Sergey, you may want to wait and see a bit...

[speaceman]

Originally Posted by TObject

As for new vehicle: I have about 95% decided to order a 4-door Rubicon as soon as they start taking the 2009 model year orders; new engine or not.

As I've mentioned before, my drive two and from work is also the same route that Chrysler and Ford use for their test mules. So sometimes I get to see cars under spy wrap or just new models of cars driving on the way to work.

Today, I saw a 2 door, JK, silver, with Michigan plates and it definitely sounded funny. Diesel funny.

It was behind me the whole way and as we turned onto sunset, it pulled up next to me. Definitely a diesel. (May have been a turbo diesel because it sounded like I heard one when they got in on the gas as the light turned green, but I'm not going to stick by anything except for that it was diesel.)

[TObject]

Ok, thanks. I'll wait.

[Lawrence]

As far as diesel engines are concerned, I think it is pure marketing hype in the US. Don’t get me wrong, being from Europe, I have been around diesel vehicles for a long time and I like them, but there are diesels, and, there are diesels. Hear me out on this one.

According to the manufacturer’s window stickers, the V6 JK 4x4 (so does the V6 GC 4x4) gets 15-19 mpg city/highway and the new GC V6 3.0 TD 4x4 gets 17-22 mpg city/highway (so probably would the JK-TD 4x4).

Here are some of the parameters:

I put about 600 miles a week on my vehicle, of which 80% is highway and 20% is city. This would mean 120 city miles and 480 highway miles per week.

The V6 3.0 TD engine has a window sticker premium of $1,010. It is safe to assume the same premium would apply to the JK if DC were to stuff it in.

My local gas station now sells 87 octane for $3.99/gal, and #2 diesel for $4.89/gal.

All of this means I would consume 33.25 gallons of 87 octane per week with the V6 JK, for a weekly cost of $132.67.

Were I to drive a GC-TD (or JK-TD if available), I would use 28.88 gallons a week of #2 diesel, for a weekly cost of $141.22.

So, as you can see, it would cost me more to drive a JK diesel than a gasoline powered one. Add to this that I have to pay a $1,010 premium for the diesel engine, and the benefits shrink faster than an 80-year old running out of Viagra.

Before diesel start to make financial sense for the average US consumer, a few things need to change, mainly the availability of real fuel efficient engines, lower diesel fuel prices relative to gasoline, and a change in consumer habits.

So, go get that JK now and enjoy it.

[speaceman]

You forgot to figure in the coolness factor and the ability to make your exhaust smell like french fries.

[Lawrence]

Originally Posted by speaceman

You forgot to figure in the coolness factor.

Cool would be for Jeep to actually put this one into production. It was designed by Jeep's Off-Road Technology (ORT) program and was at their display at the NJ Jeep Jamboree.

Originally Posted by speaceman

and the ability to make your exhaust smell like french fries.

Stop by McDonalds and stuff a few of them down your exhaust.

[TObject]

I think the diesel upgrade worth it just for the extended range. All other things the same, with the 18.5-gallon fuel tank having diesel engine is the equivalent of carrying an additional 5-gallon fuel can, or better.

In my truck I can go 400+ miles without refueling. This came in handy on the LoLo Motorway, even though we had three 5-gallon extra cans just in case.

A diesel JK should have range of 380+ miles, according to my calculations.

[speaceman]

Lawrence, the stock jk weighs a bit less than the Grand. I'm not sure how much of a difference that would make MPG-wise in your diesel calculations.

As for that 2 door picture you posted, if I wanted another two door, I'd just get a long wheel base TJ (used) and call it a day.

It's the 4 doors that makes the new JK cool. Otherwise, it's just an updated TJ. If I'm going to be spending $ on a new jeep, it's going to for something I don't already have on the one I have now.

I still can't figure out why car manufacturers can't get a 25/30 diesel into a pick up truck or small SUV. (Volkswagon had Jettas that got 50 MPG 5 years ago). First company to do that with a real 4wd system, will get my purchase, I don't care which brand it is.

[Lawrence]

Shalom, the figures I used were GC to GC. However, the JK and GC V6 gasoline have the exact same fuel consumption according to the window sticker. So, I assumed that the 3.0 TD would be the same for both vehicles.

Even if the TD got slightly better mileage, it still wouldn't make financial sense to get one. Don't get me wrong, I am not bashing the TD, but as you pointed, it is pathetic to think they can't make one with better mpg. I too would buy the first one that gets me 30+ mpg. Maybe Jeep should put in the VW 2.0 TDI in their US vehicles, like they do in Europe.

For some reason, I really like that extended 2-door one I posted. For me, the JK 4-door is a love/hate relationship. Some days I like it, and others I can't stand it, thinking it is disproportionate. Somehow, I like the in-between size, although you have a valid point that it is an updated TJ-Unlimited, but there is nothing wrong with that.

The JK above with the engine below producing 553 ft.lb. of torque at 2,000 rpms while achieving a 24.8 combined mpg would be Da Bomb.

[speaceman]

I wish, I really do.

