Diet comparison

[mrblaine]

In my latest round of weight reduction for the rig, I, with Kat's help, managed to get everything weighed that we carry in the jeep.

Total=170 lbs. That includes the following.

Electrical bag- connectors, wire, crimpers, tape, all electrical accessory spare parts (CPS, TPS, Air Solenoid Valve, and the like), and a tester.

Hub bag- Spare hubs, spindle nut socket, picks and Torx driver for removal and disassembly along with the correct snap ring pliers.

Recovery bag- Just the usual stuff.

Spare parts bag- Normal stuff, a few bolts, pitman arm, snap rings, cotter pins, silicone, Stop leak, and a few odds and ends.

Fluid bag- six quarts of spare fluids with a funnel and pump.

5 lbs. Co2 tank

2 tool bags. I only broke it into two bags to make it easier to carry down the trail. One bag was just too heavy. The only half inch drive stuff I carry is very specific. A ratchet, couple of sockets, breaker bar, and an extension. A small 3/8's ratchet set, and the heavy stuff. A steel handle shop hammer, small prybar that is pointed on one end, 16" aluminum Ridgid pipe wrench, couple of wrench rolls, and a pitman arm puller.

If you noticed that a spare tire is missing, you would be correct. I am leaving it on the trailer. This list is the sum total of all the extra weight I am carrying excluding a small ice chest and a lunch/snack bag.

I don't figure 200 lbs extra is too bad considering I dumped 110 lbs by ditching the spare. With some judicious arranging, I should be able to get a better COG going.

Out of curiosity, does anyone else have a total weight of what they carry?

[sethmark]

My spare is 91#. With the 2 normal jeep boxs at just over 40# each, the WARN winch bag, 2 tool bags, and 1 spare front driveshaft, I believe that for a non camping trip, my total rear weight is just under 250# --- one big guy in the nonexistant back seat.

Of course I have quite the load underneath, accounting for a lot less spare parts up above.

[sethmark]

More exactly....

2 jeep boxes -- 43# and 48#

1 WARN winch bag --24#

1 tool bag and wrench wrap -- 44#

1 front drive shaft 18#

Tire and rack 95#

misc loose stuff ~5#

Camping gear --11#

Cooler -- Depends on Ice and Beer!

[StealthTJ]

I've been playing around a lot the last year or so, both with the overall weight reduction and the weight distribution.
Current, in the rear I carry:
- Tool bag 35 lbs
- Plastic box with small misc parts (u-joints, etc), fluids, grease
about 30 ~ 35 lbs
- Additional gear (camera, food, water, etc), 25 lbs
I also carry front long and short side axle shafts and an outer stub. Don't know the weight of those.
Along with this stuff, I carry, all the time (the Jeep is my DD), a SafetySeal kit, 30' strap, tree protector, D rings, shackle, air hose (the CO2 tank is full time)
My spare (35x12.50R15 MT/R) is unmounted (I run beadlocks now and carry a set of TirePlyers) and carried inside the Jeep, currently on top of the Tuffy Rear Cargo box (the one that takes up the whole area where the backseat was).
I'm going to be removing the Tuffy box, moving the spare down to the bottom of the tub (better COG), and either cutting the Tuffy box down (height wise) or just making something (aluminum) that screws on top of the wheel wells.
The Jeep's changed a lot (weight) wise the last year. I've weighed it several times at the local truck stop that has a multi platform scale (gives front and rear weight), that's certified to 20lbs.
When I first weighed the Jeep (full tank of fuel, all trail gear, and myself "180~ 185 lbs"), (also I was running 35 SSR's on 767 steel wheels "103 lbs per corner" then), I got the following:

Front axle 2040 lbs
Rear axle 2460 lbs

Total 4500 lbs
Rear weight biased 420 lbs !!!

