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  #1  
Old 07-24-2005, 11:07 AM
Matt Pascoe Matt Pascoe is offline
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Another swaybar question.

Looking for some pointers on fitting anti-roc/sway-loc on my YJ.

After changing the rear suspension to 4-link/coil-over I?ve noticed excessive rear body roll that gets a little scary on the sidehills.

Ex:

Rocker Knocker almost got the best of me. I think that if I had a rear sway bar the front right would get pushed down and level things out. Maybe?

Right now I run the factory front sway bar connected when I drive around town. I'm happy with the road handling with the front connected.

On the trails I disconnect the front sway bar. This used to work great when I was leaf sprung (SUA) in the rear, but now that I'm linked in the rear the (lack of) side hill stability gets kind of scary.

My questions...
#1 - What anti-rock would be recommended for the rear? I've read ChrisL's write-up and plan to mount mine in a similar fashion. Do they come in different spring rates or widths?

#2 - The front. YJ's have a front cross-member tube similar to TJ's, can I use an anti-rock or sway-loc fitted like a TJ?

I'm thinking that a front Anti-Rock could be setup to perform well on road OR off-road but not both without changing the link positions before hitting the trails. This has me thinking that a sway loc front and anti-roc rear will be the ticket for me.

Any ideas if/how a sway-loc will fit on a YJ?

Thanks in advance!

Matt
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  #2  
Old 07-24-2005, 11:29 AM
DsrtJeeper DsrtJeeper is offline
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I can't answer all your questions, but it's very obvious that your rear suspension is doing all the work. You definately need a front Antirock if possible. I have a wheeling buddy set up very much like you. He ended up with more travel in the rear and the Antirock definately gave his rig exceptional manners. He eventually had to switch to a front spring pack that was flatter and allowed more travel up front. This equalled out the suspension a bit more and his rig now outperforms mine at times on off camber situations. He runs the stock swaybar in the rear.
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Old 07-24-2005, 12:16 PM
Matt Pascoe Matt Pascoe is offline
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As long as I keep my front end down the suspension balances nicely front to rear:


Its when the front gets up high (steep climbs) and the weight tranfers to the rear that things seem unbalanced. The front has no weight on it so the suspension kinda rests at neutral (does not unload much which is a nice thing about leafs). The downhill rear side is probably seeing 75% of the vehicle weight and the springs just cant support that much, so they fully compress.
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Old 07-24-2005, 01:37 PM
DsrtJeeper DsrtJeeper is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Matt Pascoe
As long as I keep my front end down the suspension balances nicely front to rear:


Its when the front gets up high (steep climbs) and the weight tranfers to the rear that things seem unbalanced. The front has no weight on it so the suspension kinda rests at neutral (does not unload much which is a nice thing about leafs). The downhill rear side is probably seeing 75% of the vehicle weight and the springs just cant support that much, so they fully compress.
Well this may confirm my original thought. I've seen quite a few rigs with coilovers as of late. If the coilovers are set up correctly; they climb great. If incorrectly valved, sprung or a combination of both; I see the very thing you suffer in the first pic. This is where air shocks are sweet. Just add a bit of air and play with the rate until you succeed on that obstacle. The only other possibility that I see is the 4-link design in the rear. The geometry may be off enough to cause you excessive squat. Are you running a conventional 4 link or dual triangulated? Oh, and get that spare off the tailgate! The second picture is sweet by the way.

P.S. Is there weight on the driver's front in the first pic? The first time I ran Rocker Knocker; one of the guys ahead of me climbed it more to the right. I did the same with a 3" Teraflex short arm lift and it worked really well. I actually spun the Jeep to the left and climbed up onto the ledge with all 4 tires way before encountering the "Rocker Knocker" boulder you are laid against.
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Old 07-24-2005, 02:50 PM
Stu Olson Stu Olson is offline
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Matt....you are running SOA up front, correct?

Edit: Matt, PM me your mailing address. The Moab DVDs are ready to ship.
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  #6  
Old 07-24-2005, 03:50 PM
Matt Pascoe Matt Pascoe is offline
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Quote:
If the coilovers are set up correctly; they climb great. If incorrectly valved, sprung or a combination of both; I see the very thing you suffer in the first pic.
I doubt the valving has alot to do with it as the speed was so slow. I actually think I was stopped in that pic.

