General Engine Question - Stroker ?

[Ace!]

When I was 16 or so my dad and I rebuilt a Scout II. At the time International Harvester didn't "support" the Scout line entirely, but the big rig International dealer did still offer some support, and carried a lot of parts. Anyway, my Scout had a 304 V-8 and the dealer had a 345 on the showroom floor, as an example or display or something. We talked to him about the difference between my 304 and the 345 and he said they were basically the same, but the heads were definitely different, allowing a longer stroke, the bore of the block being the same between the two. He said we could take the 345 home and bolt it in and I could be driving it around town by the end of the weekend, they were that much the same.

We decided it would be more fun and experiential to rebuild the 304 and did. I've always wondered, is that essentially the same thing as a "stroker" kit, when the block is the same bore, but the taller heads allow for more stroke (of course there would be a lot more to it internally to allow the pistons to move the extra distance)?

Áron O'Proinntigh is ainm dom

[DC]

Ace,

Interestingly, my first 4x4 was a new 1975 IHC Scout II XLC. Mine came with the 345 cid V-8. During it's life, I had the 345 bored-out .030 over, bluprinted, installed forged pistons, balanced the crank, had the heads worked on for improved flow (including larger intake and exhaust valves), went with the dual plenum, hi-rise type intake manifold from the IHC 396 (equipped with a Carter 650 cfm Thermoquad carb), and went with an RV low-end grind cam. This coupled with a B&M trick shift/RV kit for the TorqueFlite A-727 auto tranny (with new lock-up torque converter), substantially increased overall torque & HP (the latter of which topped-out at 350 on the dyno). That was definitely a sweet set-up.

In terms of the stroker approach ... I haven't done this before and am no expert per se (although I have been toying with the idea of doing this at some point with my TJ's I-6). However, at the very least, it seems to me that you're either going to be into boring-out and going with bigger pistons for more displacement, or else keeping the bore the same and going with longer connecting rods (with head work) to gain displacement by increasing the stroke (or perhaps a combination of the two). Head and valve work, a reground cam (or low-end RV type replacement cam), would also no doubt be part of the approach.

However the details work out, I like this general approach for increasing torque & HP, because you don't get into a lot of the hassles associated with swapping engines, where pollution controls, computer interfaces, instrumentation, and general wiring harness compatibility issues can be an additional pain to deal with (and you also potentially keep weight down as compared with plopping a small block V-8 in there). Either way, it's undoubtedly not a cheap mod to do.

Don )

[Ace!]

I was looking at the HESCO 4.7L stroker kit and it's for a .30 or .60 over bore, with new pistons, cam, etc. I too was thinking about the weight issue, and the I-6 saving weight over a V8 conversion. The HESCO site doesn't say too much about what the conversion would really entail, aside from the parts included in the kit. I sent them an e-mail to get more details but haven't heard from them.

I was thinking that the stroker kit would still provide an engine with long life, because you're not doing too much too it (you are, but in a sense it's somewhat basic engine mods). Powerball is up to about $120 million, so I'm thinking about doing two of these conversions I am very interested to know how the on-board computer reacts to everything being changed, and how that's addressed (hopefully HESCO will give me some good details).

Your '75 Scout sounds like it was a great vehicle. I ended up selling my '72 for something like $750, and had pretty much rebuilt the whole thing (while leaving it mostly stock).

Áron O'Proinntigh is ainm dom

[William]

Ace,

If I won the lottery, what I'd do to my jeep is to get a 4cyl volvo diesel engine, attached to an atlas, with what ever transmission could hold it. Who needs horsepower, esp, since I'd trailer it, and esp since it'd have more torque than I knew what to do with. There is a guy who built one who was on the RAMJAW list from way back. It was a YJ, but the concept is the same. For rocks, I think that torque, not HP is the key. I could be wrong.

R/
William Karstens

[DC]

Good luck on Powerball Ace. Anyway, let me know what HESCO gets back to you with ... I'd be interested.

And by the way ... I'm sure you meant .030" or .060" over (and not .30" & .60"). Although you would have a maximized displacement increase ... I don't think you'd have much if any cylinder wall left to speak of with the latter bore-out approach. (Or perhaps, you were hoping to achieve very efficient cooling of your pistons with direct water cascading heat dissipation).

Don ?

[William]

Is this another one of the Ace-a-theticals?

R/
William Karstens

[Ace!]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DC:
Good luck on Powerball Ace. Anyway, let me know what HESCO gets back to you with ... I'd be interested.

