Time to police our own

[Rockjeep]

This was posted on some other boards, but I Am posting it on all other boards I belong to. Its time to police ourself. If you have seen this before sorry.

Here's why; the owner of this black CJ decided to hop a log barrier, placed by the Forest Service to designate an out-of-bounds wetland area so he could hook up his shower (with a little effort he could have driven a few hundred yards to a rock slab at the edge of the lake) right next to his camp.

One member of our group tried to explain to him that he was putting our access to the trail in jeapordy by driving off-trail, but he would not hear it. He explained that he was associated with a club called the Hi-landers, and that they do it, therefore, it must be OK. I don't know any of these people, but they are a respected club, and they do a lot of work to open the trail and keep it open. I find it hard to believe that they would condone this, but if I am wrong, I'm sure I'll hear about it here.

Since these people would not listen to us, perhaps someone they know will recognize the rig and have a word with them.

The Jeep's license # is [censored]. Besedes the obvious mods in the pictures, it has [censored].
If anyone knows him let him know he should sell the jeep, he's no longer welcome any any trails.

[DsrtJeeper]

This is bad in two ways...
The guy's original act and the fact that some greenie will use this post against us.

On the other hand; you have stated your disaproval of his actions. I find that to be good.

[Rockjeep]

I hate to do it, but we need to to keep things open. We have to start some where before everything is gone.
Kory

[Sephiroth]

Would three strikes be a better option before you tar and feather this person.

[TObject]

Sorry folks, this is a Jeep Friends Forum, not Jeep Enemies Forum.

I am removing the picture and license plate information.

[Rockjeep]

No. If he had backed out covered up his tracks and fix the intrushion on that clouser I would have never said anything, But when he refuses to do anything so he could use his shower the only way to do something is with the law. You can't force him out, but you can hold him for his actions. What if we were on a three strikes rule for that trail and his actions was the third strike and now the were going to close the trail. Would you be ****ed. So we must treat it like a third strike.
Kory

[Robert J. Yates]

No more strikes and out everyone who abuses. Keeping them our dirty little secret has accomplished nothing because they keep doing it.

Eric, how is policing our own a bad thing to be used against us?

[Rockjeep]

Tobject, By doing that you help him. We need to police our own. He must be held for his actions. We need to know who we jeep with. I know if I ever see him I wiil say something to him. Thanks for helping him out.

[TObject]

You are welcome.

[Rockjeep]

Well all I can say now is by not punishing him and removing his info you have become as bad as him. I now lump you in the same group as him. Him for his actions and you for letting him just do it.
Kory

[TObject]

Is this a threat?

[Rockjeep]

A threat? WTF are you talking about. I just said I think less of you. Don't go saying I threatened you. I said your as bad as him for letting him get away from it.

[TObject]

Don't go around placing my license plate number and descriptions of my jeep anywhere.

[Sephiroth]

I think the idea of posting ones car tag or any personal imformation on a forum where anyone can look in is not a good thing and to make the guy a target is just wrong. What next his address!!! All you need is for a group of over zelous people to cause harm to this person and for what, taking a shower on a closed road. You did the right thing by asking him not to but that is all you can do and you should let it go at that.

[DsrtJeeper]

Originally posted by Robert J. Yates
No more strikes and out everyone who abuses. Keeping them our dirty little secret has accomplished nothing because they keep doing it.

Eric, how is policing our own a bad thing to be used against us?

Robert;
Never said "policing our own is a bad thing." I stated that the OP's disaproval is a good thing. The bad part about the post is how Greenies use such post against us. They now may have a photo and a license plate to prove land misuse. If the Greenies wanted to; they could find out where the offender was an fight to close the area off even quicker. I really don't know what is right in this situation, but I do think his fellow club members should talk to him. If he isn't willing to listen; report him to the proper authorities. This is very liken to rollover pics posted on various forums showing the 4x4 leaking fluids and then the driver not cleaning up his/her mess. The Greenies love this stuff! I'm sure Stu remembers what happened in our own club after such pictures were posted. The BLM and the federal government were notified by the greenies and we came very close to some serious closures.