[Lawrence]

Sergey,

If you are strongly considering a JK, why not buy it now?

For one, truck and SUV sales for the month of April were down 22% form the same time last year. Dealers are practically giving them away to make a sale.

Then, you have the lifetime powertrain warranty, which is handy if you plan on keeping it long term. This needs to be verified, but the F&I manager for Star Chrysler Jeep told me you can upgrade the lifetime powertrain warranty to a lifetime bumper to bumper for a fee. Again, worth it if you plan on keeping the vehicle.

Finally, you can also take advantage of the $2.99/gal price for the next three years. So, at today's prices, that's about $1.00-$1.10 savings for the next 36,000 miles. It might be more of a savings as gas prices may even go higher in the next two years.

Regarding your comment "having diesel engine is the equivalent of carrying an additional 5-gallon fuel can, or better".

Buying 5 gallons of gasoline and carrying it in a jerry can for those times when you need it, is cheaper than buying 5 gallons of diesel. In addition, assuming the MSRP difference for a diesel is the same than the GC, you'll be paying $1,010 less for a gasoline engine one, therefore the equivalent of 252.50 gallons of free gas (at $4.00/gal).

It may sound cool to have one, but if they use the same 3.0 TD, it doesn't make much sense to get it for mpg purposes. So, stop procrastinating and get one already. Just my $0.02

Disclaimer: I will stand corrected IF Jeep comes out with a super efficient diesel powerplant AND the price gap between diesel and gasoline narrows.

[speaceman]

Well, the likelihood of diesel prices dropping closer to gas is higher than a super efficient diesel engine, I would think.

Chrysler seems to generally be on the low end of things MPG-wise compared to the rest of the american car companies, let alone the japanese.

And the Gas deal is pretty good. It should definitely figure in if you're really considering a purchase. $1.00 less per gallon every time you fill up is a pretty big chunk of change over three years.

The only real problem is getting stuck with the "I should have waiteds" if a diesel does come out in the wrangler.

[TObject]

Wrangler is unlike any other SUV: for one thing, it is popular, and people buy it. It is so popular it does not qualify for the $2.99/gal price offer (at least in my Zip code).

The Jeep warrantee does not interest me; it is useless at my closest dealer: they always find excuses why something is not covered under warrantee, and when they are out of excuses they do crappy work anyway.

I still want it, and I would buy diesel if available. Have they started taking 2009 orders yet?

[Lawrence]

What!!! I can't believe what I am reading... I always thought that Chrysler-Jeep dealers were courteous, customer friendly, and always made a point to honor their warranty.

Just tried to give you food for thought. Call Jeff Sladick at Don-A-Vee Jeep. He is their fleet manager and an avid Jeeper, he'll know what the lineup will be for' '09. He also hangs out on Jeeps Unlimited if you want to catch him there.

[Lawrence]

Sergey... Sell all your stuff, I found the perfect vehicle for you. You might also have to donate blood, sell a kidney, win the lottery, or all of the above, but here it is....

Want to make an offer? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-...=p4506.c0.m245




More pics at http://www.ecarlist.com/showroom/113.../148411#00.jpg

[Jerry Bransford]

Originally Posted by TObject

Wrangler is unlike any other SUV: for one thing, it is popular, and people buy it. It is so popular it does not qualify for the $2.99/gal price offer (at least in my Zip code).

The Jeep warrantee does not interest me; it is useless at my closest dealer: they always find excuses why something is not covered under warrantee, and when they are out of excuses they do crappy work anyway.

I still want it, and I would buy diesel if available. Have they started taking 2009 orders yet?

What dealer do you go to Sergey? It almost sounds like you're describing Midway Jeep where the GM is death on the warranty when there are any 4x4 lifts or similar mods.

[TObject]

Lawrence, yep, that thing looks nice. I am afraid I would smash that fancy top on the first tree brunch I find.

Jerry, I try not to go to Jeep dealers anymore, unless it is to buy something from the parts store.

[speaceman]

Those things really are so very cool. I just can't wrap my head around the price.

Especially when you compare it to a pickup/camper or even an RV.

I get the mobility, but still.

Very cool though.

[Paradiddle]

As an FYI - Sergey is right - the Wrangler doesn't qualify for the 2.99 gas thing.

They are however making great deals on them as they are sitting on the lots.

Maybe I should put that VW engine into my TJ - I'm sure that would only cost about $20K....

Jeff

[Jerry Bransford]

Originally Posted by TObject

Jerry, I try not to go to Jeep dealers anymore, unless it is to buy something from the parts store.

I was really just more curious if it was Midway Jeep that treated you so crappy. I met with their GM several times when I was trying to get him to use my former company to lift his Jeeps and he turned out to be a complete jerk when it comes to that. He'll go out of his way to void the warranty on lifted Jeeps. In fact he got downright angry when he discussed how he hates dealing with lifted Jeeps.

[TObject]

It was Rancho Jeep at their previous location. And my jeep was not yet lifted at the time. They cited undercarriage scratches as evidence of “off-road abuse.”