How Many Gallons fit in a TJ 19 Gal Gas Tank?

[Daless2]

How Many Gallons fit in a TJ 19 Gallon Gas Tank?

20.60 Gallons! (And a pinch!)

Go ahead, someone ask me how I know?? (Please I need to vent a small bit here.)


That's how many gallons I siphoned and poured out of my dropped tank today.


Sunday was a very good (but very muddy) day of wheeling and testing out the new air springs. (I will report on that later or tomorrow)

On the way back home I stopped at a car wash to power-wash the first four inches of mud off the Jeep. After doing that I drove almost home before stopping to gas up.

About 5 miles down the road, and 5 miles from my house my TJ's engine started to shutter Seconds later it stalled (at 50 MPH) and coasted to the shoulder. It would not start and I had to tow it home.

There were no error codes of any kind, other then the battery disconnect I had done a few days ago.

The symptoms where every third or fourth attempt to start my Jeep it would start for a second or two, but only at full throttle, and then it would stumbled, shutter and shut down.

I started trouble shooting this and could find nothing wrong.

Had plenty of spark, and fuel pressure.

My next thought was perhaps I picked up some bad gas? I siphoned off 6 gallons, one gallon at a time into a glass wine bottle so I could see what it looked like. All looked good.

Problem must be something else.

Well given I already had spare sensors for everything I began replacing things.

None of these sensor swaps bought me anything.

It still had the same symptoms, every third or fourth attempt to start my Jeep it would start for a second or two, but only at full throttle, and then it would stumbled, shutter and shut down.


I talked with Blaine about this today (day two of trouble shooting) and we kicked around perhaps I had a bad wire, or the Idle Air Control Motor was bad.

This led me to trace every signal wire and ever PCM to sensor ground wire and I could find nothing wrong. I called the dealer for a new AIC Motor but it wasn't in stock. They ordered it and it should be here in the morning.


What's left to do?

I figured what the heck and continued to drain the gas tank. This morning I went out and bought three 6 gallon gas cans at Wal-mart to store the gas. After filling each right up to the brim I still had gas in there.

I jacked the passenger side front up as high as the floor jack would take it so as to tip the tank back and to the left and then continued to siphoned the gas. Only this time it wasn't gas, but rather almost pour water that smiled a bit like gas.

I managed to get a bit more then 1.6 gallons of water out before the siphoned didn't work any longer. Given the volume (and purity) of the water I decided to drop the tank and clean this mess up good. I managed to get a bit more then 1 additional gallon out of the tank once I dropped it.


New status?

Tank is back up, added 2.5 gallons of fresh gas in, Jeep started and stumbled and stalled.

Decided to flush the fuel rail and fuel line.

To do this I disconnected the fuel line from the fuel rail and slid a 3/4" heater hose over the end, about 4 feet long. Long enough to get the other end in a drain pail.

Then I sat on my butt for the first time all day, in the drivers seat turning the key on and off so that the fuel pump would cycle on for three second intervals. After a few minutes it looks like I got all the water out of the line.

I connected the line up, turn the ignition and starter on and like magic my Jeep started and has been humming like new ever since.

So how many gallon fit in a 19 gallon fuel tank? (Fact not opinion.)

18, Plus 1.6, Plus 1.0 gallons equals 20.6 gallons out of a 19 gallon tank.

Now the question is, what to do with all this bad stuff! I think it's going back to the Shell Station I purchased it from first thing in the morning.

Frank


PS: I figured being I had a very controlled environment here (And I have no plans to ever go through this again) I would try to determine how much gas is in the tank when the Low Fuel Light comes on.

I had 2.5 gallon in the tank.

I shut the Jeep off in-between each addition of gas to the tank.

Adding gas in one gallon intervals I have determined that MY Low Fuel Light appears to go onand off when there are between 5.5 and 6.5 gallons of fuel in the tank. This really surprised me. That's a lot of gas left.

