TC whine in 4H...

[blkTJ]

Not sure why I did it but... driving home from droping off my used oil I put the Jeep in 4 high and noticed a fairly loud whine. It's only noticable above 30 mph and a bit worse coasting than accelerating. Any thoughts?

[Robert J. Yates]

Low fluid? When was the last time you serviced it? Pull the plug and check it. ATF shouldn't be black or smell burnt. Go with a quality synthetic like Mobil 1 or B&M Trickshift.

[blkTJ]

thanks robert that may be the ticket. I went down to check and realized I don't have the correct type of wrench to unscrew the plug. What the heck are those things? Anyway, I pulled the speedo and the fluid seems to be lower than it should be. It's clean though, I just had it changed a few hundred miles ago. My question is... can I add synthetic to the ATF that's in there? Can I add it through the speedo fitting until I get the proper wrench?

[Jerry Bransford]

Originally posted by blkTJ
thanks robert that may be the ticket. I went down to check and realized I don't have the correct type of wrench to unscrew the plug. What the heck are those things? Anyway, I pulled the speedo and the fluid seems to be lower than it should be. It's clean though, I just had it changed a few hundred miles ago. My question is... can I add synthetic to the ATF that's in there? Can I add it through the speedo fitting until I get the proper wrench?

You can definitely add synthetic in with mineral-based lubes, they're totally compatible with each other. I never thought about adding ATF through the speedo housing port but in view of the situation, I'd think that was good thinking on your part and go for it.

[Jeff Weston]

Originally posted by blkTJ
thanks robert that may be the ticket. I went down to check and realized I don't have the correct type of wrench to unscrew the plug. What the heck are those things? Anyway, I pulled the speedo and the fluid seems to be lower than it should be. It's clean though, I just had it changed a few hundred miles ago. My question is... can I add synthetic to the ATF that's in there? Can I add it through the speedo fitting until I get the proper wrench?

I think for a TJ, the filler plug uses a hex key, probably something in the neighborhood of 5/16" or 3/8". A YJ uses a metric wrench, I wanna' say somewhere around 30 mm.

The speedo housing is at least an inch or two above the t-case fill plug, so it's not a good indicator of fluid level. You could add fluid in there in a pinch but you'll have a hard time getting the level right. I think you run a greater risk of tearing the rubber o-ring and then you're really gonna' be unhappy.

Your best bet is to get a hex key set (as well as a torx set while your at it) and pull the plug an top it off that way if needed.

[Jerry Bransford]

Originally posted by Jeff Weston
II think you run a greater risk of tearing the rubber o-ring and then you're really gonna' be unhappy.

Your best bet is to get a hex key set (as well as a torx set while your at it) and pull the plug an top it off that way if needed.

Yeah, I forgot about that o-ring. It does tear pretty easily and when it does, it produces a leak that is often hard to track down. I tore mine doing my SYE installation and it took me too long to figure out that it was the cause of my elusive ATF leak.

[blkTJ]

off to the auto parts store, yeah your right, I'll pick up a hex set when I'm there. Thanks guys.

[speaceman]

Didn't you just change your jeeps ride height recently? Are the pinion angles just right? Might be the front d/s u-joint wearing in differently now that your angles are pointing in different directions?

Of course it could also be fluid level in the t-case.

[blkTJ]

fluid level is at the hole so that's not it. I did just convert my yokes to ubolts instead of straps, I don't think that would have anything to do with it. I'll listen a little more and see if I can pinpoint it, or maybe I should just rebuild my front ds.... the list grows.

[speaceman]

Originally posted by blkTJ
I did just convert my yokes to ubolts instead of straps, I don't think that would have anything to do with it. .

Famous last words, trust me on this one.

Check your straps. I had a harmonic vibration that got louder and louder over a couple of months and I couldn't figure out for the life of me what was causing it. I checked and rechecked everything, including the driveshafts.

One day, I was Scott Hill's house, installing something else and we noticed that the rear d/s was looking strange. The ubolts had stretched, or loosened and my ujoint was fried.

1 ujoint, and 2 tightened ubolts later, no more noise.

[blkTJ]

Originally posted by speaceman
Famous last words, trust me on this one.

