Attn: mrblaine, some WJ knuckle and general D30 questions...

[Ary'01XJ]

mr blaine, it seems that you are the resident WJ knuckle expert, so I wanted to discuss my plans with you and any others who wish to join in.

I own a 2001 XJ w/ the LP TJ axle. I got ahold of a HP 30 out of a rolled '96 XJ. It already had 4.56 gears and 297 shafts. I have a friend who is donating his tweaked WJ D30(tubes are fubared from an unfortunate landing experience) to my cause.

Because I am getting the complete axle, including rotors, calipers, and unit hubs, I was contemplating simply swapping over the whole setup from the knuckle out. However, I realize that the XJ shafts will not fit lengthwise into the shallower WJ knuckle. My proposed solution to this is to order u-jointed WJ stub shafts from the dealer. I have the part number in hand, and have been told they go for approximately 105$ a piece. I am also redoing all of the bracketry on the axle so that the LCA mounts sit flush w/ the bottom of the tube, and so that the tracbar mount is relocated to the top of the axle rather than the front. I also plan to run the stock WJ steering setup except w/ a flipped tie-rod until I can afford the PS knuckle from a right hand drive WJ.

Does all of this sound logical?? Also, does anyone know if Warn makes WJ stubshafts. It would be very nice to only have to buy the stubs once, and then just replace the stock inners. That's assuming that w/ stock 297/760 joints, stock inners, and warn outers, if I waste a setup, the warn will survive. Is that thinking skewed??

Please feel free to comment on any and all of this, and I apologize for the length. Thanks

Ary

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by Ary'01XJ
mr blaine, it seems that you are the resident WJ knuckle expert, so I wanted to discuss my plans with you and any others who wish to join in.

I own a 2001 XJ w/ the LP TJ axle. I got ahold of a HP 30 out of a rolled '96 XJ. It already had 4.56 gears and 297 shafts. I have a friend who is donating his tweaked WJ D30(tubes are fubared from an unfortunate landing experience) to my cause.

Because I am getting the complete axle, including rotors, calipers, and unit hubs, I was contemplating simply swapping over the whole setup from the knuckle out. However, I realize that the XJ shafts will not fit lengthwise into the shallower WJ knuckle. My proposed solution to this is to order u-jointed WJ stub shafts from the dealer. I have the part number in hand, and have been told they go for approximately 105$ a piece.

Are you sure those actually exist. I was of the understanding that they were not available. Hence, all of our shenanigans with spacers and such. Were it me in your circumstance, I would just weld or have the spacers welded to the knuckle for about 1/5 the cost of the new stubs. That way you can always just swap in stock XJ, TJ, MJ axleshafts or do a Warn kit with some additional mods.

I am also redoing all of the bracketry on the axle so that the LCA mounts sit flush w/ the bottom of the tube, and so that the tracbar mount is relocated to the top of the axle rather than the front. I also plan to run the stock WJ steering setup except w/ a flipped tie-rod until I can afford the PS knuckle from a right hand drive WJ.

Does all of this sound logical??

If you get your geometry correct, it sounds logical. To flip the tie rod, I would get them retapered and use the stock WJ parts. Pretty beefy and being a TRE will also space the bar up higher. Be aware that this is not easy to accomplish with 15" rims.

Also, does anyone know if Warn makes WJ stubshafts. It would be very nice to only have to buy the stubs once, and then just replace the stock inners. That's assuming that w/ stock 297/760 joints, stock inners, and warn outers, if I waste a setup, the warn will survive. Is that thinking skewed??

Please feel free to comment on any and all of this, and I apologize for the length. Thanks

Ary

Warn does not make stub shafts. But, Superior has finally released their stock alloy replacements that should suit you well for this application. They will also work with the adapted unit bearing. Mr. Hinkley just put up a link in one of the threads with a description of what we are doing for the unit bearing stuff. MJR has one also. That makes them more of the expert than me as I have only done this to Hub conversions.

[Ary'01XJ]

If I space out the stock unit bearing, what rotor do I use to achieve the 5x4.5" bolt pattern?? Also, doI space the caliper out as well?? I'll call Superior in the morning and see if they plan on making a WJ application, or if they'll custom make them. As for the stock WJ stub, WJ's overseas have them, and if need be I have a friend in England who flies back and forth frequently who could pick tem up.