Spring rate... I'm running dual rate springs (two springs per coilover) with the dual rate lockout set about 2" into compression travel. The combined rate is perfect, excellent ride. I just wish that when I get into the single, higher rate spring I had a stiffer spring rate. I wish I new more about setting up dual rate coilovers, I "think" I can get a softer lower spring and a stiffer upper spring so my dual rate remains the same, but once I get into the single rate I'm on a stiffer spring. Definately need to look into that some more.
Quote:
Are you running a conventional 4 link or dual triangulated?
Double triangulated, relatively flat roll axis and about 90% anti-squat. On steep high traction climbs thers no lift or squat (and NO hop ). Its just the off camber climbs that are troubling me.
Quote:
P.S. Is there weight on the driver's front in the first pic? The first time I ran Rocker Knocker; one of the guys ahead of me climbed it more to the right. I did the same with a 3" Teraflex short arm lift and it worked really well. I actually spun the Jeep to the left and climbed up onto the ledge with all 4 tires way before encountering the "Rocker Knocker" boulder you are laid against.
We were starting more to the right, working to the left untill the right front caught that little knob and it climbs the ledge as you turn to the left. I dont know if that pic was an aborted attempt or when I actually made it up, but the left front tire had weight on the sidewall/rim, not much else
Quote:
Matt....you are running SOA up front, correct?
Yep, SOA on stock leafs
Quote:
Edit: Matt, PM me your mailing address. The Moab DVDs are ready to ship.
Most excellent! PM on its way
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  #7  
Old 07-24-2005, 05:24 PM
DsrtJeeper DsrtJeeper is offline
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Matt;
I'd give these guys a jingle or contact them at Pirate. These guys have the spring rates dialed in pretty close and it would help if you could give them a weight for the rear, trail ready.

www.polyperformance.com

The part that sux is once you get the spring rate where you want it; you may end up at a different ride height. I think you'll find that valving plays a bigger role than you believe whether at slow or fast speeds. Ever been off camber with a set of OME shocks?
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  #8  
Old 07-25-2005, 04:45 PM
Matt Pascoe Matt Pascoe is offline
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Ryan at Polyperformance helped me set up my current springs when I built the 4-link. Those guys are awesome with springs... His original guess was 375 over 350 for a combined rate of 181 which I have been very happy with.

I just talked to Ryan again and he agrees that a rear sway bar will help me out alot and is what I should try first. If that does not fix the problem he suggested switching springs to 500 over 300 which will give me a combined rate of 187.5. Very close to what I have now so the ride and height should remain the same... untill I get into the 500lb spring. Then it would get noticeably stiffer.

So, anyone have any sugestions on swaybars?
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  #9  
Old 07-25-2005, 05:40 PM
Robert J. Yates Robert J. Yates is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Matt Pascoe
So, anyone have any sugestions on swaybars?
Well, its not YJ related but I did manage to help a friend figure out how to get an anti-rock on the back of his CJ5 that had undergone a stretch and a 4 link with coil overs and a Black Diamond Link conversion up front. We actually started with an anti-rock up front - you could reach out and touch the ground fromt he tub in that thing before we got it dialed in with the swaybars - I don't see how some of these folks run coil-overs without swaybars but then, thats just me. Eventually, he came tot he conclusion that he needed the rear bar as well.


Get the universal kit and start from there. He had gone to a fuel cell inside the tub so he had all kinds of room to work with. Another thing that comes to mind is that we originally started with a stock TJ rear bar but he kept tweaking it and snapping the links - leverage was not kind to the stocker. The anti-rock has served him much better.
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  #10  
Old 07-25-2005, 09:06 PM
Chris L Chris L is offline
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Matt--
I would also go with the universal rear kit from currie. It is fairly easy to set up. Also for a more custom setup to build yourself, you can check out speedway industries www.1speedway.com . They sell all the custom parts to build your own.
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  #11  
Old 07-26-2005, 11:26 AM
Matt Pascoe Matt Pascoe is offline
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Robert and Chris, thanks for the tips

I see on Curries site that you can get different widths, but only one spring rate. I guess the position on the arm gives plenty of adjustment.

Looks like the best spot for the rear bar to mount would be pierced straight through the frame behind where the shackle hanger used to go:

This gets it behind the tank and should allow plenty room for the arms to move. The frame width is 42.5" and the widest sway bar is 44.5" so it will be a tight squeeze.

I'm concerned that the arm will get pinched between the tire and the frame when flexed as the tire moves in and almost touches the frame. I think I can get the arm mounted low enough that it will stay under the frame.. I'll have to play with it.

Sounds like the front will be easy. YJ's front crossmember tube is the same width as TJ's, but slightly smaller ID. I spoke with Currie and they said to buy the TJ front kit and just machine the Delrin bushings down. Sounds easy enough
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Old 07-26-2005, 12:17 PM
Robert J. Yates Robert J. Yates is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Matt Pascoe
Sounds like the front will be easy. YJ's front crossmember tube is the same width as TJ's, but slightly smaller ID. I spoke with Currie and they said to buy the TJ front kit and just machine the Delrin bushings down. Sounds easy enough
Just as a FYI Matt, the other thing you can do (that we did on the CJ5) is use a swaybar bushing kit from Energy Suspension sized for the torsion bar and then mount them on top of the frame. CJ's do not have the tube crossmember so we needed to figure something else out for a mounting point. A set of lock collars on the bar holds it in a stable/neutral position just fine.
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Old 07-26-2005, 01:17 PM
DsrtJeeper DsrtJeeper is offline
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Did I mention to move that spare? That things sticks way out there.