Like Mr. Albright posted; we need to watch what is posted in these public forums. Maybe i'm wrong???

[PondScum]

I've followed this same thread on various boards. The guy knew he was in the wrong and basically didn't care.

From what i've read the authorities have been notified, pictures of his vehicle in the OOB area were sent along with his license plate.

That should be the end of it, sure go ahead and post it on every forum you belong to there is nothing wrong with that, but i don't see the need to display a picture of his jeep and his license plate that's just asking for trouble.

Too many "tough" guys out there that want to provide their own version of justice. Let the people that are paid to legally handle these matters do so.

This is turning into more of a witch-hunt then anything from what i've been reading. People are looking for his house, sending out emails to various clubs they think he belongs to...etc. What's the point if the authorities have already received all the info on him, what he did and pictures to prove it?

[John]

Originally posted by TObject
Don't go around placing my license plate number and descriptions of my jeep anywhere.

You need to relax a little here. He's just saying that he's putting you in the same catagory as the guy in the CJ. As in "if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem"
Not every scuffle or disagreement on the net gets handled like William's was.

[Rockjeep]

Perfectly said

[Sephiroth]

Originally posted by John
You need to relax a little here. He's just saying that he's putting you in the same catagory as the guy in the CJ. As in "if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem"
Not every scuffle or disagreement on the net gets handled like William's was.

And what makes this one different??

[mrblaine]

First off Kory, I am hugely offended by the title of your post. You as the thread starter have no right to lump some abuser in the same category as myself and others of the same ilk who care whether or not the trails are open and act, not speak accordingly.

I will not police my own because my own do not need policing. The outlaws, of whom I am not one nor are my friends or wheeling buddies, are the ones who need policing.

How dare you call me an outlaw and put me in the same category as one who willingly violates common sense, decency, and cares not one whit whether or not his actions can be used to shut down a trail.

I dare you to share my camp, my trail run and find one instance of any wrongdoing up to including violation of the no glass container rules on BLM land.

Do you get my point? I will not police my own and you have no right to include me in with an outlaw. Is that clear? Now, if you want to stand with him and call him one of your own, be my guest. If so, neither you nor him are welcome around me.

It is time we stopped tolerating this behavior and sweeping our dirty little secrets under the carpet. The only way we will distance ourselves from the bad guys in the public's eyes is by doing so publicly.

I say toss him and his rig right in the Sierra Club's lap and let them have him. He's clearly not on our side, maybe they can do something with him.

[mrblaine]

Well, it appears that old age and treachery has once again prevailed over youth and exuberance.

Young Kory saw fit to attempt to circumvent moderation by posting the license plate number as his user title.

Sorry Kory, you should have known that no good could come of that action.

[Joe Dillard]

It sounds like legal things will take their coarse from what I've read here, and hopefully thats enough of a lesson.

[Robert J. Yates]

rant mode/on

i'm quite torn here. on one hand, blaine is absolutely right that this guy is not one of us and nobody we wheel with needs to be policed.

unfortunately however, that guy is in a jeep and he will always be considered one of us by outsiders as long as he continues to wheel it. unfortunately again, that makes him our problem.

blaines' comment about leaving him to the sierra club sounds reasonable on the face of it but in the end, they will simply make him the poster child for all of us.

......unless we get on top of it first. I have no problem outting people who as in this instance, willingly continued his abuse even after correction.

I do have a huge problem though with the 'I want my cake and eat it to' faction who want to either sweep this under the rug or refuse to take a public stand.

I posted the cbd's response to the draft fs management plan and hardly got any discussion here yet they were calling for identifying tire cleats to become mandatory.

wtf and now some of you have a problem with outting an abuser?