I changed a bunch of stuff.
- Removed the Olympic Moutaineer rack from the rear (was mounted on top of the Tuffy Box)
- Added a winch to the front (Warn 9000i) and winch mounting plate
- Moved the high lift (was mounter on top of the above rack) to the front, on top of the winch roller fairlead.
- Removed the rear spare swingout and moved the spare inside, on top of the Tuffy box).
- Removed the steel 20 lb CO2 and changed it to an aluminun 10 lb tank.
- Removed the full metal doors and installed the Bestop 2 piece soft doors.
- Lessened to number of tools that I carry.

After all that moving/trimming, etc, I got the following, the last time I weighed it (full tank of gas, all trail gear, and myself):

Front axle 2200 lbs
Rear axle 2240 lbs

Total 4440 lbs
Rear weight biased 40 lbs !!

Much better now, weight bias wise anyway.

Since that last weighing, I've switched tires and wheels, from the 35 SSR's with steel wheels (spare was mounted then), to 35 MT/R's on aluminum beadlocks (81 lbs per corner). I've also added a MORE cage. I'll be having that welded in, the weekend after Thanksgiving, along with a couple of 'V' spreaders added to the top, side bars on either side, running diag. along the sides of the seats, and a rear spreader bar.
I'll weigh the Jeep again after that (I'll have the spare on the tub then and the Tuffy Box out)..
I'm going to be removing the SkidRow engine skid, that I currently have, and installing a Tera Skid, set up like you've braced it Blaine. I'm also probably going to remove the deep pan that I installed on the tranny when I did the auto swap, and go back to the stock pan. With the Skid Row off, the deep pan will hang done way too far.
I'm having a local fab person look at and price a front tri-link and a rear long arm, and after those are in, I'll look at going belly up and the possibilty of using aluminum for the skids.



Fred

[Hyperman]

Gosh, I would be afraid to measure. Full Tuffy box in the rear and the spare on the back. Blaine, I can't imagine going where we go and not having the spare.

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by Hyperman
Gosh, I would be afraid to measure. Full Tuffy box in the rear and the spare on the back. Blaine, I can't imagine going where we go and not having the spare.

I agree with you Rich. I just can't reconcile the number of times I have been out there, the number of trails done and I have yet to put on the spare. I am not tossing it, it will be on the trailer, and as we both well know, camp is not really that far away from any point on any trail with the exception of Sunbonnet and maybe Outer Limits.

I may work out something with Garry where we alternate carrying "the" spare.

I have also seen some serious sidewall rips plugged up enough to get you off the trail. So, I figure with some TyrePliers, plugs, some stitching wire, big ass patches, some glue and a bit of luck, I can forgo the spare and survive just fine. What the hell, the tires are all insured, the worst is I drive it back to camp flat and get a new one on Monday. The beadlocks will keep at least one side of it on the rim.

Trust me, I am well aware that this may bite me in the butt in a big way, but so did the notion of running an aluminum skid. I took more abuse over that suggestion than should be legal and that experiment worked out alright.

Well enough that a few others are trying it also.

[StealthTJ]

Blaine, so, I take it that the aluminum skid is working just fine ??

I'll be getting rid of the SkidRow (another weight savings), and
after the arms, doing something about a belly up. Probably not completely flat with the frame rails, but certainly higher than the stock xfer skid is now.
I'ld like to go with the 6061 T6 stuff, 3/8" .... I had priced both the 3/8's and the 5/16 and, at least here, the 3/8's is cheaper. Probably more because some places stock it.

Hyperman, it's not quite as bad as it sounds, COG wise. On the trail, I carry all the gear (about 100lbs - ) in the Tuffy box. The spare, on the top is lighter, remember, it's not mounted to a wheel. Having said that, yes, I am removing the Tuffy Box and mounting the spare, flat, in the bed, between the wheel wells. I make a smaller storage compartment, to fit above the spare.




Fred

[Scott Hill]

well you make me think I need a diet. I have sen the compact bags you carry amd know I exceede that weight especially when you include the large security box I have the only good part is it sits low.


I see more and more no spare tires on the trail and when I think about it in my years of wheeling I have seen 2 tires changed on the trail one of which could have been fixed.

maybe the tire back at the camp is a really god idea.


Scott

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by StealthTJ
Blaine, so, I take it that the aluminum skid is working just fine ??