Check your straps. I had a harmonic vibration that got louder and louder over a couple of months and I couldn't figure out for the life of me what was causing it. I checked and rechecked everything, including the driveshafts.

One day, I was Scott Hill's house, installing something else and we noticed that the rear d/s was looking strange. The ubolts had stretched, or loosened and my ujoint was fried.

1 ujoint, and 2 tightened ubolts later, no more noise.

I'll check it, thanks.

[Dukes69]

I dont see how it could be the U-bolts. It would whine all the time and not just when in 4Hi, right?

Brian, does it do it in 4 low?

Try shifting in and out of 2wd and 4hi a couple times while driving.

IMO, 4low is the important one dont worry about the others

[speaceman]

one last thing that popped into my head as I was going to bed:

Did you put your t-case back together correctly after the SYE?

No extra bolts or such lying around? Might be one more thing to look at.

Maybe the front t-case yoke loosened up? Might want to check that too, although usually you just crank the mofo down, so I can't imagine it loosening up again... but stranger things have happened.

[blkTJ]

played with it alittle on the way home... it's definately louder while slowing down, when there's back pressure on the drivetrain. Hard to tell if it's doing it in 4lo, it seems to need higher speeds. It goes away the instant you here the "click" of the front shaft disengauging. What I really need to do is remove the front shaft and see what happens... I won't have time to do that before this weekend. Well, maybe I'll stop by Mr Duncans tomorrow after getting that tire plugged... better safe than sorry...

Shalom... my sye was done over a year ago at which time I did little or no work myself. The guys at the shop didn't even remove the tc, so the front output wasn't even touched. Ofcourse that doesn't mean it hasen't loosened up.

[Dukes69]

does it do it in 2wd?

Log into AIM, Tam needs you

[speaceman]

Originally posted by blkTJ
Shalom... my sye was done over a year ago at which time I did little or no work myself. The guys at the shop didn't even remove the tc, so the front output wasn't even touched. Ofcourse that doesn't mean it hasen't loosened up.

As far as I know, every SYE i've seen or worked on, you have to take the front yoke off (even if you are working with the t-case on the jeep) because you can't remove the chain otherwise, in order to swap the output shafts.

My knowlege of jeep related aftermarket products is pretty much limited to what I've put on my jeep or I've people on this board buy, so I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the shop you used had to take off the front yoke to get your SYE installed.

Anyway, it's another thing to check when you have the time.

(Anyone remember the torque spec for the front t-case yoke nut? It was something like 125 or 150 ft/lbs of torque, right?)

Sergey had a similar problem with his rear t-case flange that plagued him for months.

Right sergey?

[Robert J. Yates]

Brian, ever have your front driveshaft serviced?

If not, it seems to me you also might want to check the CV ijoint there as they are notorious for producing the so called "angry sparrow" syndrome in TJ's when the CV is about to let go. They are sealed with no provision for adding lubrication and they tend to get contaminated. Considering where your Jeep came from with the salt and all, if its never been serviced, you will want to do that anyways before your Rubicon trip even if its not the particular problem.

[blkTJ]

Robert, I bet your right, I've been wondering when that non-servicable front shaft would call it quits... I haven't touched it since I bought the thing.

Unfortunately the trip starts tomorrow. I don't think I'll be able to get this taken care of in the morning. I'm hoping she'll hold together for one last trip.... "come on baby, hold together..."

[Robert J. Yates]

See if you can find a spare CV assembly before you leave then. Might cost you a few bucks but I have been broke on the Con before and not having the right spare kinda sucks.

[blkTJ]

Originally posted by Robert J. Yates
See if you can find a spare CV assembly before you leave then. Might cost you a few bucks but I have been broke on the Con before and not having the right spare kinda sucks.

On the way to Loon Lake we met some folks in Fresno. I ended up going to Fresno Drive Line to get all the parts I'd need to rebuild it. I didn't need them during the trip, I'll do it soon.

[Robert J. Yates]

Originally posted by blkTJ
I ended up going to Fresno Drive Line to get all the parts I'd need to rebuild it. I didn't need them during the trip

You have just discovered another theorum about Jeeping - if you have spares, usually you won't need them and if you don't have spares, thats when you will wish that you did

Glad it worked out for you - any difference on the noise during the trip?