My biggest question was if I use a WJ stub(assuming they exist), would this alleviate the need for all spacers etc.?? Thanks

Ary

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by Ary'01XJ
If I space out the stock unit bearing, what rotor do I use to achieve the 5x4.5" bolt pattern?? Also, doI space the caliper out as well?? I'll call Superior in the morning and see if they plan on making a WJ application, or if they'll custom make them. As for the stock WJ stub, WJ's overseas have them, and if need be I have a friend in England who flies back and forth frequently who could pick tem up.

My biggest question was if I use a WJ stub(assuming they exist), would this alleviate the need for all spacers etc.?? Thanks

Ary

You can re-drill the stock WJ rotor to 5 on 4.5. The caliper needs to be spaced out .020 if you use a .250 thick plate spacer welded to the knuckle.

Why would Superior make a WJ application? It was hard enough for them to get the TJ/XJ stuff out. You don't need custom if you adapt the knuckles. That's the whole point of doing it that way. Modify the knuckle to accept all stock TJ/XJ parts. Just use the aftermarket stock TJ replacement unit bearing with the alloy axles.

[Paradiddle]

If I remember the front of my WJ it had CV joints at the stub end - not u-joints. I highly doubt that you can get a WJ axle with u-joints (MJR would know for sure).

Another thing - the WJ axle is a little wider than a TJ/XJ/ZJ axle.

Jeff

[Mark Hinkley]

Jeff,

Didn't we use TJ outers on your WJ when we did the arb?

I think the outer TJ fit right in the WJ Knuckle. I could be mistaken. Anyhow why would you want 5 on 5 wheels? Do the conversion to TJ?XJ stuff and be done. We will be getting details of the complete setup out soon. Check out 4x4wire MJR's article is being published.

mark
orgs mfg

[Paradiddle]

Originally posted by Mark Hinkley
Jeff,

Didn't we use TJ outers on your WJ when we did the arb?

Mark,

No - we had to get a NON quadradrive WJ front axle for the short side - John was able to cut down the long side.

The Quadradrive carrier is offset (for the geroter pump) and the axles didn't work in the ARB carrier. What a pain in that ass that was.

Jeff

[Ary'01XJ]

I have dutchman shafts and lincoln rotors for my 8.25 that are already setup for 5x5.5 and 5x5. I know you can't redrill the XJ units to 5x5.5, but I was thinking I should be able to redrill the WJ stuff. I also know that US dealers claim to not be able to get the U-jointed shafts, but I also know they exist overseas, well, that's what the WJ guru's tell me at least. Some of you probably think I'm making this more difficult than it needs to be, but I'm trying to avoid using the XJ units 'cause my stock ones are toast as it is, and the WJ ones are free and in good shape. I'm also trying to avoid welding to the knuckle 'cause that costs me money because I don't feel comfortable welding to forgings. I was also under the impression that the XJ unit's outer diameter is smaller than the knuckle's opening, and therefore requires a sort of "stairstepped" spacer one dimension for depth, and one dimension for concentricity(make sense?). All that adds up to custom machining that I can't afford. I guess I'll just have to get ahold of the WJ stubs and do it, since it seems no one has done this before. Thanks

Ary

[Mark Hinkley]

What you want to do is possible as long as you have the stub shaft for the WJ. Only one spacer is needed if you weld or dowel it. The double setup is just another way of doing it. The big hole size in the knuckle is the same size dia. to center either unit bearing.

mark
orgs mfg

[Mark Hinkley]

Jeff,

Now my old memory remembers now that you have reminded me.

mark
orgs mfg

[MJR]

First off let me say that I can find no part # for U jointed WJ shafts and the catalog does list export stuff unless possibly they came from the Daimler/Steyr/Puch built WJ's made in Austria. The hubs all mount the same having the same OD that fits into the knuckle. The are several variations in XJ/YJ/ZJ/TJ/WJ hubs but they all share the same measurement from the stub axle/hub mounting to the hub/knuckle mounting so if the knuckle is shallower then the hub has to be spaced out to maintain the factory spec on ball joint to U joint relationship. The WJ axle is about 3" wider than other D30's but you might be able to have someone like Currie cut down and respline the rubber booted WJ CV front shafts to work in yours if you don't mind them.