Better than expected. Acts just like a steel one without the weight.

I'll be getting rid of the SkidRow (another weight savings), and
after the arms, doing something about a belly up. Probably not completely flat with the frame rails, but certainly higher than the stock xfer skid is now.
I'ld like to go with the 6061 T6 stuff, 3/8" .... I had priced both the 3/8's and the 5/16 and, at least here, the 3/8's is cheaper. Probably more because some places stock it.

I learned that lesson the hard way. 5/16's has to be ground to that thickness from thicker material or something to that effect. I will be going to 3/8's on the next one.

Hyperman, it's not quite as bad as it sounds, COG wise. On the trail, I carry all the gear (about 100lbs - ) in the Tuffy box. The spare, on the top is lighter, remember, it's not mounted to a wheel. Having said that, yes, I am removing the Tuffy Box and mounting the spare, flat, in the bed, between the wheel wells. I make a smaller storage compartment, to fit above the spare.




Fred

[TJRON]

I don't think I'm going to bother weighing all my stuff 'cause I just have to carry what I have to carry! My problem is the variety of terrain I traverse and the style of wheeling I do. Always different it seems. Sometimes the wife and dog, sometimes a camping road trip by myself, sometimes hard core. Not matter what it always changes.

I have to say, taking that tire rack off the rear was the best thing I've ever done. It's going to stay off, so I came up with a final solution that works for me. I deep sixed my bed box and put the tire in the bottom of the tub. One board is mounted on aluminum rails on each tire well so the top can go down (soft top rails have to set on the wheel wells) and the tire can slide in and out. I put two aluminum straps (stops) under the board to hold the tire in place so closing the tail gate holds the tire in. I stick a small board under the tire to keep it from bouncing up and down. I used a whole bunch of wood T-Nuts under the board so I can move tie down points where ever I need them. I bought a whole bunch of the soft tool bags to hold my tools and spare junk and keep it in some order. I also have two large lightweight plastic tool boxes that bungee to the board if I want to carry extra stuff. It appears this is going to work for me quite well. If I go on a lenghty road trip (not too likely) I'll put the hard top and rack on as I'll probably not do too many hard core type trails knowing I have to drive home.
Here is a picture of my easily removeable board (eight screws).

[mudpup]

Hey Blaine, why not just bring along a tube to fit in the tire? Not much weight or space.

[Stu Olson]

While I kill some time before leaving for Yucca Valley, I'll make an observation or two.

I can certainly appreciate the weight reduction some have undertaken. Very nice job indeed. Fred's before and after numbers are impressive....and I am sure Blaine can account for something similar.

I can also see, along the lines of Ron's comment, that the type (or location) of wheelin' you do will have some control on what goes with you on the trail.

The vast majority of the trails I run are day trips. I don't trailer the TJ so I have no "base camp" where I could leave things (like an axle shaft or a spare tire). As such, it takes me at least 2 hours minimum to get to my house to some of the Florence Junction trail heads. In this scenario, the fastest I could ever effect a repair (assuming what I needed was at home) would be 4 hours....and that assumes one can immediatley head for home to get the broken part and NOT spend 2 hours getting off the trail (very likely situation).

I would not even like to use the "JV" method of trail spares while wheelin' at Moab. The same issue....being so far (time) from the campground or cabin would make a necessary repair last well into the night.

I am very much looking forward to the this week's run with all that will be there. This will be very different for me, in more ways than one. Maybe I can get Blaine to help me pack my spare parts bag!

[TJRON]

Yep Stu, you gotta take what you gotta take. Your situation is similar to mine. That's why I'm trying for versatility. I think you're going to be surprised at how nimble your Jeep's going to be in JV. You'll probably want to un-weigh it every chance you get!
Have fun, all you people!

[Art Welch]

Originally posted by mudpup
Hey Blaine, why not just bring along a tube to fit in the tire? Not much weight or space.

It would take quite a bit of time to unmount the beadlock, insert the tube, and then remount the beadlock. For me if I were going to be far enough from base camp that doing this was quicker than going back to camp for the tire I'd bring my spare along.