I don't agree with kory that nonaction makes us the same as him but non action is also no excuse. face it - we are going to get outted one way or another and if I can avoid a tire cleat or some other type of governmental permitting process by outting morons now and cleaning up our yard, that's fine with me.

some of you people who chimed in here I know are not involved, myopioc or else don't give a sh!t because your little area is still open and yet, now you have an opinion. fawk that - if you haven't been involved, ever written a letter, attended a hearing or picked up someone elses sh!t, then you have no standing to have an opinion with and afaiac, you have your head up your ass. the threat is very real to our ability for continued unfettered access to our public lands and if we don't take charge in some way, the closed sign will most certainly go up.

rant mode/off

[TObject]

I have no stand in the wetlands shower accident. I haven't seen it. As far as I am concerned it may have never happened. Hypothetically speaking, it could have been staged by anti-recreationists.

What I firmly believe in is that posting the license plate information, description of jeep details and the picture of the jeep, attached to the story of instigative manner, was unacceptable.

This sort of vigilante rousing I am in strong disagreement with.

[speaceman]

What would you propose as an acceptable means of attempting to deal with this issue then?

(I haven't decided what I feel is right yet. I am very torn at the moment, but I can see the darkness at the end of the tunnel, so to speak, if something isn't done).

Anyway, I was curious because you are one of the most vocal for the status quo it seems.

What would be acceptable to you?

[blkTJ]

I was a bit torn by this thread as well.

my first thought... "is this what it's coming to? do we need to publicly flog abusers so they get the idea? will this keep our trails open?"

my conclusion... no, I think it was enough to allert the proper authorities to the offense and offer the vechicle description and license number to them. They need to see that picture, we don't.

I think it is good that wheelers are "policing" the trails on which they ride. I believe we need to leave punishment up to the judicial system though.

This thread seems to be a case of... "look at me, I'm helping keep our trails open, I am important." No offense meant, but this public vandetta against one Jeep owner can't possibly solve the big problem.

my $.02

[Dan-H]

My .02:

1) The Norcal boards have pretty good visibility into this trail, and can do an old west hanging fairly well. why not leave it there to start with?

2) Question to "management": Where on the board are your rules of conduct posted? I did not see anything here:

http://www.jeepbbs.net/forums/misc.p...s=&action=faqv

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by Dan-H
My .02:

1) The Norcal boards have pretty good visibility into this trail, and can do an old west hanging fairly well. why not leave it there to start with?

2) Question to "management": Where on the board are your rules of conduct posted? I did not see anything here:

http://www.jeepbbs.net/forums/misc.p...s=&action=faqv

Dan, do you need rules of conduct?

[DsrtJeeper]

Originally posted by blkTJ
I was a bit torn by this thread as well.

my first thought... "is this what it's coming to? do we need to publicly flog abusers so they get the idea? will this keep our trails open?"

my conclusion... no, I think it was enough to allert the proper authorities to the offense and offer the vechicle description and license number to them. They need to see that picture, we don't.

I think it is good that wheelers are "policing" the trails on which they ride. I believe we need to leave punishment up to the judicial system though.

This thread seems to be a case of... "look at me, I'm helping keep our trails open, I am important." No offense meant, but this public vandetta against one Jeep owner can't possibly solve the big problem.

my $.02

Very well said; Brian. Looking acrossed the various boards; there's too many vigilante types out there with short fuses. Imagine the repercussions if this guy is beaten senseless or worse because a person post the offender's license plate and picture on various boards. Could the moderator, site owner, etc... be liable? Isn't this why we have laws and people to enforce them? To suggest anything other than what is legal is absurd.

We don't need a bunch of outlaws on the trails!!!

[TObject]

Originally posted by speaceman
What would be acceptable to you?

What mrblaine posted in the thread earlier is acceptable to me.

What Robert does, by getting involved on multiple levels of government is acceptable to me.

If someone posted a description of your jeep, and said, "this guy drove over wetlands, go get him boys." I would delete the post as soon as I saw it. And I would do the same for somebody I don't know.