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  #1  
Old 09-03-2003, 07:40 PM
Jay Jay is offline
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Exclamation illegal immigrants and driving?

Can you believe this is going to pass? I just don't understand. How can giving these people drivers licenses make things right? Thier not even here legally. Last time I was in DMV you could register to vote there as well. So if they have a DL does this mean voting is next?
Insurance companies will use this for a excuse to raise our rates.
I'm sorry this is one I just can't let go by without saying something.
Maybe someone can explain it in a different way and show me the light. But you better have a bright one!

I Think its time to turn the TERMINATOR loose on these politicians.

If someone has Gray Davis's e-mail please forward or send it to me so I can.
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  #2  
Old 09-03-2003, 08:09 PM
TObject TObject is offline
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Nope. Only citizens may vote.
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  #3  
Old 09-03-2003, 08:33 PM
Jerry Bransford Jerry Bransford is offline
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If any issue has my attention, it's this one. It's absolutely incredible that anyone should think that illegal immigrants should be able to LEGALLY obtain a California driver's license.

I challenge anyone to point to any other state or country in the world that would grant an illegal immigrant the right to obtain an official driver's license. This is asinine.
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  #4  
Old 09-03-2003, 08:58 PM
Joe Dillard Joe Dillard is offline
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Jay,

The home I recently moved from was litterally a stones throw from Mexico!!! I could typically see 2-12 US Border Patrol agents from the second floor window of my master bedroom 24/7.

This is a view from my old back yard 2 months ago. Yes, that's Tijuana, MX.



The general public hasn't a clue as to how many illegals either attemp, or make it into this country on a daily basis from down south here in San Diego, and they don't want us to know!! These numbers obviously aren't openly publicised. However, one of my co-workers brothers has worked as an agent for over 12 years in the San Ysidro area. He's shared with me all sorts of data. It's discusting what us taxpayers fork out for their benifit!!

I could go on & on about how the US daily allows thousands, into San Diego alone, who are from TJ etc/Mexican kids to attend our schools along the boarder region. YES, WE PAY FOR THEM TO BE HERE, BUSES & ALL!!! My son Rusty was only 1 of 3 caucassion kids in his 7th & 8th grade class. The *American kids* were roughly out numbered 300:1.

The politicians along the border turn their back upon the common interests of the state. They encourage more & more free loaders to come here sucking-up seats in our classrooms & everywhere else they can put their foot in the door. They like to justify their actions by saying "it's for the good of both nations".

I've repeatedly asked the local San Ysidro School District Board Members this: What program do we have in place that equally allows the same number of student (from the US), to attend schools in Mexico? And which schools were these???? There answer is always: We'll get back to you with the numbers.....Well...19 years & no numbers.
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  #5  
Old 09-03-2003, 09:14 PM
cbassett cbassett is offline
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Jay, if I'm not mistake, it DID pass (the assembly). If you haven't started already, I hope you're now chewing a new one into your representatives!


Quote:
Originally posted by TObject
Nope. Only citizens may vote.

You poor, naive boy.
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  #6  
Old 09-03-2003, 09:19 PM
mrblaine mrblaine is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by cbassett
Jay, if I'm not mistake, it DID pass (the assembly). If you haven't started already, I hope you're now chewing a new one into your representatives!





You poor, naive boy.
I thought is was only citizens may legally vote????
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  #7  
Old 09-03-2003, 09:20 PM
Dan-H Dan-H is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by cbassett
You poor, naive boy.
I don't get your comment chris? care to enlighten me?

http://www.ss.ca.gov/elections/elections_vr.htm

but back on the CDL thing, I think it is preposterous.

where are the spineless litigators on this one?

anyway, seems the insurance co's are in favor because now they can insure all the illegals and charge them many many heads of lettuce.
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  #8  
Old 09-03-2003, 09:25 PM
Jerry Bransford Jerry Bransford is offline
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When is the last time anyone was asked to prove their citizenship when registering to vote?

And if anyone thinks Democratic politicians aren't out to get all the illegals registered they can, they are sadly mistaken.

What safeguards do we have to prevent illegals from registering to vote? Not very damn many if you ask me.
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  #9  
Old 09-03-2003, 09:39 PM
cbassett cbassett is offline
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Jerry about nailed it there.