[sethmark]

Stu,
I agree with yourself and Ron, vehemently. Its impossible to strip these vehicles down to nothing and be expected to live out of them for a week at a time.

I have paired my fighting weight (JV trips) down about as low as I physically can and still be self sufficient. However, on trips like this one coming up to phoenix, I simply have to bring certain items and the 'performance' will be comprimised that much.

There has to be a fine line balanced by each of us depending on our individual vehicle needs and desires.

[mudpup]

.

Originally posted by Art Welch
It would take quite a bit of time to unmount the beadlock, insert the tube, and then remount the beadlock. For me if I were going to be far enough from base camp that doing this was quicker than going back to camp for the tire I'd bring my spare along.

Just throwing the idea out there . I am not familiar with the places most of you guys wheel out west so I don't know how far you are from your trailer while on the trail. But if its like Stu said possibly 2 hrs, seems like 2 people can have the beadlock off and on in a much shorter time then that (hoping its an 18 bolt pattern not a 36 ) I am guessing 30 minutes to insert the tube and remount the beadlock, and air it up to a couple psi.

I realize this would be a major pain in the ass to do on the trail, but hell its better then running to the trailer if its far away. I know its a rare case when you can't fix it with plugs (even multiple packs of plugs), I just figure that a tube is so small and lightweight it wouldn't add much weight at all to the rig, plus its cheap security.

[mrblaine]

I did think of a tube and that is also the reason for the TyrePliers. Just bust down the inner bead. Takes all of 2 minutes.

[truckjohn]

Interesting idea about the aluminum. I had followed that idea about 6 months ago when Blaine took the big abuse over it. It still seems like a good idea to me.

I think Blaine took heat from the same people who think that it is not strong if a human can move it... and think that the goal is a Jeep made completely out of 3/8" or thicker steel plate... Mmmmmm a 22,000# Jeep.... No, really, it's bulletproof......

Lately, I have been thinking about interesting ways to save some weight.

I think the bead lock, boot, and tube idea of trail tire repairs would work fine, and for a low speed E-spare, a tube would do fine. I will probably try to pitch that into my own arsenal for later. If nothing else, it is light and would get me off the trail after I popped my 2nd tire.

As for my own trail tool bag, I have really pared down from what I used to carry with previous 4x4's (aka the entire kitchen sink). Honestly, there are very few sizes of wrenches that we use commonly (and adjustable covers almost all of them.) I probably need to take a weekend and go hide under the Jeep trying out different wrench sizes on which components down there.... but my entire bare-minimum tool kit right now is 1 small plastic toolbox. That includes tools, duct tape, bug spray, zip ties, ice scraper, and gloves too.

I don't skimp on recovery gear, because I have ridden with too many knuckleheads who carry some nice 3/8" twine for when they get stuck..... and nothing else.... and 1 more 20' 30k# strap and anchor shackle is really not that heavy. I am actually toying with the idea of only running like 40'-50' of winch cable and just making up the difference out of big nylon straps..... and winches really do work that much better close to the bottom wrap.

Personally, instead of a slide-hammer, I like an appropriate size piece of 12"-18" long allthread and a couple of appropriate nuts and washers. Just pick it to match whatever thread pattern the slide hammer is (I *think* mine is 3/4" fine thread.) That way, you can still use the same attachments, but don't have to fool with the 30" long beast that doesn't fit in the toolbox. Then a piece of sch 80 pipe or a nice 2" od brass round stock with a hole in it for the knocker.... or pour your own out of lead.... That whole setup costs about $15.00 and fits in tight spots where the real deal just won't go.

Best regards

John

[TJRON]

How about drilling an extra hole for a valve stem and leaving a deflated tube in the tire?

[sethmark]

Would that cause balance issues?

[Paradiddle]

Originally posted by sethmark
Would that cause balance issues?

Blaine rarely drives his TJ on the street. That tube idea is a need one Ron.

