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  #1  
Old 09-30-2003, 05:29 AM
Allen Allen is offline
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Unhappy I need a radiator.....

Starting to sound like a broken record.....

I need, I need, I need.....

This street driving sure is tough on parts!

My OEM rad is leaking in the usual place.....

Who make a nices all metal cooler that won't cost an arm and a leg.

And more importantly.....do I get one with a tranny cooler so someday it leaks and water and antifreeze ruin my tranny, or without and get an external cooler?

I'm leaning towards without and the external cooler.....

Thanks,

Allen
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  #2  
Old 09-30-2003, 06:12 AM
JLemieux JLemieux is offline
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I'll asume you have a TJ. Try to have your leak fixed. I have seen factory radiator tank seals replaced. The problem is that the aftermarket all brass/copper radiators don't cool as well as the Jeep aluminum one. I don't know the reason but i think it has someting to to with the additional fin to tube contact that a single row aluminum radiator has.
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  #3  
Old 09-30-2003, 06:14 AM
Allen Allen is offline
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It is metal and plastic. It leaks at the crimp. This is not the first time this has happened to me. They can not easly be fixed, or fixed very well for that matter.

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  #4  
Old 09-30-2003, 06:15 AM
karstman karstman is offline
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I had good luck with http://www.radiator.com
There is also http://www.radiatorbarn.com

Then there is also your local radiator shop that might build one cheaper.
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  #5  
Old 09-30-2003, 06:16 AM
JLemieux JLemieux is offline
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I'm new here. After looking a little closer i guess there was no assumption needed.
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  #6  
Old 09-30-2003, 06:20 AM
JLemieux JLemieux is offline
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I have a new all metal radiator sitting here on the floor that i took out of my jeep. It doesn't cool well enough on a hot day. I installed a factory Jeep radiator and problem is significantly reduced
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  #7  
Old 09-30-2003, 06:21 AM
Allen Allen is offline
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Radiator.com

2 row all metal $139 to my door.....

3 row all metal $159 to my door.....

What do I do?

Never replaced a radiator.....

3 row sounds good, but there's a lot of differing opinions.....

"it's too thick"

"it only cools 15% more"

blah, blah, blah.....

Allen
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  #8  
Old 09-30-2003, 06:23 AM
Allen Allen is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by JLemieux
I have a new all metal radiator sitting here on the floor that i took out of my jeep. It doesn't cool well enough on a hot day. I installed a factory Jeep radiator and problem is significantly reduced
Was it a 3 row you removed?

And I'm not picking on you or whatever.....it's just my experiences with the crimped plastic tanks have not been good, so I'm not exactly thrilled to stick another one in there only to have it leak at 25,000 miles.....where my last two have leaked.....

Allen
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  #9  
Old 09-30-2003, 06:30 AM
JLemieux JLemieux is offline
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Unless it never gets above 90 deg. where you live, Get yours fixed or get a new one from Jeep. I have a customer that had an overheating problem on hot days. He tried an all metal 2 row. then a 3 row, then a lower thermostat, then a new HD fan clutch, then a 7 blade fan. I ordered a Jeep radiator for him, he put in. The next day he came back danced a jig to celebrate the success
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  #10  
Old 09-30-2003, 06:31 AM
JLemieux JLemieux is offline
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I understand your reservations. I held my nose when I bought mine too.
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  #11  
Old 09-30-2003, 06:32 AM
karstman karstman is offline
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My stock one leaked at 84,000 mile (started ****ing fluid in Moab). I replaced it with the CSF brand 3 core all metal from www.radiator.com, but I also replaced the water pump with a flowcooler unit and the thermostat with a balanced unit at the same time. I have had zero leaks, and summer operating temps with the A/C on never go past 210 according to the factory gauge. I now have 109,000 miles on the jeep.

The benefit of the flowcooler is arguable. I have had good luck with them so I chose to install one while I was in there. I have always used Robert Shaw balanced thermostats, and I have never had one fail. I like them
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  #12  
Old 09-30-2003, 06:33 AM
karstman karstman is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by JLemieux
The problem is that the aftermarket all brass/copper radiators don't cool as well as the Jeep aluminum one. I don't know the reason but i think it has someting to to with the additional fin to tube contact that a single row aluminum radiator has.
My TJ did NOT have an aluminum radiator. It was a 2 row metal unit with crappy-a$$ plastic tanks.
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  #13  
Old 09-30-2003, 06:38 AM
Allen Allen is offline
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On my 97 TJ the upper tank leaked at the crimp right under where the top hose connects.

24,000 miles.

On this 2000.....same place.

29,000 miles.