It is insanely easy to perform identity creation, identity theft, and voter fraud.

Blaine, you said,
"I thought is was only citizens may legally vote????"

You are correct.


Sergey said,
"Nope. Only citizens may vote."

He is mistaken.
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  #10  
Old 09-03-2003, 10:05 PM
Dan-H Dan-H is offline
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I'm gonna assume that legally was implied.

we all know there is alot of voter fraud, and I haven't a clue how many are from Illegal aliens, but I'm gonna bet it is less than those that knowingly vote twice or in the wrong district based on "guidance" (which equals money).
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  #11  
Old 09-03-2003, 10:33 PM
cbassett cbassett is offline
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We're talking on a thread pertaining to giving illegal aliens valid I.D. AND legal driving priveleges, why would you choose to make logical assumptions here?

Were I a gambling man, and we were betting on only the California constituency, I think I'd stand a chance to make some dough.
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  #12  
Old 09-03-2003, 10:38 PM
Jeff Weston Jeff Weston is offline
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This has already passed and been vetoed by Gray Davis twice. I'm not sure why or what has changed, but he promised to sign it the next time it passed his desk.

If the thinking is that more people will purchase automobile insurance, I have my doubts. It's expensive enough for those making minimum wage or better let alone somebody working under the table for less.

We shall see, I guess.
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  #13  
Old 09-03-2003, 11:02 PM
cbassett cbassett is offline
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I think one of the big motivating factors is so that hospital emergency rooms can more quickly identify illegals when then come to the ER because they have a cold.
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  #14  
Old 09-04-2003, 12:51 AM
blkTJ blkTJ is offline
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This whole thing baffles me as well. What will these people show as proof of who they are??? What's to stop Joe criminal, citizen or not, from saying he's an illegal and getting a shiny new identity? Scary.

The only thing that makes sense is that they, the government, want the fees these people will have to pay to obtain the liscences. None of them pay income tax, that kind of bothers me, but this liscence thing isn't the answer. I think lowering income tax and raising the sales tax a bit would be a better way to have illegals pay their share.

just my opinion.
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  #15  
Old 09-04-2003, 04:02 AM
mnjeeper mnjeeper is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by blkTJ
I think lowering income tax and raising the sales tax a bit would be a better way to have illegals pay their share.
I think this is on the way to how it should be. I personally think that sales tax should be much higher and income tax much lower. Sales tax could also be scaled based on the item, possibly with a luxury tax style scale. I would rather pay a higher sales tax on a plasma television that Joe Blow (if that is his real name, since he just got a new license ) pays on a regular tube television. I don't see it happening though, at least not the lowering of income taxes.....
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  #16  
Old 09-04-2003, 07:21 AM
cbassett cbassett is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by mnjeeper
I would rather pay a higher sales tax on a plasma television that Joe Blow (if that is his real name, since he just got a new license ) pays on a regular tube television.
Are you really in the market for a plasma TV, or are you just trying to stick it to the wealthy with sales tax too?
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  #17  
Old 09-04-2003, 07:49 AM
Paradiddle Paradiddle is offline
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You guys are high if you think that the average illegal alien gives a rats a$$ about voting. They don't care about politics - the are here working and trying to make money. They come from a country were the democratic process doesn't work and poitics are rife with corruption.

Voter fraud is white man paranoia - hell only a VERY small percentage of the white man votes.

I also don't know if it is any better or wore to be involved in an accident with an illegal that has a license, or doesn't. They will drive if they have to get to work and cannot find another means - with or without the little card.

The other thing that I find short sighted about statements like "we should get them outta here" is the complete intolerance of people to pay higher amounts for goods. Do you have any idea what consumer goods would cost if white kids/men did the labor? Trust me on this - in the manual labor department I've never seen anyone work harder for longer periods of time then our brown brothers. The low wage alien worker is an integral part of our economy - as sad as that is - I'm not sure how we alter that.

I also agree that there should be little or no income tax and everything a use tax. Drug dealers/illegals/etc. all have to BUY things. That way I don't support them with my income tax.

Here is the most important thing however, what is that bar connecting the Border Patrol TJ control arm brackets to the skid plate - some kinda frame stiffener?

