ZJ Cage kit finally hits the market....

[BMRisko]

Well I just got my ZJ back from Essentially Off-Road with the interior 8 point roll cage installed. I will post more detailed info later tonight. I am extremely pleased with the outcome. A big thanks to Jimmy, Rocky and Vickey for all their work, I'm sure they enjoyed it.

Here is a link to the pics... http://web.utk.edu/~sbratto1/Jeep/Risko/

Yes, I did most of the painting, so excuse the mess on the headliner and I still have alot to touch-up when its light out.

i'd cut the carpet around the floor mounts. looks good otherwise.

[BMRisko]

Originally posted by dennisuello
i'd cut the carpet around the floor mounts. looks good otherwise.

Any particular reason why? I have my floor mats cut to fit around them...not shown in the pics. I didn't know if there was some technical reason to cut the carpet.

[cbassett]

Not a bad rev 1.0. Will post my .02 on it in nagca where there's actually a ZJ constituency.

[BMRisko]

Originally posted by cbassett
Not a bad rev 1.0. Will post my .02 on it in nagca where there's actually a ZJ constituency.

Thanks Chris, I figured I would catch you here or there and I know there are a few bus drivers on JBBS.

[Allen]

I like the cage overall but that lower bend bothers me.....



Allen

[BMRisko]

Originally posted by Allen
I like the cage overall but that lower bend bothers me.....



Allen

Allen, I have seen most interior cages done like that...yotas, Xjs, etc and have never seen one fail there. Only way I can see to strengthen that is bring a kicker in from the B-pillar and then add a gusset from the kicker to the A-pillar...but there goes getting in easily. While this is still a DD I want to retain some comfort in getting in.

[William]

Originally posted by BMRisko
Only way I can see to strengthen that is bring a kicker in from the B-pillar and then add a gusset from the kicker to the A-pillar...but there goes getting in easily. While this is still a DD I want to retain some comfort in getting in.

What you have to ask yourself is what's more important:

Saftey
or
Comfort.


Beyond that, I wonder if the cage will give better structural rigidity to the ZJ, and lesson the problems with splitting unibodies, and make the supsension work better thus.

Hmmm...

[BMRisko]

Originally posted by William
What you have to ask yourself is what's more important:

Saftey
or
Comfort.


Beyond that, I wonder if the cage will give better structural rigidity to the ZJ, and lesson the problems with splitting unibodies, and make the supsension work better thus.

Hmmm...

Well when I'm still driving it to and from school/work daily I do have to consider it, even if it is in the back of my mind. I would still like to see a cage that HAS failed there. The ZJ won't be a DD much longer, so I have a good platform to add on to. I flexed it up and all the doors and hatch opened and closed with ease...used to be impossible to open the hatch and you could visibly see it twisted. So I would say, yes it did add rigidity. Here is some good discussion about it if any bus drivers are interested and don't frequent NAGCA.

http://www.nagca.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10849

[Rockjeep]

I would just run a gusset down the back of the bend and all is good. Nice job.
Kory

[William]

Originally posted by Allen
I like the cage overall but that lower bend bothers me.....

Allen

Allen, so I can learn, can you make sure I got this right:

Bad bend:



Good bend:



Right?

[speaceman]

Originally posted by William
What you have to ask yourself is what's more important:

Saftey
or
Comfort.


Beyond that, I wonder if the cage will give better structural rigidity to the ZJ, and lesson the problems with splitting unibodies, and make the supsension work better thus.

Hmmm...

I'm sure it'll provide better structural ridgidity, but that'll probably only mean you're transfering where the cracking normally occurs to somewhere new.

[BMRisko]

Someone please show me a cage with a bend like that that has failed at that spot. Maybe all the Yota guys with interior cages don't know anything either. BTW, yes, Halle would get it.

[Allen]

Yes, I know more than all Toyota owners combined.....

Seriously though.....

That's the first cage I've ever seen bent that way.....

Will you or anyone find one that's failed?

Likely not. It'd take a nasty roll to collapse the windshield/roof and then the cage.....

But the very fact that you can just glance at it and know which way those bars will collapse, and the fact that they will collapse given enough force bothers me......

Of course, it's not like there's a bunch of different options available to the short bus drivers.....

That bend really needs it's own gussett. That would make me feel much better. Then I could give it the thumbs up!

Like that means anything.....

I wonder what SYO2s numbers would determine....

Allen

[BMRisko]

Originally posted by Allen
Yes, I know more than all Toyota owners combined.....

Seriously though.....

That's the first cage I've ever seen bent that way.....

Will you or anyone find one that's failed?

Likely not. It'd take a nasty roll to collapse the windshield/roof and then the cage.....

But the very fact that you can just glance at it and know which way those bars will collapse, and the fact that they will collapse given enough force bothers me......

Of course, it's not like there's a bunch of different options available to the short bus drivers.....

That bend really needs it's own gussett. That would make me feel much better. Then I could give it the thumbs up!

Like that means anything.....

I wonder what SYO2s numbers would determine....

Allen

LOL, just what I need is SY02 evaluating it. OK, I'll add that on the list of gussets to add. Shouldn't take much of a gusset to fit on the backside of that bend (inside radius). Actually a thumbs up from you would make me feel much better.

[papromike]

What alot of you guys are not getting is that this is in a UNIBODY vehicle with a full steel spaceframe already part of the roof..


This Cage add ALOT of strength to the vehicle, probably plenty for a unibody vehicle with a steel safety cage/roof already in it.


ITS not a TJ, with a hinged window....