[Art Welch]

Originally posted by mrblaine
I did think of a tube and that is also the reason for the TyrePliers. Just bust down the inner bead. Takes all of 2 minutes.

Good idea, beats the heck out of my approach!

[Tumbleweed]

This post brings a lot of thoughts to light. I am from the old school (kitchen sink) and probably won't change much. Although I cannot recall the last time I used anything from my stash for my own Jeep! Always for someone else. I just can't make myself leave anything out!

[Hyperman]

Originally posted by mrblaine
.

Trust me, I am well aware that this may bite me in the butt in a big way, but so did the notion of running an aluminum skid. I took more abuse over that suggestion than should be legal and that experiment worked out alright.

Well enough that a few others are trying it also.

Bet your sweet bippy some of us copied. I love mine.

Wish I could join you guys this weekend, but can't. Have a great time.

[Stu Olson]

Well, I had a chance to weigh a few items this weekend when I was "rebuilding" from my JV trip. This the heaviest part of what I normally carry for AZ runs, except for the hi-lift jack, tool bag, etc.


2 D44 axle shafts - 40 #
D30 spares (long & short inner & Warn stub) & Warn hub - 34 #
Fluids - 12#
U-joint tool and 3 joints - 11 #
First aid & emergency food - 8 #
Emergency water - 4#
Bottle jack - 10#
Misc - 20# (fan belt, tape, radiator hose, junk like that)

Currently, my gear, less the tool bag, lives full time in a 48# storage box that is bolted into the back of the TJ. I realize that yields a heavy penality, but the Jeep dog sure likes to ride on top of it without getting pinned to the tub by those above things that would possibly be sliding around under adverse conditions.

My JV tripped worked nicely....I stripped the TJ for the trail and it did pretty darn good. I have to be self contained, as others have commented, for the kind of wheelin' I do here in AZ....I don't trailer my rig so home based spare parts can easily be 2 to 4 hours away, one way.

I am going to take some time and go through the tool bag and take a better look at it. It is the one single heaviest item I have (after the spare tire). I no doubt have some thing in there that just aren't needed.

As Blaine mentioned to me...."we incrementally add things to our Jeep and so hardly ever notice any big change in performance." It is just a slow slide towards being over weight, IMHO.

[Tumbleweed]

Stu: I noticed you carry only 1/2 gallon of emerg. water. I am hoping that the learned desert rat that you are will carry more than that for drinking purposes. I will assume that you meant that water for the TJ and carry a seperate source for the humans and dogs?

[Stu Olson]

The emergency water indicated is stored inside the storage box and about half of it is targeted to rehydrate the emergency food. Put another way, that is the "oh ****, we are in a heap of trouble water".

I carry a gallon in the seat pouch behind the driver's seat (this is always onboard as well).

When I go on a run off-road, I bring regular drinking water for myself, the dog, etc. In the hot season, a 100 oz. Camelback is also filled and strapped to the back of my seat.

Yes....water is our friend!

[cbassett]

So Blaine asked for the total weight of what everyone carries. Some took the time to itemize each aspect of their tools and spares, but unless y'all run identical running gear your numbers aren't of much value.

Care to list your gross vehicle weight, when loaded for the trail (full tank of gas, typical occupants on-board, spares and tools loaded)? Don't know, head to your local city dump or weigh station.

[TJRON]

I don't see where Blaine asked anyone to go weigh their junk?

Quote by Blaine

Out of curiosity, does anyone else have a total weight of what they carry?

Seeing how no one is running the same running gear or skid protection, how would overall weight be of much value when trying to trim down the junk we carry?

Quote by Cbasset

......unless y'all run identical running gear your numbers aren't of much value.
Care to list your gross vehicle weight, when loaded for the trail (full tank of gas, typical occupants on-board, spares and tools loaded)?

It would be interesting to know everyone's overall weight is though. Mine would change everytme I go wheeling 'cause I always carry different stuff. I could weigh my Jeep for hard core stuff like the Hammers, weigh it for Moab and then weigh it for a three day camping trip with the hard top on and 20 gallons of gas. Would that be of any value to others? I dunno?

Ron