Allen
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  #14  
Old 09-30-2003, 06:44 AM
JLemieux JLemieux is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by karstman
My TJ did NOT have an aluminum radiator. It was a 2 row metal unit with crappy-a$$ plastic tanks.

I have never seen a TJ that didn't come with aluminum core and plastic tanks from the factory. But I havn't seen every TJ
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  #15  
Old 09-30-2003, 06:54 AM
karstman karstman is offline
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At least we agree they have plastic tanks

Allen, get an all metal 2 or 3 row and be done with it.

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  #16  
Old 09-30-2003, 06:58 AM
mrblaine mrblaine is offline
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I think it a regional thing. I jumped on the 3 row all brass and copper when they became available. Put it in both mine and Kat's.

Neither one cooled as well as the stock Plastic and Metal (the stock metal is in fact aluminum).


I really wanted them to as like most of you, I had it in my mind that the plastic was bad and the stock radiator a piece of crap.

I now have that piece of crap back in my jeep and will only switch it out for a high fin count 2 row full aluminum.

I really have to keep an eye on Kat's with the 3 row brass and copper. It wants to run hot.

I get a bit more time, I will swap her's back out for another stock one.

If you want to wait a bit, there will be an exceptionally high quality brass and copper sitting around for someone to use.
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  #17  
Old 09-30-2003, 07:01 AM
Allen Allen is offline
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From what I've read it seems like you guys out West, and where it gets really hot, don't have much luck with the 3 rows.....

I think Fred had problems too. A 2 row cured his temps.....

But the problem is not in my mind.....it's leaking in my driveway.....again.

Allen
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  #18  
Old 09-30-2003, 07:13 AM
Allen Allen is offline
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My dealer wants $305 for a radiator.....

That just made up my mind for me.

Allen
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  #19  
Old 09-30-2003, 07:18 AM
karstman karstman is offline
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I still like my 3 row. It does not leak

Stock crapper is Al.....really?

It may cool better for some, but when mine starts leaking a couple thousand miles from home, on the first day of a week long moab trip, I still call it a piece o crap.


FWIW - my cross-country interstate operating temps ~are~ lower with the new radiator/pump/stat. I've done the drive from PA to CO 4 times in the TJ, and the last 2 were significanly lower with the new setup. No difference in slow speed temps though. Always been 210 according to the gauge when on the trail.
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  #20  
Old 09-30-2003, 07:30 AM
Tim Tim is offline
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and all this time i thought the stock ones were supposed to leak

up here in the wet and mud i think a two core would be the way to go since it is almost impossible to get the crud out of a 3 core.
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  #21  
Old 09-30-2003, 07:45 AM
KJP98TJ KJP98TJ is offline
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Allen lives in IL. in IL like ME, they have seasons. the stock radiators suck. period. the hot/cold let's the AL and plastic cool and heat at different rates = leak, no matter what stock radiator it is. mine leaks every fall and spring. none in the summer, and very little in the winter. it's not bad, but definately needs replacing. just not in the budget right now.

be careful with radiator.com. people are getting charged for 3 cores, and sent 2 cores. happened to 3 local people up here and there is a post on JU about it. i don't think it's a coincidence. i really don't think a 3 core is needed up/out here.
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  #22  
Old 09-30-2003, 08:03 AM
Macgyver Macgyver is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by mrblaine
I think it a regional thing. I jumped on the 3 row all brass and copper when they became available. Put it in both mine and Kat's.

Neither one cooled as well as the stock Plastic and Metal (the stock metal is in fact aluminum).


I really wanted them to as like most of you, I had it in my mind that the plastic was bad and the stock radiator a piece of crap.

I now have that piece of crap back in my jeep and will only switch it out for a high fin count 2 row full aluminum.

I really have to keep an eye on Kat's with the 3 row brass and copper. It wants to run hot.

I get a bit more time, I will swap her's back out for another stock one.

If you want to wait a bit, there will be an exceptionally high quality brass and copper sitting around for someone to use.
Now when you say wants to run hot.....how hot? 210? over 210? according to the stock guage? Just curios, because I didn't notice a darn bit of difference in my running temps when switching to the 3 row metal radiator from the stock unit. Up or down.

I replaced mine at the last minute on the way to Moab. I couldn't get a stock radiator (was under warranty at the time) due to availibility. I had mine the day after I ordered it, and installed at midnight before leaving for Moab!

With all the radiator comments, it seems that maybe there are different versions out there of the metal units? I wonder why all the varied results? I mean I live real close to John, but never had the overheating problem. I may add a real mechanical gauge to see for sure. I'm about to do the same with the oil pressure too.
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  #23  
Old 09-30-2003, 08:11 AM
mrblaine mrblaine is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macgyver
Now when you say wants to run hot.....how hot? 210? over 210? according to the stock guage? Just curios, because I didn't notice a darn bit of difference in my running temps when switching to the 3 row metal radiator from the stock unit. Up or down.

