general "car" question...

[blkTJ]

recently I've found myself dreading driving even moderately long distances in the Jeep. It's just not real fun to drive on the hiway anymore.

I've been thinking of getting a daily driver.

Anyone have any experience with a VW Jetta, GTI or Civic Si???

thanks.

Brian.

[Jeff Weston]

Brian,

I've looked at and imagined myself buying the Jetta every year at the auto show for about the last several years. For a hair over $20K, you can get a nicely equipped European sedan. Unfortunately, being European, it is a bit more expensive to repair. Everybody I know who has had one has said they were nice cars but very troublesome (electrical problems especially). If you're going to lease it and have it always under warranty then I'd go for it.

I've had my Civic since last November and couldn't be happier with the car, itself (the dealership I got it from is another story). Anyway, I got the natural gas powered Civic GX so I could drive solo in the carpool lane, but fuel aside, it is pretty much like any other Civic. It gets good mileage, handles well and stops on a dime. Best of all, they can be had for pretty cheap (especially now at end of model year and Honda's sales have been a bit down).

I got my Honda Odyssey "family truckster" from a different dealership (Long Beach Honda) and have been pleased with them. They'll give you price quotes by email and were far and away the cheapest of the several dealerships I got quotes from.

If you're not opposed to a lease and it fits within your driving habits, you can pick one up and have payments under $200. The one downside to them (and I think the VW's as well) is that the insurance is a bit higher on them. I pay a bit more for the Civic than the Mustang GT that I traded in on it.

I saw this on Honda's website:

2004 Civic Sedan Value Package Special AHFC Lease Terms
Offer valid through 9/7/2004. Special lease rates available on all new 2004 Civic models (Excludes Natural Gas Models). FEATURED SPECIAL LEASE* : 2004 Civic Sedan Value Package with Automatic Transmission (Model ES1634W) for $159.00 per month for 36 months with a $999.00 capitalized cost reduction. $1,333.00 total due at lease signing (includes first month?s payment, security deposit, and capitalized cost reduction; total net capitalized cost and base monthly payment does not include tax, license, registration, options and the like). Subject to limited availability. *The specific featured lease listed is not available to New York residents. New York residents should contact their dealer for New York featured lease. Terms and conditions vary for New York Residents. In addition, AHFC limits leasing terms to 39 months or less to residents and dealers in the state of Rhode Island.

[blkTJ]

thanks for the input Jeff, I'm currently reading reviews on cars.com, trying to find the "gotcha's". Electrical problems huh??? I thought that was limited to Rovers.

I will most likely buy the car I decide on, I've never been much of a fan of leasing.

I guess I really just need to get my butt into a few and see how I like driving 'em.

If I end up with a Jetta you can borrow it whenever you want.

[Jerry Bransford]

I'll never own another VW, parts for VWs are just horribly expensive. I had one VW that kept burning out starter motors that were $240 each and that was at mid-eighties prices. Not only that but they're put together in such a way that there are few simple repairs. Even my wife's Mercedes was built with the typical German philosophy that no part should be unnecessarily easy to replace or repair. I gave up trying to get to her MB's leaking water pump and ended up paying just about $500 to get it replaced maybe 4 years ago. I think the mechanic said he had to pull the exhaust manifold to get to the water pump.

Of course the above is not an issue if you don't plan to keep it past the basic warranty period.

[blkTJ]

Originally posted by Jerry Bransford
I'll never own another VW, parts for VWs are just horribly expensive. I had one VW that kept burning out starter motors that were $240 each and that was an early eighties price. Not only that but they're put together in such a way that there are few simple repairs. Even my wife's Mercedes was built with the same German thinking that no part should be unnecessarily easy to replace.

Of course the above is not an issue if you don't plan to keep it past the basic warranty period.

thanks Jerry, that's what I'm talkin' about. If this is what's to be expected I guess I'll stay away from German engineering.

[igofshn]

Time for a truck (tow vehicle).

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by igofshn
Time for a truck (tow vehicle).

[Dan-H]

You might compare the loaded civic Si, vs a similarly priced acura. you might find more meat, and less lipstick on the acura.

another to consider, is the small lexus. My older sister has one and loves it.

