Thinking about what's the best next step...

[Jerry Bransford]

Ok, looks like I'll be resuming my wheeling again, especially since going back into the M-F workforce as of yesterday.

Here's what I can't figure out... with nearly 165,000 miles on my clutch, I'm pretty certain it'll go bad this year. That means I have to make a transmission decision soon since I really want to convert to an automatic.

If I go 3-speed auto, my 4.88 gears will be an issue on the street... and my TJ is my daily driver so those high RPMs would mean I either need to regear (too expensive) or go to 37" tires. Will the new beefier knuckles I'm getting with the new brakes combined with my Currie front-end hold up to 37" tires?

If I go 4-speed auto as Stu did, I'm not sure I'm up to that level of installation... even with all the great installation directions Stu has assembled. There's a lot to that conversion, or am I just making a mountain out of a molehill? This would be my first choice if I had a magic wand to make it happen.

OR... and this is in dead-last place so far as what I want to do... replace the clutch and install either an Atlas or Tera 4:1. I have the $$$ for the Atlas so that'd probably be how I'd go if I ended up keeping the 5-speed which I REALLY don't want to do.

I'm leaning towards the 3-speed auto but my present 4.88 gearing has me concerned so I guess I'm just wondering if with the new knuckles if my front-end will hold up to 37" tires I'd install to lower those RPMs. Hmmmmmmmm....

[igofshn]

Replace clutch and do a tera lo conversion. You can do any needed maintnance on your tcase that is needed (new chain) while it is apart. This would probably be your cheapest and easiest way to go. I have a tera lo and love it.

[pcoplin]

If I were doing an automatic, I would take the extra time with the AW-4, and modify the shifter to lock it into 1st gear. It's a solid transmission that will last a long time.

Of course, actually faced with sourcing all the parts might deter me. I have a 4 cylinder, so I can't relate to your predicament.

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by Jerry Bransford
Ok, looks like I'll be resuming my wheeling again, especially since going back into the M-F workforce as of yesterday.

Here's what I can't figure out... with nearly 165,000 miles on my clutch, I'm pretty certain it'll go bad this year. That means I have to make a transmission decision soon since I really want to convert to an automatic.

If I go 3-speed auto, my 4.88 gears will be an issue on the street... and my TJ is my daily driver so those high RPMs would mean I either need to regear (too expensive) or go to 37" tires. Will the new beefier knuckles I'm getting with the new brakes combined with my Currie front-end hold up to 37" tires?

If I go 4-speed auto as Stu did, I'm not sure I'm up to that level of installation... even with all the great installation directions Stu has assembled. There's a lot to that conversion, or am I just making a mountain out of a molehill? This would be my first choice if I had a magic wand to make it happen.

OR... and this is in dead-last place so far as what I want to do... replace the clutch and install either an Atlas or Tera 4:1. I have the $$$ for the Atlas so that'd probably be how I'd go if I ended up keeping the 5-speed which I REALLY don't want to do.

I'm leaning towards the 3-speed auto but my present 4.88 gearing has me concerned so I guess I'm just wondering if with the new knuckles if my front-end will hold up to 37" tires I'd install to lower those RPMs. Hmmmmmmmm....

If you quit driving with your rearview mirror and look out the front like you're supposed to, 65 ain't that bad.

Your issue with 37's ain't the knuckle. Ask Scott hill. He had the same philosophy and is more than happy to be back on 35's.

[Stu Olson]

I had to chuckle on that one.....I drive 65 MPH virtually all the time on the freeway, even though the speed limits over here are usually 75 MPH (except for those stretches going through the metro areas).

I've done that AW4 swap two times now. The first was done on the garage floor with ScottK, albeit there were portions of it I didn't help with. I was fortunate to be able to do mine on a vehicle lift and that made it easier. I'm sure most of the folks have done them in their driveway or garage.

I have a Tera low and love it too. It goes very well with the auto.

[Robert J. Yates]

Do the 5.0 Atlas and your clutch at the same time Jerry. This will be the easiest and most cost effective way for you to get the crawl ratio you are after.. The rest of your musings are simply asking for trouble should you choose to pursue the 37's. You don't have the axles to run them reliably.

Joe Dillard put a nice little write-up in tech a few days ago. That makes at least 3 guys on this board running the stick and 5.0.

[Iceman]

if you're geared low enough, there's little wrong with a stick shift

If you got the dough for it, like you mentioned, get the Atlas or the STaK and just swap the clutch while you've got the stuff apart.