[truckjohn]

Frank

That is really interesting, but kinda confirms my suspicions..... It was either Jeep cheated me out of 2 1/2 gallons or they make that stupid gas light come on extra early...... I was betting on the latter.

I get the gas light on at about 15 gallons used up.

I never had the guts to run it out of gas to see how much gas I could use up till it finally died all the way.

I would not have guessed that they still had 1/4 of the tank left when the light came on..... but maybe that is Jeep... and we don't know that "Empty" means "No gas left".

I guess some good can come out of most anything. I am glad that you got the problem sorted out.

Best regards

John

[Jim M]

Soooooooo.......

How did the water get in there? Bad fuel? Somehow when pressure washing? Accumulated over time?

Glad it's running well again. I can't wait to hear about those air springs too.

BTW, how's your back?

[Scott Hill]

19


DUUUUUUHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

What the **** type of question is that?


Scott

[TObject]

Do not drive the gas tank empty, it may overheat the fuel pump. It was designed to work submerged.

[TJRON]

Originally posted by TObject
Do not drive the gas tank empty, it may overheat the fuel pump. It was designed to work submerged.

C'mon Sergey, don't be pullin info outa yer butt!
Ron

[TObject]

I did not pull that info out of my butt. I heard it on the radio. And here are some various quotes from different web sites for your viewing pleasure:


"Allowing a pump to run with little or no fuel will cause the pump to overheat, leading to build-up and formation of gum within the pump housing and higher than normal amperage draw, resulting in a meltdown of the brush housing."

"Do not "test" a new pump before it has been installed by jumping it. Running a pump in a dry condition with no fuel to lubricate it risks damaging it. Do not run the pump until fuel has been added to the tank."

"Running out of fuel can overheat pump."

"There's a risk in running on empty. The reason: on fuel injected vehicles the fuel pump, mounted inside the gas tank, is cooled by the gasoline that surrounds it. Insufficient gas in the tank can allow the pump to overheat... In hot weather, when gasoline returns to the tank from the hot engine (these systems continuously recirculate fuel between the tank and the engine) its cooling capability is diminished, further shortening the life of the pump."

"The fuel pump, which is submerged in gasoline, is actually cooled by the gasoline. Insufficient gas in the tank can allow the pump to overheat, which will eventually shorten the life of the fuel pump."

[TJRON]

OK, I get it!
If I run out of gas I won't leave the ignition on. That should do it, I'd think.

[karstman]

Interesting Frank. Glad you found the problem. Troubleshooting that kind of crap is a major PITA!

FWIW - on my way back from our last Colorado road trip, I decided to keep on driving when the gas light came on as I had a full jerry can on the back and it was only a little over an hour to our destination. I drove for approx 60 miles before stopping for gasoline. It took 17.5 gallons. I'm convinced that light kicks on with 1/4 tank left.

later,
mark

[TJRON]

I know when my gauge hits bottom and can't move any more, I'm still good for 35 highway miles.

I also had an experience with bad gas. After the 9-11 attack last year I thought it would be a good idea to stock up on a few things (if you were around in the Cuban missle crisis in 1963, you'd know why). I stored about 15 gallons of gas and some diesel fuel. I decided to use the last 10 gallons of gas on our trip to the Grand Canyon a few weeks ago. The Jeep would barely run on it. It pinged like hell and the engine had to get warm before it would idle.
I have no idea how long you can store gas but a year is way too long in a hot shed.
Ron

[Jerry Bransford]

Originally posted by TJRON
I have no idea how long you can store gas but a year is way too long in a hot shed.
Ron

Add some Store-Mor (or some similar name) gasoline additive Ron, that'll fix the problem you experienced storing gasoline on a long-term basis. You can find it in just about any boat supply store since many boaters tend to leave gasoline in their tanks for long periods of time. I've been using it for years and have added it to the gasoline in my jerry cans.

[Daless2]

Hi Folks, I have the rest of the story now.