I see someone else likes Schaeffer lube products.
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Old 07-26-2005, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DsrtJeeper
Did I mention to move that spare? That things sticks way out there.
I think you did, but his spares not on the tail gate
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Old 07-26-2005, 02:14 PM
DsrtJeeper DsrtJeeper is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by John
I think you did, but his spares not on the tail gate
Yea; i'm just teasing him. The picture does show the spare hanging out there though. Old pic?
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Old 07-26-2005, 02:44 PM
Matt Pascoe Matt Pascoe is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by DsrtJeeper
The picture does show the spare hanging out there though.
It sure is

The gas can/spare tire rack comes off by pulling two bolts. My plan was to pull the rack and put the spare in the back for appropriate trails. But... I always wind up filling the back with tools,spares,coolers etc and never have room for the spare.

The spare will definately be in the back for this falls JV rokie run
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Old 07-26-2005, 06:24 PM
DsrtJeeper DsrtJeeper is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Matt Pascoe
It sure is

The gas can/spare tire rack comes off by pulling two bolts. My plan was to pull the rack and put the spare in the back for appropriate trails. But... I always wind up filling the back with tools,spares,coolers etc and never have room for the spare.

The spare will definately be in the back for this falls JV rokie run
Matt;
I mounted an 8" tall Tuffy drawer/box that takes up a good share of my tub. This holds my spares, strap, first aid, etc.... I welded 1/4" plate supports to the top of the box and centered a threaded bung. My 37" spare sits on top of the box and a "T" handle is used to hold it down. I still have plenty of room for other things behind the seats, on the sides of the Tuffy box and on the passenger floor. I plan on building a rack over the spare for miscellaneous lightweight items. All this and my view out the rear still won't be hindered.
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  #18  
Old 10-21-2005, 06:34 PM
Matt Pascoe Matt Pascoe is offline
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Finally got back on the swaybar project. Ordered front and rear antirocks from DC4WD and received the rear yesterday.

TJ's must route the fuel filler/vent lines different than the YJ's, I could not make the AR fit like ChrisL did without re-routing my filler lines. After looking at all of my mounting options (and a few consultations with Blaine ) I decide to run it through the frame, just behind the fuel tank.

Rather than use the entire length sleave that Currie provides I cut two sleaves about 3" long to just go through the frame:

The AR bar is about 44.5" long, my frame is 43" wide, this only leaves 3/4" of splined shaft per side to attach the 1" wide arms to.
I ground the welds down to keep my width as narrow as possible:

The bar goes just in front of and above the rear crossmember that supports the rear of the tank:

One problem with the AR located behind the tank is that the long 20" arms don't quite reach the axle cl. I wasnt real happy with having the axle link tab stick back like this, but it should work:

I was concerned that my link length would be too short and I might invert the link while flexed. The links wound up being ~9" long so I think it won't be a problem.

Thats it for now, I'll finish the other side tomorrow and see how it drives/flexes. Next week I should get the front, it will be interesting to see how a SOA front works with the AR

Matt
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Old 10-21-2005, 07:30 PM
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interesting, let us know your findings on the final set up
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Old 10-29-2005, 09:30 AM
Matt Pascoe Matt Pascoe is offline
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Heres a flex shot before the rear antirock:

And heres after the rear antirock install:

Sure killed my flex huh

If you look close you can see that my left front tire is actually stuffed further with the antirock. Just the effect I was looking for

I finished the front antirock install Thursday but have not had a chance to ramp it yet. It will be interesting to see what happens
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Old 10-29-2005, 12:15 PM
Stu Olson Stu Olson is offline
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Looks good Matt. Nice improvements to an already nice rig.
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Old 10-29-2005, 02:12 PM
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Ya what Stu said, you should have alot more control out among the rocks. Looks great.
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Old 07-13-2009, 09:00 AM
The Freak The Freak is offline
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I know this is an old thread, but I was hoping to use the pics of before and after sway bar install to prove a point on another forum.

Do you happen to have them?


thanks,

chris
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Old 07-13-2009, 07:55 PM
mrblaine mrblaine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Freak View Post
I know this is an old thread, but I was hoping to use the pics of before and after sway bar install to prove a point on another forum.

Do you happen to have them?


thanks,

chris
Chris, what are you trying to prove?
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Old 07-14-2009, 06:02 AM
The Freak The Freak is offline
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Just that in some instances a sway bar (or bars) will HELP flex, not hinder it.
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:41 PM
Matt Pascoe Matt Pascoe is offline
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Almost all of my photo links got lost in a server swap.

I'll check if I can find some backups...
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