Even though my clutch is still A-okay at 73k miles, they'll be swapping it now that my engine needs replacing ...

[NAILER341]

jerry, the atlas 5.0 is a great way to go. i i were doing it today, i'd likely do the four speed atlas just for the hell of it. the cost diference isnt enough to rule it out.

bearing cost in mind, you could likely pay someone else to get that 4 speed auto into your jeep for the price of the atlas
so if you really want to have an auto... have at it.

the low gearing from the atlas, or similar case will keep you out of trouble for the most part, but you'll still have to use the clutch to stop. this can sometimes cost you the line on some of the more technical trails out there

it is also easier to break things. easier because of the incredible torque you have as well as the fact that you find yourself in tougher positions having the ability to get there

[Jerry Bransford]

Awesome advice guys, thank you very much for your really helpful comments. At least the 37" tire thing is now out of the question so thanks for clearing that up.

The Atlas is VERY tempting but so is the AW4. I'm between those two now. The Atlas would be a lot easier but I'd like the AW4 better overall. I'll pick Blaine's brain tomorrow, that'll help though it looks like he's already sided on the 3-speed. 65 mph max with that tranny and my 4.88 gears though? Hmmm... that'd be tough with the amount of driving I have to do for work and the 75 mph speeds of my freeways.

[igofshn]

Jerry,

Do you really want to spend the money on an atlas for the little amount you really wheel. Atlas $2300, Teralo under $1000.

[Jerry Bransford]

Originally posted by igofshn
Jerry,

Do you really want to spend the money on an atlas for the little amount you really wheel. Atlas $2300, Teralo under $1000.

Good thought Al, but I'm looking forward to more wheeling again. This is possible after getting back into a M-F job again (I quit my Mossy Nissan job Friday) and old issues at home about my being gone so many weekends wheeling looking like they're settling down now.

[Britain]

Jerry,
I'll have an atlas 4 spd in and hopefully up n running in the next week or so. I think I'll be in San Diego in a couple of weeks . If you want to test it for feel let me know.

The TC is 2:72:1 3:8:1 10:34:1

[JLemieux]

How would you like a 700R4 auto. I have one that would fit your TJ with just about everything you would need except the trans cooler and lines.

[Jerry Bransford]

Originally posted by JLemieux
How would you like a 700R4 auto. I have one that would fit your TJ with just about everything you would need except the trans cooler and lines.

Um, I'm no expert on that tranny but from the ordeal a JeepBBS member went through installing his 700R4 a few years ago, I'm not sure if I should be interested or not. Details on what you have and what the install is like would help. And doesn't that tranny need a modification for the required crankshaft position sensor?

[JLemieux]

Jerry,
Give me call and I can go over everything with you.
John
951-277-1037

[Jerry Bransford]

Originally posted by JLemieux
Jerry,
Give me call and I can go over everything with you.
John
951-277-1037

Looks like I called after your shop closed, I'll have to call you next week as I'm in a school the rest of this week. Or call me at night, I left a message on the shop's ans. mach. with my home phone #. Thanks John.

[Joe Dillard]

Jerry, good luck on whichever route you decide..........but in the meantime feast your eye's on these Atlas 4 speeds that I took pics of while I was at Advance Adapters a few weeks ago.





Incase anybody was wondering what an Atlas looks like inside:

[Jeff Weston]

Originally posted by Jerry Bransford
Um, I'm no expert on that tranny but from the ordeal a JeepBBS member went through installing his 700R4 a few years ago, I'm not sure if I should be interested or not. Details on what you have and what the install is like would help. And doesn't that tranny need a modification for the required crankshaft position sensor?

Jerry,

You're probably referring to my dad's installation of a 700R4 which was an ordeal in his YJ. If the "kit" John is mentioning is the same stuff he was looking to sell earlier, it should be much easier and cheaper for you. IIRC, his stuff was very reasonably priced. My dad started with all new parts that were expensive. I think the two adaptors were nearly $1000.

The nice thing about the 700R4 is that you don't have to mess around with the wiring like you do with the AW4.

[chef]

The aw4 shifter the guy on pirate sells is crazy easy to install. It's got 4 wires and the instructions tell you which color goes where...it worked the first time The guy is working on a new style of shifter, paddles and a regular shifter style, my buddy used the turn knob style. comes with a torque converter lockout switch as well...sorta kills the point of an auto, although I didn't really pay attention, it may still shift like an auto still. At the very least, it got the aw4 running rather quickly and easily, my buddy has the computer to control it, he's just saving the install for a few rainy days after everything else is taken care of.

