Buying a no frills off-road configured Wrangler

[bookend]

I'm new to this Jeep business and don't know a YJ from a CJ. I would like to buy a new Wrangler (is that correct terminology?) with minimum cost to take maximum advantage of $2,000 rebate. Highway travel is not important. I have 2002 Silverado and as a super senior my traveling will be minimal in the near future. Here are my thoughts and if I'm headed for the edge of a cliff please advise. Four (4) cylinder with air conditioning. Soft top. Vinyl seat covers and no back seat. Rollbar (Std?). Would like to configure top to enclose front seat only, with windows and doors off if possible and legal. Tires- What is the minimum tire package that would enhance resale. Winch- Is this a good factory option or can I get a better deal with aftermarket
supplier? What dealership has best prices? Assume big dealers buy for unknown amount well below 'Invoice'. Any help will be
appreciated. Thanks, Earl

[TObject]

Hello Earl! Welcome to jeepbbs.

That is good that highway travel is not important to you, because 4-cyl jeeps are a little low in the power department for comfortable highway driving.

The maximum tire size, you can fit in a TJ with minimal rubbing at full wheel turn (current production Jeep Wranglers are commonly referred to as TJs) is 31"x10.5"; the most popular rim size is 15" diameter, 8" wide.

Somebody should step in and recommend what is the best backspacing for such tire on a stock height TJ. I am pretty sure it's 4", but I may be mistaken.

We do not recommend steel wheels for off road driving, as they bend easily, and when you drive around with out of round wheels they place a lot of stress on bearings and other components and cause premature failures.

The bolt pattern is 5x4.5.

I am personally not aware of wheel and tire packages currently offered, you may just choose to get a deal on some new aluminum rims and tires from a tire store, and then sell the stock rims and tires on e-bay.

As far as tires themselves go, most of us prefer Goodyear MT/R. Some folks here would not run anything but BFGoodrich Krawler. Various Swampers are popular among those who play in mud.

About the tops. Take a look at Bestop Halftop:
http://www.bestop.com/halftop/index.shtml

Or if you want minimum coverage, there is Bestop Bikini Top. A special windshield channel required for the Bikini top. The drill-type channel stays on all the time; the non-drill type gets removed when you put the factory soft top back on.

Putting the factory soft top on and off is not exceptionally easy. It's not something you'd want to do often.

[Robert J. Yates]

I would advise against a 4 banger if you really want the a/c. Maybe you can tell us your reasons for wanting the 4 over the 6. I could see that if you were wanting to move the engine forward and run an additional crawler box but I didn't read that anywhere in your post. The 4 and the 6 do not get significantly different gas milage once a rig is modifed to run larger tires so I guess I'm really curious. Welcome aboard.

[John]

There's a weight savings to the 2.5L over the 4.0L and it's also easier on parts.
Best 2 reasons to have one.

[Robert J. Yates]

Originally posted by John
There's a weight savings to the 2.5L over the 4.0L and it's also easier on parts.
Best 2 reasons to have one.

yea, gotta baby that D35 turd slung underneath the rear end

[bookend]

I want to thank everyone for pitching in and getting me rolling. I love 4 cylinder engines. I have always disliked straight sixes. Until this last vehicle (Silverdo 1500) I thought air conditioning was for Wimps and now I am one. I'm assumming the four with manual will cruise these Smokies in style and surely when in four wheel mode will have sufficient torque to snap the driveshaft. I dislike auto-tran. It breaks my heart when I have to stand on the brakes to slow down in lieu of downshifting. Yes, I down shift my auto but it's not the same. I was out looking at Jeeps this afternoon and the Wrangler X was the bottom available. I was hoping to see an SE with vinyl seat covers and may be stuck in an I-6 by default. Earl

[TObject]

So, why didn't you buy a stick shift Silverado?

[bookend]

The Silverado was an impulse buy! I bought my first truck in the Fall of 2001. I had $2,000 accumulated on my GM card and they were giving a $2,000 discount. I bought an S-10 four, manual transmission and put a lid on it. I had searched for the absolute best price and think I got it. Car Dealers are without fear. I asked them about 19 times is this the total price? After assuring me this was it, they tagged me for $62.00 fee above quoted price. I couldn't believe it, sort of tickled me and I had given my Miata to my ex-girl friend's son as part of a settlement. Otherwise, I would have cancelled buy on spot after asking what part of ?is this the total price?? they didn?t understand. I drove the S-10 for 18,000 miles in six months. Out in Nevada I opened her up and somewhere around 95 she quit running. Apparently a governor is installed to protect the tires. I learned that passing decisions (2 lane) when closing at 170 mph take special evaluation before execution. Three days after my birthday I stopped at Chevy dealer asked him what was his best price and traded 6-month-old S-10 for Silverado. I never thought twice about manual with small V-8 for it was going to be my Interstate cruiser. I've stopped traveling and I live on the west side of the only hill of consequences in Knoxville and must climb and coast at least twice a day to get to Post Office, Book Store and Grocery. Earl

[Robert J. Yates]

Originally posted by bookend
I love 4 cylinder engines. I have always disliked straight sixes.