I stopped by the Shell station where I purchased the bad gas and explained the situation and my problem. Without my having to ask they took my name and phone number and told me that someone would get in touch with me by the end of the day.

About one hour later I received a call from the station owner.

We chatted for a few minutes about my situation and it was immediate resolved on my word.

My Shell Credit Card has already been credited for 21 gallons of regular, and the cost of the three 6 gallon gas cans I purchased at Wal-mart to store the stuff in.

An offer was made to compensate me for my time spent on dealing with this problem, but I am not interested in that.

Rather then have me bring the bad gas in he told me someone would pick it up at my house this afternoon. That person just left with the bad gas and it was "the owner".

Since this situation came up I have learned a lot about the Shell Stations in Kentucky. This guy owns all but 2 of them. And I know why!

What service!

I spoke with the owner and he told me he came to America in 1974 as a refugee from Vietnam. He was one of the boat people.

One of the local church groups sponsored this teenager and someone gave him a job cleaning up around a Shell gas station. Now 28 years later he owns all but 2 of them in the state!

What a wonderful refreshing story. Can you imagine not even having a shirt on your back when you arrive and migrating your life to this level of success?

It almost makes the problem I had worth having just to learn his story.

Though you folks might like to know of it too.

Frank

[Stu Olson]

Originally posted by Daless2

Since this situation came up I have learned a lot about the Shell Stations in Kentucky. This guy owns all but 2 of them. And I know why!

I too did some checking around....there are 3 Shell stations in Kentucky.

So your point is?

[Bruce David]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Stu Olson
[B]I too did some checking around....there are 3 Shell stations in Kentucky.

LOL..................

[Daless2]

Originally posted by Stu Olson
I too did some checking around....there are 3 Shell stations in Kentucky.

So your point is?

Hey Stu, that was good!

But I'll do you one better at my own expense!


A few minutes ago Blaine was ever so kind to remind me of this without even an ounce of "told you so in his voice".

When my Jeep died I had to go get the truck and trailer. After positioning the trailer in front of the Jeep I realized I couldn't winch my Jeep onto the trailer. Obviously I was let down by my Mile Marker Hydraulic Winch! (no engine run/no winch operation.)

Figured I'd better owe up to it now before someone else caught on to this and beat me up with it!

What is my planned solution?

I'll have an electric winch mounted on the trailer by week's end! Don't need one on the Jeep!

One never knows when he will ever pick up bad gas again. Heck this is the second time for me. I believe the last time was around 1966 - 67 but I can be off by a year or two, I'm too old to remember.

Frank


PS: Care to see the operational end of my MM when I have good gas?

Nine of us were caught in a torrential down pour on Sunday right at the bottom of a gully. Prior to this rain of "biblical proportions" everything was fairly dry. Here's a shot of the last of 8 Jeeps winched through this stuff.



There was no other option. Wish there was.



PSS:
Note on Low Fuel Light Warning.

While what I shared yesterday in the post is accurate for my Jeep it may not be accurate for others. I have a Kilby gas tank skid and it does appear to kinda collapse the tank ever so slightly when installed. I don't know how much effect this might have on the Low Fuel Level Light.

I also checked the little gas purchase book I keep in the Jeeps glove box. I have never put more then 14.7 gallons of gas in it since new during any fill up, and I have never experienced the Low Fuel Light coming on either.

So give the light was on at 5.5 gallons, but off at 6.5 gallons, and the tank actually, physically had 20.6 gallons of fluid in it after a fill up the math looks like this.

20.6 minus 14.7 equals 5.9

Using this logic, on my Jeep the Low Fuel Level Light goes on somewhere between 5.5 and 5.9 gallons of fuel left. I think this narrows it down a bit more. Again, this is on my TJ, yours may very well be different. I would also suspect a certain degree of difference based on the float arm bends or how much it may have been bent on installation.

Just some additional info and a few more thoughts.