Arnie will fix it though.......

Jeff
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  #18  
Old 09-04-2003, 07:54 AM
mrblaine mrblaine is offline
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Not being that astute of an observer of government fallacies and practices, I do have a bit of fun observing human nature.

To me there is no reason for Davis to push this through unless there was something in it for him.

I would venture a guess that it is to buy votes. There isn't a good reason to think that any illegal and their stateside familiy won't have a warm fuzzy towards Davis when it comes time to vote.
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  #19  
Old 09-04-2003, 07:58 AM
Jerry Bransford Jerry Bransford is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Paradiddle
You guys are high if you think that the average illegal alien gives a rats a$$ about voting. They don't care about politics - the are here working and trying to make money. They come from a country were the democratic process doesn't work and poitics are rife with corruption.
You're exactly right Jeff. What I was saying is that the left-leaning politicians go out into neighborhoods that have a heavy concentration of illegal aliens and drum up fraudulent voter registrations after telling them how life will be good for them if they vote a Democratic ticket. Activisim and all that. It happens, like down in San Ysidro, and that's what we're talking about. No, they wouldn't vote on their own and they wouldn't fraudulently register on their own either. They are encouraged to do this with much pushing from their local community activists. It's voter fraud, pure and simple, with much encouragement and help from others. They're used to voter fraud where they come from, it doesn't surprise them to see it here either.
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  #20  
Old 09-04-2003, 08:08 AM
mnjeeper mnjeeper is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by cbassett
Are you really in the market for a plasma TV, or are you just trying to stick it to the wealthy with sales tax too?
I am casually in the market. First is the house, then I am fully planning on a plasma so I don't have a large TV taking up real estate in my living room. My only stopper is I hardly watch TV....but those $3000 ones are looking attractive for me when the time comes.

Quote:
Originally posted by Paradiddle


Here is the most important thing however, what is that bar connecting the Border Patrol TJ control arm brackets to the skid plate - some kinda frame stiffener?


Jeff
I think it's a shadow.
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  #21  
Old 09-04-2003, 08:32 AM
Paradiddle Paradiddle is offline
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Jerry,

I do believe you that things like that have happened. However, logically I have a problem with it.

My name is Juan, I'm here illegally. I pick strawberries for Mr. Wong's farm in Anaheim. I make some money, my kid goes to public school for free, America is a nice place to live, maybe I catch a Dodger game every once in a while. I have a decent apartment. Life is good.

Do I want "the man" to know who I am? No. Registering to vote requires an address. Why tell anyone anything about me, let alone vote for someone who I don't know about issues that don't concern me. What more can you give me - unless you are promissing citizenship. Sure a drivers license is nice, but do you really think that I can't tap into the network and get a fake license, or a fake social, or a fake Greencard? Happens every day.

I don't buy that a politician can wander into a neighborhood and drum up enough votes for this to be a concern. These people are used to corrupt politicians and payoffs, but there is more at stake when they are in the states - if they are found to be illegal they can be sent home.

Now - I do believe that the hispanic voters will vote more democrat because they are seen as less of a threat to non-whites, but I'm talking legal aliens here.

Jeff
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  #22  
Old 09-04-2003, 08:33 AM
Paradiddle Paradiddle is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by mnjeeper

I think it's a shadow.
Really - it looks like it has bolts on either end.
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  #23  
Old 09-04-2003, 08:57 AM
Robert J. Yates Robert J. Yates is offline
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Re: illegal immigrants and driving?

Quote:
Originally posted by Jay
Insurance companies will use this for a excuse to raise our rates.
Bingo. What you will see next is a reduced coverage policy for these illegal fawkers that can be obtained cheaply and is subsidized by the rest of us - I guarantee it. They tried for that in the past and would have gotten their way with it except that the licensing issue was in the way. Ought to be interesting once a new set of property damage and medical claims start to show up. Most people would be wise to raise their coverage rates - me thinks there is going to be an epidemic of lawsuits.

As for Davis, Blaine nailed it - he is on the ropes with this recall and needs the votes. Don't know how many illegal votes he is expecting but he is clearly pandering to the hispanic/mexican consitituency with his change of heart.