[TObject]

Ford, GMC/Chevy or Dodge 3/4- or 1-tonn with diesel engine makes for a nice daily driver, especially the ones with 4 doors. Besides parralel parking, everything else is a piece of cake.

[blkTJ]

o.k., for the sake of argument... let's say I get a truck. I don't have anywhere to store a trailer at the moment (let alone a second vehicle ). What would you guys suggest doing, renting a u-haul trailer for trips?

[Stu Olson]

Some folks flat tow....sure, not as nice as a trailer, but then, you don't have to worry about storage issues either.

[igofshn]

Flat tow brian. I do. It isn't as good as a trailer but it is better than driving the Jeep home.

[blkTJ]

I suppose it's an option... flat towing that is. I'd rather not.

Is there anything wrong with the u-haul idea? other than having to pay everytime that is.

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by blkTJ
I suppose it's an option... flat towing that is. I'd rather not.

Is there anything wrong with the u-haul idea? other than having to pay everytime that is.

besides availability, reservations, enough payments to buy and store a trailer at pay storage, never knowing the maintenance record and the possibility of a breakdown, nope, not much at all.

[blkTJ]

right.... so... ummmm... anyone in a 30 mile radius of me have space to store a trailer??? you can use it whenever you want.

[blkTJ]

Originally posted by Dan-H
You might compare the loaded civic Si, vs a similarly priced acura. you might find more meat, and less lipstick on the acura.

another to consider, is the small lexus. My older sister has one and loves it.

just saw an acura rsx on my walk to the store. nice looking car.

might be getting a truck though....

[Jeff Weston]

Brian,

I've rented the Uhaul trailer once for my first trip to JV. It was a pretty good experience due to the fact that the Uhaul gave me half off for delivering dropping it off at another location (even closer to my house).

There are a few gotchas. First, the straps won't fit over your tires. You'll either have to supply your own or get creative with theirs over your axles. Second, it is a really heavy trailer so you'll definitely want the pulling power of the diesel for anything but occasional towing.

If you're serious about a truck don't be afraid of flat towing. I've flat towed as far as the Rubicon and back behind my old Expedition. Since trading it in, I now use a 3/4 ton Van from work and it does even better.

One option you may want to look into if you go used is a diesel Excursion. Not only can you sleep comfortably inside of it, but I've seen them fairly "cheap" on the used car market when soccer moms decide that it is too much truck for them.

So, it seems like you've at least doubled your budget from your first post.

[Dukes69]

Hey Brian,
Sorry dude, I actually laughed out loud when I read this! Dont worry, it was only for a couple seconds.

Out of those choices, I'd stay away from VW. My sister has a VW Passat and its been a pile from day one. I wouldn't imagine a Jetta would be any better. The Honda's are nice. I wouldn't mind driving one. Good luck dude!

One Parting word . . . well, not really a word:

Originally posted by igofshn
Time for a truck (tow vehicle).

[blkTJ]

I did a quick price check... although I'd love to go with a Dodge, the Fords seem a tad les expensive.

Chris, why would you laugh?

[Macgyver]

Originally posted by blkTJ
I suppose it's an option... flat towing that is. I'd rather not.

Is there anything wrong with the u-haul idea? other than having to pay everytime that is.

Flat towing isn't really a big deal! In the 8 years that I've had my TJ, I've logged probably over 30,000 miles being towed behind my camper and motorhome. As long as you have a proper tow vehicle, don't worry about flat towing. As long as it rolls you can tow it home! Go for it!

BTW, my wife's diesel excursion gets a shade over 20 MPG on the highway. It makes for a good people mover, and a nice dual purpose daily driver. A diesel truck might be a good idea too. There are a bunch of really good used trucks out there.

[Darrell C]

Brian,

I've also flat towed my rig behind both our motorhome and our dually. Granted, I prefer to trailer it, but flat towing is a viable option.

Also, not to volunteer others with this comment, but I've trailered my rig to trails before only to end up driving it out with another rig on my trailer.

[Chris L]

Brian, try and deal with someone in fleet services for a new vehicle. You will get a better price. A friend of mine bought a Ford 01 F-350 2X extended cab, with a 7.3 diesel and 5 speed for 21K brand new from Don Kott Ford in carson {they had a bunch of stripped down work truck models}. The 5 speed is unapealing but the price was incredable for a deisel. I would go with a used dealer diesel truck and pay for any warrenty upgrades. JMO

[Dukes69]

Originally posted by blkTJ
I did a quick price check... although I'd love to go with a Dodge, the Fords seem a tad les expensive.