WJ's have a 5 on 5" bolt pattern. I redrilled the WJ rotors for the 5 on 4.5" bolt pattern on my XJ. All WJ's use at least 16" wheels also to clear the brakes.

[Ary'01XJ]

The PN for the U-jointed shafts is 5012503AA. I went to the dealer today and he said he can get them in 4 days. I'll be ordering them on Monday. They're 138$ retail, 104.25 wholesale. He said they have to come from Milwaukee(whatever that means), and he also double-checked w/ the Chrysler computer to make sure they were available. I've got stock XJ stubs sittin in the garage, so I'll take those w/ me when I go to pick up the WJ stubs next Friday or so. I'll keep you posted as to how it goes. Peace

Ary

P.S. I've already got tires for 16" rims(they were free and only had 3k miles on them), and I don't think it will be too difficult to find 16" rims w/ 5x5.5 bolt pattern. Thanks for the heads up though.

[MJR]

Suggested list is $139.00. I will check into this tomorrow. It only shows this as MY 1999.

LA 1
MLW 127
BOS 4



Mike R

[MJR]

Ok here is what I have learned so far.

The parts catalog is weird.

After looking in the catalog I couldn't find the part # you listed under axle shafts but I did a search for "shaft" and in the same section I clicked on the front axles shafts (same as before without the search but different results) and found a different page/illustration which lists the part # you gave.

According to the catalog it is a outer stub axle and shows in the illustration as a U jointed one but the pictures often don't match the real part. It lists this as being for a 99 WJ with Selec-Trac but I checked one on the lot and it is the rubber CV style.

I also did a search for # 5012504AA (complete right shaft for the same thing) and # 5012505AA (complete left shaft for the same thing). Both supercede to # 5012456AB and # 5012457AB which are the same rubber CV shafts for 99 WJ with the Quadra-Trac II.

I should be getting some other information through some DC engineers on this hopefully on Monday. My guess is that part # (5012503AA) is actually a outer stub for the rubber CV shaft but you could order one to find out if you don't want to wait for me to get more information.

[Ary'01XJ]

Don't get paid till Monday anyhow, so I'll wait and see what you've got. Thanks

Ary

[Ary'01XJ]

Mike, any thing to report?? Thanks

Ary

[karstman]

I'm interested in this as well. The HP30 I went to pick up this past weekend was indeed out of a 98 XJ.... a 98 XJ that had burned up in a great ball of fire.

I trust nothing that has been on fire, so back to the drawing board for the time being.

I ended up pulling the TJ30 and dismembering it.
I've started looking into this a little, and I found the same part numbers and a few folks that swear these exist.

Guess we'll see soon
Mark

[MJR]

Originally posted by Ary'01XJ
Mike, any thing to report?? Thanks

Ary

Sorry I haven't heard anything back yet. Engineers can be slow. If you are going to order one to look at see if they will take it back if it isn't what you want. I will post as soon as I hear anything and if you are going to order one let us know what you find.

[MJR]

Ok I just got a answer from Detroit. It is a rubber booted CV outer stub not a U jointed one according to the axle engineer and he said WJ's will only have rubber booted CV shafts.

[Ary'01XJ]

Including ones from overseas?? I was aware that all WJs in the states don't have U-joints, but everyone in the WJ community says they do overseas. Also the part # I gave you is not a valid US part, but is a valid Chrysler part which led me to believe it might be the correct stub. Thanks for looking into this. I may go ahead and order one just for sh!ts and giggles. They don't make me keep it if it's not what I want, so I don't lose anything. Thanks again

Ary

[MJR]

No problem I want to know myself. The engineers are involved in the vehicle program which includes overseas markets. The one the information came from is the WJ front axle engineer. If you find otherwise just let us know.

[Ary'01XJ]

Thanks Mike, I have a sinking feeling in my stomach that I'm gonna be wrong and waste my time, but I think I may go ahead and order one anyway. Can't hurt anyting. Every once in a while I get lucky when I don't listen to people and it actually pays off. Most of the time it doesn't though(is it true what they say about it being a teenage thing? or will I probably stay this stubborn for the rest of my life? ). Anyway, I'll let you know when they get here. Peace

Ary