I replaced mine at the last minute on the way to Moab. I couldn't get a stock radiator (was under warranty at the time) due to availibility. I had mine the day after I ordered it, and installed at midnight before leaving for Moab!

With all the radiator comments, it seems that maybe there are different versions out there of the metal units? I wonder why all the varied results? I mean I live real close to John, but never had the overheating problem. I may add a real mechanical gauge to see for sure. I'm about to do the same with the oil pressure too.
It used to run under the 210 line consistently and now will overheat to the point where the buzzer comes on to tell you to look at the gauges.

I do know that you can run the stock one without a fan blade for a week and it will only overheat when you get into stop and go freeway traffic. BTDT with Sergey and a gone awry belly-up that pinned the blade against the fan shroud.
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  #24  
Old 09-30-2003, 08:36 AM
Allen Allen is offline
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I just ordered the 2 row.....

$139 to my door.....

For what my dealer wants I can get 2 of these.....

Told him I could buy it for almost half the $305 he wanted.....

Told me to go ahead and buy it there.....Gotta love the dealer.

My old one isn't leaking bad at all, but it has started. I will hang onto it in case of any overheating problems.

But I likely won't discover that until next summer.....

It's already in the 30s here at night.....

Allen
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  #25  
Old 09-30-2003, 08:38 AM
Jerry Bransford Jerry Bransford is offline
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The deal with the plastic and aluminum factory radiator is that once it starts leaking, it can't usually be repaired so it is leak-free again. I took my leaky factory (TJ) radiator to the dealer to get it fixed and after three attempts, the dealer gave up and installed an aftermarket radiator for me at no charge. I should add that it wasn't the dealer that actually tried to fix the leak, they took it to a local radiator shop I know to do good work. I was in that shop later and asked them about Jeep radiators and they said that they've had very little luck getting them to stop leaking once they start. It's those cheesy clamps that hold it together because plastic can't be welded to aluminum. Cooling-wise, the engine runs at the same temps as before with the aftermarket radiator. I have never noticed and never really thought to check whether a 2 or 3 row model was installed.

What are the real differences/advantages/disadvantages between 2 and 3 row radiators anyway? I've never really understood what works best in what conditions and why one would be chosen over the other.
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  #26  
Old 09-30-2003, 08:45 AM
Allen Allen is offline
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My first one was replaced under warranty.....So I didn't much care.....

This time around I'm out of warranty.....

And most local shops I called won't even touch the plastic tank crimped seal jobbies.....

Allen
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  #27  
Old 09-30-2003, 09:01 AM
Robert J. Yates Robert J. Yates is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by JLemieux
Unless it never gets above 90 deg. where you live, Get yours fixed or get a new one from Jeep. I have a customer that had an overheating problem on hot days. He tried an all metal 2 row. then a 3 row, then a lower thermostat, then a new HD fan clutch, then a 7 blade fan. I ordered a Jeep radiator for him, he put in. The next day he came back danced a jig to celebrate the success
Was this a TJ John?

That is exactly the opposite of my situation. My Jeep runs warmish and I have been chasing my tail on that ever since I got the damn thing. The original radiator was repaired at the tanks twice and on the 3rd time it went, I went to an all metal 3 row which significantly reduced my running warm problem. Actually, I was convinced my situation was solved until I added a power steering cooler inside the grill which then brought the problem right back.
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  #28  
Old 09-30-2003, 11:33 AM
TObject TObject is offline
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Actually, Copper is supped to provide better cooling than Aluminum. That is if the whole cooling surface of the aftermarket radiator was built out of cooper. Which I am pretty sure is not. Last time I checked, the fins looked like they were made of steel. Please correct me, if I am wrong.

Here are the thermal conductivity coefficients for some materials (W/m*K)

Silver 422
Copper 402
Gold 298
Aluminum 226
Steel 73.3
Lead 34.8

The best choice for a radiator material would be Silver.

Off course design of a particular radiator matters a lot too.
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  #29  
Old 09-30-2003, 11:46 AM
BlueJeeper BlueJeeper is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by TObject

The best choice for a radiator material would be Silver.


Diamond is even better than silver, by about 50% I think?

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  #30  
Old 09-30-2003, 11:54 AM
Jerry Bransford Jerry Bransford is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by TObject

Silver 422
Copper 402
Gold 298
Aluminum 226
Steel 73.3
Lead 34.8

That's also the order in which materials conduct electricity, funny how the orders in which materials conduct heat and electricity best are identical.
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