Chris, why would you laugh?

Dare to be different. Ford's are less expensive, but then you wont be able to wear your cool MoPar shirt while driving it.

I laughed because I got a quick mental picture of you driving a Jetta. HA. see, there it was again. I think you'd look cute in one, thats all.

All joking aside, I hate driving my Jeep and wouldnt mind looking cute in a Jetta if it meant I didnt have to drive my Jeep daily.

[Robert J. Yates]

I was looking at $400/mo in gas minimum with the new job between either the Jeep or the 'Burb which is what got me looking at small cars so I bought a Honda Civic Coupe for getting around during the day. It was cheap to lease, is cheap to own and cheap to operate but it sure is small and low - damn thing gets absolutely no respect on the road - at least not like my Jeep or Suburban does

So now that I am in it, I average about $22 in gas every 12 days so I figure I am money ahead in a vehicle with a full warranty. Oil changes at 10k, tranny and tune up at 100k which means I only need 4 oil changes and some tire rotations during the lease period. Can't get any cheaper than that plus, when I'm done with it - I just drop it off. The ultimate in disposable vehicles

If you lease, make sure you get 15k/year for milage, not 12 - that way you can use it for just about anything you want to do short of wheelin.

[speaceman]

The scion xc is supposed to be very fun to drive, and a pretty good deal at $16K or so.

Haven't tried on out, but I have a friend who is absolutely raving about how great a little car it is.

If you don't mind a 2 door sport coupe, you may want to check it out.

[speaceman]

On a side note, is a 7000 lb towing limit enough to flat tow every once in awhile?

I just saw that the new 2005 Dakota has a 7000 tow limit, which is the highest midsize pick-up towing limit I have seen.

Or is it just not worth it?

[TObject]

7000 is right there for a jeep on a small trailer, but add camping stuff and supplies; and you will be over limit. It would be nice to have another 1 - 2 thousand pounds to spare on top of the 7000.

Other than that, correct me if I am wrong, but 7000 sounds like right there. And the camping stuff can probably go in the truck and not on the trailer. But watch for the combined weight.

My ex boss used to buy one Dakota after another. I borrowed his when we were moving, nice truck. He owns a diesel F250 now, just like me (only his is newer).

If I was to buy a truck right now, I would still buy a diesel.

[Darrell C]

Originally posted by speaceman
On a side note, is a 7000 lb towing limit enough to flat tow every once in awhile?

I just saw that the new 2005 Dakota has a 7000 tow limit, which is the highest midsize pick-up towing limit I have seen.

Or is it just not worth it?

Flat tow? Yes. 7000 is fine for that.

On a trailer? Getting a little close. Figure about 4K for the Jeep, another 1200-1400 for the trailer. Just say 5500lbs. Then some spare parts, fluids, etc. Should put you close to 6000 lbs. 7000 limit should work, but not much margin for error.

And, as Sergey said, don't forget to check the GCWR.

[Robert J. Yates]

Problem with the Dakota is that even if you were towing say 6000lbs and not the rated max 7000lbs, the small engine would drive you nuts on grades. The 350 in my Suburban is pretty much maxed out so I couldn't imagine trying to make a 318 or the even the 4.7 if thats what they are using now, do the same work. There is no substitute for cubic inches if you are running a gas motor in a tow rig.

[Jeff Weston]

Originally posted by speaceman
On a side note, is a 7000 lb towing limit enough to flat tow every once in awhile?

That 7000# rating is for pulling. After 1500#, I believe, CA law requires the towed vehicle to have its own brakes. Obviously, most don't follow this (myself included). So, it comes down to a comfort level of whether the Dakota has the brakes to slow you down. FWIW, my Expedition (rated for 9500# I think) did just fine braking and handling. It showed it weakness when climbling sustained grades.

So, if you have/want a Dakota and are wondering if you could flat tow your Jeep with it then I'd be inclined to think you could. If you were looking for a "tow vehicle" then I'd consider other, heavier duty options.

Brian,

Get a motorhome and use that as your daily driver like Jack Nicholson did in About Schmidt.