[Robert J. Yates]

Frank,
Glad everything has worked out alright for you and thanx for the nice story. From your pictures though, I can honestly tell you that I still hate mud and you couldn't pay me enough to go wheel in that slop

[KY-Jeep]

Frank,
I'm assuming that this was at the Shell station in Slade, right? During the past summer, I've heard 3 reports now about bad gas bought at that particular station. I'm sure the owner is a helluva nice guy, and he does seem to step up to the plate, but I think it's time for him to start sourcing his fuel from somewhere else. I'm in manufacturing quality assurance, and when the manufacturer consistently gets poor quality parts from their source, they either force the provider to increase quality, or find another provider.

I think that I'll start filling up at the BP in Stanton from now on. Thanks for a "confirmed" bad gas report from that station.

By the way, if you ever talk to that owner again, please thank him on all of our behalf for having the most kick-ass air compressor at any gas station I've ever seen. This thing is free to use and will fill a 32" tire from 15psi to 30 psi in about 1 minute.

[sethmark]

Frank,
I've owned 2 TJs. I've run both completely dry on more than one occasion with the tank gauge still reading over empty.

My guess is that we're expecting Mercedes Quality from a Jeep.... Not gonna happen.

[Daless2]

Hi Robert,

Yes I am with you on the mud issue. We have to deal with some of it here all the time as there are pools of standing water on the trails to get to the good rock obstacles. Normally it isn't too bad at all, but it's there. It's not like a problem that you can solve, it's more like a situation that you have to live with out here and manage to it's smallest impact.

In this case we would normally have had a very easy bypass to take, but given the horrendous (last time I saw rain like that was in Vietnam) rain the bypass turned into a mud slide and was impassable.

In reality the bigger issue we have to deal with here are Trees. They are everywhere, and can cause a significant amount of damage if you get yourself on the wrong line.

In fact I laid my Jeep up on a tree this weekend. Smashed the passenger side rear fender flair up real good. (Anyone have a forest Green right rear flair they don't need any longer?)


Hi Donald,

The Shell I purchased my gas from was not the one located at Slade but rather one just of I75 in Georgetown about 5 miles from my home. Don't know if the Slade unit is one of his or not but I wouldn't bet against it.

I can't tell you how impressed I was with this gentleman's attention to customer satisfaction. He told me he would not close this issue out for six months or so just incase I had any problems in the near term future becuase of his "negligence" (his word, not mine.)


Hi Seth,

I think your right on that one. In reality I think every TJ gas tank is its own unique work of art in shape, size and fuel pick-up ability.

Life is interesting isn't it?

Frank

[Daless2]

Over the years as I have gotten older I have disciplined myself to truly understand what a bad day is, and it isn't one in which I pick up a tank of bad gas.

I have even managed to get to the point to limit myself to only 5 bad days a year.

Come the end of the year if I haven't used them all up I simply through the unused days away and start the new year off with a fresh possible 5 bad days.

However, as hard as I try I have not been able to master the limits of having "Blonde Days!"

As I confessed I had to use a Hi-Lift Jack to winch my Jeep onto the trailer to get it home becuase without the engine running the hydraulic winch doesn't work.

So far so good..... However......


In chatting with a friend today he asked me a simple question......

Why didn't you use the clutch interlock jumper and use the starter to get the Jeep on the trailer.


My answer..... A Deafening ..... DAHHHHHHHH

I never gave it a thought.


Blonde Day number 47 and counting.
(Have we reached the end of the year yet?)

Frank

[Bermudacat]

Stupidly ran her empty the other day; 1 gallon can from the filling station and 18.5 at the pump....................

[Scott Hill]

dont forget you used some gas on the way to the station and used some in all the fuel lines and some fits in the filler tube. Just figure 7.2 (if memorry is right) gallons per cubic foot. Also dont forget that the tank is not the only place fuel goes.



Scott

[Bermudacat]

I was just happy as hell that 1 gallon was enough to get to the fuel pickup based on the nasty slope of the shoulder I was parked on!!