[Stu Olson]

The AW4 shifter from Brett is quite nice. He has a couple of versions out. I'm waiting on the new one (his prototype didn't make it through all of my testing before developing an issue) which is due out in about a week.

It allows you to up and down shift with just two buttons.....or you can put it in automatic and use the AW4 the way it was designed. The best of both worlds.

If you can work your way through a simple DC circuit, you can wire the AW4 harness into a Jeep, especially with the easy to follow chart that I included in my write-up. If you can't follow it, it puts you into the same category of not being able to install LED tail lights for Hella off-road lamps. LOL

Once thing about the AW4 (aside from it working very well) is that it is a cheap install....and finding a low mileage XJ with an AW4 is not that hard, given the socker Mom wrecks that are in the junk yard. My AW4 had 10K original miles on it when it was installed in my TJ. Cost of the tranny was about $400.....or maybe it was $300....I forget now.

[Dan-H]

Originally posted by Jeff Weston
Jerry,

You're probably referring to my dad's installation of a 700R4 which was an ordeal in his YJ.

I thought Jerry was remembering Seth's swap into his TJ.

[Jerry Bransford]

Originally posted by Dan-H
I thought Jerry was remembering Seth's swap into his TJ.

Yep, exactly. I mainly remember some floor cutting Seth had to do but there were other significant installation issues too.

An AW4 would still be my first choice but Blaine reminded me yesterday that there still may not be a cure for the potential Check Engine Light problem that would prevent my TJ from passing the bi-annual smog test required here in California. Last time I checked, I didn't get a warm and fuzzy feeling on that CEL issue.

[Stu Olson]

Jerry, you seem to bring that issue up time and time again. I'm confident I've addressed it in at least one other forum, but none the less, I'll try it.

My CEL is NOT illuminated....it is totally functional, comes on when something happens, just like it should, comes on when you turn on the ignition (the smog folks look for that), etc.

If you do not connect the AW4 tranny computer's comm lines to the TJ computer, it won't talk to the TJ computer and confuse the heck out of it when you move the shifter.

Since your TJ computer has no concept of what an AW4 computer is suppose to be used for, it doesn't miss it....it doesn't even want it.

And if you somehow manage to rewrite your PCM firmware so that it does understand the tranny computer, connect the wires and you are back in business.

[Jerry Bransford]

You cleared it that up once and for all, thanks Stu. I'll blame my elderly memory on that. Hmm, I seem to be doing that more and more lately.

I also just finished speaking with John Lemieux about his 700R4 that may be a good way for me to go. I'll know in the next few days if we can come to an agreement which will may have his shop in Corona installing it for me.

[Robert J. Yates]

Originally posted by Jerry Bransford
Yep, exactly. I mainly remember some floor cutting Seth had to do but there were other significant installation issues too.

The primary issue was the CPS and the fact that the relocation kit available from AA at the time was a bit spendy. The rest of Seths' install was rather un-eventful.

If you really want the auto....I highly suggest you work out a deal with John. He had the tranny in his Jeep and he also does quality work.

[Jeff Weston]

I quoted John's post below from last November. If this is the same or near same deal, it is a steal! The adaptors alone are bucks and he has it so you don't have to deal with relocating the CPS to the crank. Even the flexible Lokar tube is spendy, let alone the adaptors. My dad spent probably twice that amount for his stuff. This is a score.

700R4 trans and conversion parts for a TJ. This includes:

-Newly rebuilt trans (zero miles) with all updated internal parts
-Torque converter w/cover
-Engine adapter plate (4.0)
-Transfercase adapter and shaft (installed and assembled) for a NP231 or Atlas (23 spline)
-Fabricated trans mount for NP231 t-case or Atlas
-Lokar steel braided dipstick tube and throttle valve cable
-Modified factory flex plate with crank position sensor installed in trans (no harmonic balancer / crank position sensor relocation needed)
-Shifter cable brackets for factory jeep auto trans shift cable
-Foot switch to lock and unlock torque converter clutch

You will need to complete this conversion:

-Trans cooler lines (has fittings for -6 steel braided lines)
-Jeep auto trans shifter
-Possible drive line modifications (trans is approx. 1.25? longer than a stock 5 speed)

I have $1700 in the trans, rebuild & updates alone
$2100 for everything
Located in Corona, Ca. - No shipping available
(951)277-1037
John