[blkTJ]

Not sure on the noise, I haven't been in 4hi since I found the problem. I'm gonna drop the front shaft out if I have time this weekend and see what happens.

[Robert J. Yates]

Cool. Now, I want to hear more on the trailer roll incident

[blkTJ]

Well, hmmm... I'll tell you what I can, but I wasn't there for the actual roll. Here's what I know.

This was to be the introduction to the Con for all but 2 of our group, we weren't really sure what to expect. Most of us on this trip had wheeled together a number of times and knew each others vehicles and limitations. Although we anticipated the stock Rubicons would have some clearance issues, we figured everyone was capable of making the trail in one piece.

Then a newcomer, Dan, joined the forum and decided he'd like to join the trip. He showed up with a huge off-road trailer, filled, including 4 full jerry cans, pulled by a manual TJ on 33s with stock drivetrain and gears. He had a 44 so I'm not sure if he was 3.55 or 3.73... doesn't matter, not enough regardless. We all kinda figured there was no way he was gonna make it but we really didn't know, we hadn't been there before.

Anyway, the mistake came at the gatekeeper. It was obvious to all that he was fond of the go pedal and had very little experience in the rocks. He had to be strapped through. We should have told him to turn around right there. This would have saved his Jeep and trailer.

When we started going up the slabs we noticed he had no power to the rear wheels... something was wrong in the transfer case, possibly a broken fork from what I've been told. The decision was made for 2 vehicles to assist him out (trailer still in tow) while 2 stayed at the slabs and the rest went on to Spider lake. I was with the group that went on.

I guess the group ran across someone that said they knew another way out, easier than the gatekeeper, they opted for that route. About an hour later we heard a faint crackling call on the cb... "Things just got real ugly... we've got a rollover..." (not the exact quote but it'll will do). It turns out that Dan needed to take a leak and left his Jeep unattended, worst of all he didn't say anything about it. No one knew he had left the Jeep and the towing continued, ending very quickly with jeep and trailer flying down the hill, spinning the tow vehicle around, and rolling on it's side at the bottom.

No one was injured.

That's all I know and/or understand to be true.

[Robert J. Yates]

Thanx Brian. I had read a few snippets over on another forum (Cetrov's pix on POR) and got to wondering about the how or the why to the circumstances. The Jeep also didn't look to built up to me from what I could tell in the pix.

I'm glad it didn't ruin your time up there. I've been in that situation myself - I broke on Gatekeeper my first time up there. I was ready to turn around but it was a small group of us (4) and they encouraged me to keep going or else they would all turn back. I really appreciated that as I would end up doing the trail in 3 wheel drive which slowed us down some but didn't spoil our fun until I finally snapped my draglink at the top of Cadillac Hill. I had no spare for that and the spare tie rod that I did have could not be used so we had to get pretty creative (Hi Lift handle did the trick). We were supposed to be in So Lake by noon but didn't get there until after 6 which made for along day.

I learned some very good lessons on that trip which I now apply regularly both to my driving skills and my Jeep modifications. Hopefully, the same can be said about the experiences of those in your group and you are all stronger wheelers for it.

[speaceman]

Hmmmm.... Red TJ + Red trailer = Curse of the Red YJ?

It's a possiblity, I think.

[blkTJ]

I hate to mention this but...... the tow vehicle...... you guessed it. A red YJ.

[Dukes69]

Curse of the Red YJ INDEED!!! Thats funny, 'cause the first thing I said after the roll was that this is the Curse of The Red YJ. I witnessed the roll, pretty hairy, luckly noone was hurt.

[speaceman]

Originally posted by blkTJ
I hate to mention this but...... the tow vehicle...... you guessed it. A red YJ.

And you thought we were making it up. Shame on you.

[blkTJ]

UPDATE...

o.k., so I finally got off my butt and on my back today to remove the front shaft. Yee haa, no more noise in 4hi. I'll be swapping out the ujoints and cv center ball thing this weekend, I'll most likely have it balanced on Monday. Hopefully all will stay quiet when I reinstall it. We'll see.

oh yeah... I found out one other thing today... you can't really shift a 231 on the fly if you don't have the front shaft connected... oops...