trans/yj700r4/

and this:


700r4 Swap

Gear Ratios vs AX-15
AX15 3.83 2.33 1.44 1 0.79
TH-700R4 3.06 1.63 1 0.7

Length:
700r4 Case Length - 23.375? ? bellhousing adapter 5/8? ? OA ? 24?
Ax-15 Case with Bellhousing ? 24?

Weight ? 700r4 155# / AX-15 84#

Background ? Courtesy Novak Adapters:
The 700R4 was introduced in Chevrolet cars and trucks in 1982 as the replacement for the TH350. Its principal feature was a 30% overdrive. It also sported a lower first gear of 3.06:1, making it an even more attractive conversion transmission for Jeeps. Though there were some bugs left to iron out in the early versions, by the late eighties, the OEM transmission had become quite strong and reliable. Earlier models can be improved by the stock upgrades, and can be greatly improved with many aftermarket parts and building techniques.

Identification
This medium-duty automatic overdrive transmission has a case length of 23.4" long - 1.5" longer than its predecessor, the TH350, and 1" shorter than the TH400. The 700R is also different in that it has a square oil pan, lacking the distinctive cut-off corner of the TH350. It's case is of cast aluminum.

In 1993, the designation of the 700R4 changed to 4L60. A later version of this transmission, the 4L60E, is an electronically controlled variation, utilizing a reluctor ring (similar to that in an ABS application) and magnetic pickup, together called the Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS). The transmission requires this feedback to map the shift points. When converting to the 4L60E, let us know so we can provide you with the necessary extra components for this swap. An even newer version of the 4L60E has been released. It features a removable bellhousing and a shorter case length, along with a different bolt pattern at the rear mounting face than the TH350/700R.

These transmissions can be affordably rebuilt with stronger components in nearly every area. Additionally, shift improver kits are available to provide firmer, quicker shifts, reducing slippage, heat and clutch wear. There are also many styles of torque converter to better configure the transmission for off-road use.

Compatibility
A notable and crucial difference is that of the transmission output shaft. If the transmission being installed in your Jeep came from a
GM four-wheel-drive then it already has the requisite short output shaft. The proper shaft is identified by its protruding 3" from the rear of the main case (with the tail housing removed). However, all TH700R's that came from passenger cars or other two-wheel-drive vehicles must have the four-wheel-drive style output shaft installed before the adapter can be used.
The 700R4 and Mileage BenefitsA good part of GM's reasoning in developing the 700R was to allow more of their vehicles to meet ever stricter mileage and emissions requirements. It was an effective strategy. By converting to the 700R, your Jeep may realize significant mileage benefits as well. It is not uncommon for swappers of this transmission to see a 30% drop in fuel consumption if the Jeep sees highway use. Additionally, the transmission features a lock-up torque converter to allow a direct, non-slip connection through the transmission. This has the benefit of further fuel savings and cooler transmission operating temperatures. However, it is crucial that this lockup mechanism be properly connected to the ECM and brake lamp circuit. Stand-alone computers are available on the aftermarket for its control. Some control units even allow for the lockup to occur at a given speed. Lock-up converters in automatic transmissions give the advantage of direct engine lockup through the otherwise fluid-coupled transmission. This function works either by the ECM or a vacuum switch. Earlier versions without ECM use a vacuum switch connected to ported vacuum. The transmission receives the signal and applies fluid pressure to the clutches in the lock-up converter. The system switches off due to a signal from the brake pedal. If you run the transmission with the converter unlocked all the time it will run a little hotter. Keeping it cool is important. The advantage of this lock-up converter is increased fuel economy and decreased heat at cruising speeds. If you would like to simplify the stock setups, torque converter controls are available through racing supply retailers in a variety of styles. These facilitate the proper installation of the TH350 and 700R4. The on-road advantages are obvious. For the off-roader, the ability to manually switch the torque converter on is excellent in that is allows for compression braking.

In order to do this, the transmission must be completely disassembled to install the short output shaft. This output shaft is GM part #8681812. If you are unable to locate this item, don't hesitate to contact us. We keep a supply of new and select, used shafts for this purpose. Do note that some aftermarket shafts are not machined to proper specifications. GM shafts have a more consistent spline work, which is important as we test fit our conversion shafts against factory originals.

Part P/N
Tranny 700r4
Tranny Soft Rebuild N/A
Lokar Shifter ATS6700D
Engine to Tranny Adapter 716138
Engine to Tranny Adapter Hardware
Tranny to T-Case Adapter 50-9102
FlexPlate 716138-B
Torque Converter 700310
Tranny Cooler
700R4 Fill Tube 15735192
Dipstick 15033544
Kickdown Cable 716138-KD
Dust Cover
Inspection Plate
Crankshaft Relocation 716012

[ausjeep]

seth - that rocks, thanks a million

[Jeff Weston]

Originally posted by sethmark
Yeah. There is a known issue with the CPS relocate on distributorless motors. That's what John's got. AA assured me they have LOTS of these running and running right. So I'm gonna try it, even though it costs MORE just to avoid a bigger headache by being cheap. If I'm wrong, I'll fix it.

Thanks robert.
S.

Seth,

That CPS relocation kit was the single biggest pain in the butt for my dad's entire 700R4 swap, also behind a 4.0L with an Atlas t-case. His swap was a bit complicated because of the Warn XCL suspension, but otherwise, is pretty much what you're doing. Mike at 4X Doctor did the swap, with everything else going pretty smoothly. When the whole thing was buttoned up and it came time to fire it up, nothing! He messed around with it quite a bit and then talked to AA about sending down another sender.

When that one wouldn't work, my dad took it to another shop that specializes in that sort of stuff. That guy found out that the sender was the wrong one and was able to get one that would work from the Jeep dealership across the street. Even at that, the adjustment on that sucker is quite tricky to get just right and the labor to diagnose it was probably twice what the kit itself cost.

What are you using for an inspection cover? The adaptor pushes the tranny back about an inch or so and leaves a gap. Mike fabbed up the stock Chevy one, stretching it to fit.

Do you have a lockup kit for this tranny? Stock, I believe it only locks up in 4th gear. My dad has a nifty kit which allows it to be manually locked up in any gear. You can get it from www.700R4.com. Those guys really know this stuff a lot better than AA does based on our experiences with them.

Keep us posted on the swap.

[sethmark]

CPS relocation sensor is installed and working fine. No check engine lights. Runs as good as it did before swapping it over. I'm gonna go drive a couple of hours and see what happens, but this may be a no brainer.

The swap was painless, clean and really no big deal.

Seth

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by sethmark
CPS relocation sensor is installed and working fine. No check engine lights. Runs as good as it did before swapping it over. I'm gonna go drive a couple of hours and see what happens, but this may be a no brainer.

The swap was painless, clean and really no big deal.

Seth

So, could I interest you in a fine selection of 1/4" NPT fittings? You know they will fit, all the tranny gurus swear they will and even go so far as to put the info on neat little charts to prove it.

[sethmark]

Exactly. Precisely. Couldn't have said it better....

I drove the jeep to Murrieta and back today. 100 miles round trip with some hard core wheelin' at the Safari Gard ranch. No problems.

Time for the 700.