Well, maybe you need to do a bit more research because what you will find is that the Jeep straight 6 is one of the best out there. It will not give you great fuel economy but that is its only downside. Its dead nuts reliable and it produces great torque down low in the rpm range which is where you want it for off roading. It is considered to have at the least, a 150,000 mile life span before needing any rebuilding and alot of folks get much more out of them.

The 4 is an ok engine too - it has a farily high specific output for its size but the bottom line is that Jeeps are heavy - even more so when you start adding stuff to them to make them more off roadable - like armor and skid plates. That will simply bog the 4 down. Same with a/c. There is just not the reserve of power there in the 4 and you will find that you will be getting into regearing issues alot sooner than with the six in order to compensate for the lack of power.

The other thing is that with the 4, you can only get the D35 rear axle which is a POS for anything other than cruising around - it is a totally unreliable axle if you actually want to off road your Jeep. You can order or option a D44 rear axle with the 6 which is a very desireable axle to have in terms of factory strength.

[John]

IIRC, if he buys an X he's stuck with the same D35.

[Robert J. Yates]

understood - that is why I used the term "order or option"

[John]

That's not even an option that you can order on the X according to Jeeps web site

[Robert J. Yates]

understood again - hence use of those terms.

Even with a Sport, you need to order the D44 axle and most dealers do not automatically stock them. Don A Vee was one, if not the largest Jeep dealer when I bought mine in 98 and they only had 3 Sports on the lot with the 44 and even at that, they were all the way out back on the auxillary lot. Even after I had told them specifically that I wanted a 44 and a auto, they kept trying to sell me some POS on the showroom floor with a stick and a D35 because they had a ton of them

Personally, the only way I woud buy an X or an SE if that is still around, would be because I was stripping it completely and making a rock buggy out of it but then, just why not buy a used vehcile? Jeep gets away with selling the D35 turd because most people don't know what to buy or never intend to really off road their vehicle so that puts the onus on the buyer to do his/her homework first if they want the right equipment fromthe factory.

[John]

If you were going to be swapping in the D44 then the SE would still be a viable option for him based on his criteria except resale.
If it's sticking to a stock height and tire (wasn't mentioned in the first post), then even the D35 is likely to hold up indefinately for him.

[Robert J. Yates]

Originally posted by John
If it's sticking to a stock height and tire (wasn't mentioned in the first post), then even the D35 is likely to hold up indefinately for him.

BS - log onto Jpew and watch how many D35's blow up just while driving on the road

[John]

Must be a TJ thing, I wouldn't understand
Mine held up to 35's and Detroit doing full throttle assaults up a muddy and water running down it Miller Jeep trail just fine.

[Robert J. Yates]

A statistical average of 1 doesn't cut it Face it, you were lucky

[John]

I have another theory

[Robert J. Yates]

Originally posted by John
I have another theory

What, that you will defend what you bought as being the shiat, not matter how bad it really is

[John]

Defend the D35?
I'll say that it's a fine axle for most people.
My theory is more based on suspension related things. Way more TJ's bust D35's then YJ's ever have.

[Robert J. Yates]

I knew were you were going with that but I had to tease you about defending the turd , because, well you were

My view is that the control arm/link based suspension of a TJ puts alot more stress on the puny little axle shafts and subsequently into the carrier, because it locates the axle much more solidly compared to a leaf spring YJ.

[bookend]

I appreciate the great input I'm receiving. I'm going to bury the 4-cyl and go with the D44 axle. This apparently puts me into a Sport/with manual transmission. Tires and Top. Have we arrived at the best tire option with resale the primary requirement? I want a soft top and will probably run with an aftermarket top that encloses front seats and acts as tonneau cover for 1/4 ton truck portion. Further, I want to get doors off for summer fun. Lastly, Winch- Factory, Aftermarket or used. It must be an item that requires security since it looks easy to detach and is a fairly high priced. Resale isn't contemplated. However, I'm leaving my vehicle(s) to my cousin or her daughters and don't want to do something stupid that would make the vehicle difficult to sell. ?Don A Vee?, where are they located? ?Jpew? ? What would the URL be for this site? Thanks Earl

[Robert J. Yates]

Don A Vee is a Jeep dealer here in So Cal. JU is another Jeep site www.jeepsunlimited.com

Buy your winch aftermarket - it will be cheaper. You will have to work at making it theftproof though.

A 6 with a D44 rear axle is probably your best overall Jeep for the money. It will cost more than an X but you will have much better equipment which is also more durable.

[bookend]

Don: Thanks for your speed of light response. My favorite Uncle was a Yates. His family came to Southern Indiana from Appalachia. California is a little far. Anyone know of a large Jeep Dealership in St Louis or East of the Mississippi? Earl

[Robert J. Yates]

Originally posted by bookend
Don: Thanks for your speed of light response. My favorite Uncle was a Yates. His family came to Southern Indiana

First off, my name is Robert and secondly, if your uncle was from either the Gary or Munster Indiana area, we need to talk because that is where my dads' brother lived

[bookend]

Robert J. Yates: Excuse me for name blunder. I note I picked up 'Don' from dealer name. No defence- Some days I don't know my address- Senility is not a defense- I should have double checked name. Earl

[TObject]

Earl,

Just don't call him Bobby. That makes Robert mad.

[Robert J. Yates]

Originally posted by TObject
Earl,

Just don't call him Bobby. That makes Robert mad.

Eh, not really - it does make me want to extract revenge on William though