Brandon, I like it, the only way to make those a pillars straight would be to put them through the dash... which is virtually impossible in a ZJ..

[TObject]

Oh, quit your wining. The cage looks fabulous. You all naysayers with ugly cages just jealous, you don't have something like that.

All the proposed gussets are good for is cracking your head open against them.

[Allen]

Originally posted by papromike
What alot of you guys are not getting is that this is in a UNIBODY vehicle with a full steel spaceframe already part of the roof..


This Cage add ALOT of strength to the vehicle, probably plenty for a unibody vehicle with a steel safety cage/roof already in it.


ITS not a TJ, with a hinged window....


Brandon, I like it, the only way to make those a pillars straight would be to put them through the dash... which is virtually impossible in a ZJ..

I thought unibodies needed more help.....

And you have a good point. The steel roof is likely sturdier than my fiberglass hat or canvas tent.....

Allen

[BMRisko]

Originally posted by papromike
What alot of you guys are not getting is that this is in a UNIBODY vehicle with a full steel spaceframe already part of the roof..


This Cage add ALOT of strength to the vehicle, probably plenty for a unibody vehicle with a steel safety cage/roof already in it.


ITS not a TJ, with a hinged window....


Brandon, I like it, the only way to make those a pillars straight would be to put them through the dash... which is virtually impossible in a ZJ..

Mike, I took my dash off before it went into the shop to see if that was possible. It would basically involve making a new heater / AC box and relocating the blower motor and a few large witing bundles. Not worth it IMO. Thank you for mentioning that I already have a roof! I think a few people, not necessarily on this BBS are looking past that fact. If more than anything, it is an awesome starting point IMO and a great option for those wanting a pre-made cage kit. All I know is there is finally a ZJ cage kit on the market. Obviously still room to improve, but you're going to expect changes, especially after only 1 being made. I may not get to benefit from the changes, but I'm happy to get the ball rolling and let my heep be the basis for discussions on future improvements. Good stuff.

[papromike]

brandon..


I;ll take one... PM me the info..

[William]

Originally posted by papromike

ITS not a TJ, with a hinged window....

Mike all the way up until this comment, you were correct. Then you made this comment.

The hinge on a TJ window is not a weak point like you'd love to hint here.

On a rear end over front roll, missing the hood completely, my TJ landed directly on it's lid. Enough force to pull the welds appart, separate a grade 8 bolt on the sleved tubing, twist the tub out 3 inches, and buckle the cowling.

The hinge itself was perfectly fine. In fact, Ironically, it still preformed it's hinge function just fine. The "weak" point, or so it would seem, is the hinge pin. Which was untouched, bent or etc.

Just as an FYI, because I doubt you've though that through very well.

[William]

Here's a close up of the hinge Mike.

[William]

Originally posted by BMRisko
BTW, yes, Halle would get it.

That was the point of bad bend vs good bend. A short interjection at humour. My roll cage has a similar bend to yours, just not so raked forward. The person who installed mine added a bar going from it to the b post on the cage to add strenght. A bit of PITA to do, but he figured it out. It's a foot knocker, but after knocking my head once.. that's about all the brain matter I desire to donate:

[BMRisko]

Originally posted by William
That was the point of bad bend vs good bend. A short interjection at humour. My roll cage has a similar bend to yours, just not so raked forward. The person who installed mine added a bar going from it to the b post on the cage to add strenght. A bit of PITA to do, but he figured it out. It's a foot knocker, but after knocking my head once.. that's about all the brain matter I desire to donate:

Ouch...thats why I have some 1" thick cage padding from Summit Racing on order.

[cbassett]

Originally posted by BMRisko
Obviously still room to improve, but you're going to expect changes, especially after only 1 being made.

Okay Brandon, EOR didn't invent the wheel- they just made their version of it.

[BMRisko]

Originally posted by cbassett
Okay Brandon, EOR didn't invent the wheel- they just made their version of it.

Yea, what he said.

[papromike]

William, I agree with you also, However You also need to factor in a full roof, with padding and A/B/C pillars into the equations..


And also if I remember correctly you did a forward roll?...


the ZJ has over 10" more wheelbase than the TJ. and Although it has happened on occasion, the ZJ usually isnt subject to a "ass over teakettle" roll like the one you did.

Obviously there is a chance for any type of roll, however with a full roof structure and seating for 5 people, the cage has to be designed with that in mind AND the fact that you cannot remove the roof to install it, it all has to be done while in the vehicle..


Sure there a few tweaks that could be done on that cage, However..

That cage has a retail of $550 so I think that is a hell of a deal for some additional piece of mind and should suffice in just about any situation where it would be needed

Its made of .120 wall DOM so plenty strong..

[William]

Mike,

Of course a ZJ wouldn't have the same propensity as a TJ to roll in that manner. That wasn't my point. In fact, I never said that a TJ is better in a roll than a ZJ. Beyond that I never said a ZJ is better in a roll than a TJ either.

With that I'll be the first to admit I don't know much about roll cage design. I asked help from someone who had two rolls under his belt to give me pointers to someone who could build a decent cage.

But what I said to you, is that the hinge is not the weak point you commented it to be. And I have first hand experience with it. In fact in the people that I do know have rolled (Jim B, TJ Ron, Seth) none of them had hinge failure. I know on Seth's jeep his cowling buckled. So, again, the hinge isn't the weak point.

Originally posted by Allen
I like the cage overall but that lower bend bothers me.....



Allen

does this one bother you more?

[norcaljr]

Originally posted by dennisuello
does this one bother you more?

what the hell was that in ? a H2 ?