And by the way ... I'm sure you meant .030" or .060" over (and not .30" & .60"). Although you would have a maximized displacement increase ... I don't think you'd have much if any cylinder wall left to speak of with the latter bore-out approach. (Or perhaps, you were hoping to achieve very efficient cooling of your pistons with direct water cascading heat dissipation).

Don ?[/quote]

Sorry Don, I meant .030/.060 I was talking with someone else about caliber and wasn't placing my decimals appropriately. I wonder if I told him I'm selling a .0300 Win Mag???

I like that William, Ace-a-thetical. Pretty witty. Oh, the HESCO mod is supposed to significantly increase both, and at fairly low RPMs (per their site). I guess you could say it's Ace-a-thetical. I've done engine work in the past and don't necessarily know what some things are called. Just like I tore the hubs apart on my Scouts front axle numerous times, and couldn't tell you what the pieces are called. If you had a Scout axle with Warn hubs I could service them, maybe blindfolded, but if you asked me a question about what I did or replaced I might not be able to tell you what the parts were called. I'm asking about this to see if I understand the concept of a "stroked" engine, and if not, having someone explain it. But, I think I've got it.

Áron O'Proinntigh is ainm dom

[DC]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by William:
For rocks, I think that torque, not HP is the key. I could be wrong.
[/quote]

William,

You are absolutely correct on the desired increase in torque over HP for typical off-road use. However, in the effort to increase torque, you will usually have to increase HP as well. The trick is in shifting the HP-to-torque ratio towards the torque end of the relationship. Longer stroke over shorter stroke favors this approach. RV/low-end cams (with torque enhancing lift and duration grinds) also help. Increasing the intake side without going too large on the exhaust side helps as well.

Don

[DC]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ace!:
I wonder if I told him I'm selling a .0300 Win Mag???
[/quote]

Hey Ace,

You want to trade that .0300 cal Win Mag for my Model 700 BDL .700mm Remington Mag? Let me know. (Man, those things must pack some amazing muzzle velocities ... but cross winds must wreak havoc with their accuracy!).

Don s

[William]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ace!:
I like that William, Ace-a-thetical. Pretty witty. [/quote]

Hey, I get to add witty to my reptoire. Hmm. I'm going to start keeping a list of all the names I've been called.

R/
William Karstens

[Ace!]

Hmmm, mine's a Remington 700 BDL SSDM-B (stainless/synthetic, detachable magazine, with muzzle brake). At .0300 though it's almost like shooting a needle through a blow gun , so I can't hit a d*mned thing. I should have opted for the .300 Win Mag.

I'm actually considering going with a 7mm at some point, but not sure. What do you think of it, if you had a 7mm instead of .7mm of course? The .300 Win Mag kicks the holy hell out of me, and although I'm heavy I'm not big enough for it (at least in my opinion, although I've got friends that think bigger is better no matter what). We've got deer and elk, black bear too around here, but I don't have much motivation to hunt bear or elk.

Áron O'Proinntigh is ainm dom

[DC]

Ace,

Actually, at 5'11" and 205 pounds (which means I should have more than sufficient "mass"), my Remington 7mm Mag kicks the hell out of me too. Even wearing a recoil pad, my shoulder definitely gets sore after a few rounds. (And at 5'4" and 120 pounds, it just about knocks my wife into the next county). As for this "bigger is better, no matter what" stuff ... forget it. IMO, get the "biggest" or "best" that suits your style, comfort, and needs and let the others do what they want.

Don

[Ace!]

Bigger, better, bah! That's why I was thinking 7mm Mag. I don't know much about the 7mm calibers, but had a friend with some sort of 7mm that really liked it. If the 7mm Mag kicks like that though, it's probably not what I want, so thanks for the info. I've actually got my .300 Win Mag for sale right now (well, the ad is supposed to go into the next printing of the local paper). It wasn't too hard of a choice in deciding to put it up for sale. It got to where I winced (yeah, I'm a wimp, but man does it kick) as I started to squeeze the trigger. I really think it's a great caliber, with nice ballistics (that's the main way in which I chose it), just not for me.

The .300 Win Mag is an example of when buying what I thought were the best specs on paper didn't meet my real world needs (this is me poking fun at myself by the way, as someone tired of my Ace-a-theticals might, so remember it so you can flame me later ). Thanks for the info on the 7mm Mag. I know this thread has gotten off topic, but as a reminder of the original topic, I'll let you know what HESCO says about their .047 stroker kit .

Áron O'Proinntigh is ainm dom