Jay, do you actually ever post any tech or do you just show up to rant about politics
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Old 09-04-2003, 09:17 AM
Jay Jay is offline
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Cool

Robert, I never post tech questions because I know everything. Besides that my jeep never breaks.

At least I know im not alone on this matter. Oh, by the way I did send a copy of this post to Gray Davis and all his buddies. Even Mr George W. Bush.
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  #25  
Old 09-04-2003, 09:22 AM
Jay Jay is offline
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Check this out got this this last night.

Subj: Thank you
Date: 9/3/2003 7:38:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: governor@governor.ca.gov
To: JeeprJ@aol.com
Sent from the Internet (Details)

Thank you for your email. I appreciate you taking the time to keep me informed of your opinions and the issues that are important to you. Your comments help keep me informed as we strive to make California a better place in which to work and live.

Your email has been directed to members of my staff who assist constituents and report ideas and concerns daily. If your concern is best handled by a specific department, your correspondence will be forwarded for action and response.

So that we can keep track of correspondence and ensure that we are able to respond to California residents, please be sure to include your name and address when you communicate with the Governor\'s Office or any state agency. Please note that we do NOT accept email attachments, so your correspondence should be included within the text of your email.

Again, thank you for sharing your thoughts. An informed and engaged citizenry is essential to the democratic process, and I appreciate your willingness to write me.

Sincerely,

Governor Gray Davis
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  #26  
Old 09-04-2003, 10:36 AM
Dan-H Dan-H is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jay
Your email has been directed to members of my staff who assist constituents and report ideas and concerns daily.
I wonder how many people are on his staff to delete email day in and day out and fill out an email summary sheet for the daily staff meeting:

eval sheet probably looks like this:

Step 1, broad classification of email: (check one)

[ ] another "you are stupid" email -> delete now
[ ] another "you rock" email -> print out for the ego boost file
[ ] another "you have cool hair" email -> print out for the ego boost file
[ ] another email asking the Gov. to take action on some issue:
(goto step 2)

step 2

[ ] Issue I care about ( what willie brown or DiFi tell me is important)
--> Print out and store in a file cabinet as "under review"
[ ] all other issues I don't care about
--> delete
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Old 09-04-2003, 10:42 AM
Jay Jay is offline
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You are probaly a 100% right.
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  #28  
Old 09-04-2003, 10:50 AM
Stu Olson Stu Olson is offline
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Re: Re: illegal immigrants and driving?

Quote:
Originally posted by Robert J. Yates
Bingo. What you will see next is a reduced coverage policy for these illegal fawkers that can be obtained cheaply and is subsidized by the rest of us - I guarantee it.
I guess I am confused. I thought I was already covering (in the form of MY rediculously expensive insurance premiums) all of the illegals that are driving on the highway and have neither a license nor any insurance.

Why do you think hit and runs are so common?

Granted....you don't have to be an illegal or even a Mexican national to illegally drive an uninsured vehicle on our highways. I've seen/heard of US citizens doing it too. (like my son's worthless ex-girlfriend!)

So my question......what difference does having a driver's license really make....other than if it is a requirement to be a licensed driver before you can actually obtain vehicle insurance.....well, that might then get one or two more people on the road with the proper coverage and save me 25 cents on my next premiums.

If you can obtain a driver's license without being a US citizen, then using a driver's license to indicate proof of citizeship so that one can vote is obviously null and void. That becomes a non-issue.

Tell me what I am missing here? I am not saying I am for nor against this.....just trying to figure out what impact it is really going to have.
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  #29  
Old 09-04-2003, 10:57 AM
TObject TObject is offline
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Non US citizens with proper papers can obtain a driver's license no problem.

Driver's license is not a proof of citizenship. Border patrol doesn't even accept it as a valid form of identification.
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  #30  
Old 09-04-2003, 11:01 AM
Anders Karlsson Anders Karlsson is offline
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This is hardly something new, anyone could get a drivers licence prior to 1994 when they started to link SSA# to the drivers licence to track down child support cheaters.

If you guys want a "perfect" government that knows everything about everyone I suggest you move to western Europe.

I don't see a big problem with this, they drive anyways at least now some of them will get insurance.
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