Finally reached a pinnacle

[mrblaine]

Originally Posted by CliffDweller

Interesting, when I called Van about an upgrade for my kit he told me to purchase the EBC pads from the internet.

Early in the testing of the pads, Van was paying retail for the pads just like everyone else. It's only in the last few months that he's been able to get them at a discount by buying in volume.

[TJeeper]

I thought I would add in my thoughts with my recent brake upgrades. I haven't gotten everything dialed in yet perfectly, but I am getting close. Previously I was running Van's hydroboost with a 1 1/8" bore MC, along with the original 15" Big Brake kit with the Centric ceramic pads. After speaking with Blaine he suggested I swap out the MC for one with a 1" bore and upgrade the calipers to the larger (46mm?) ones that come with the 16" kit, along with a set of EBC green pads. I called up Van, got my order in and I got it installed a couple weeks ago. The first piece of advice I would give is not to put a new set of tires on when testing out brake mods. That didn't help, but I rarely get any free time around my house. It was looking like I might have to wait a couple months to get the new MTRs on. I wanted to make sure they were on before March (we get the most snowfall in March, and in case we get a blizzard- the old tires were almost bald).



The first thing I noticed is the feel of the brake pedal changed. Previously the pedal was very stiff- AKA hydroboost pedal. You get about 1"-2" of travel, then it is hard. Now the pedal goes about 1/2 way down before it stiffens up, it actually feels a lot like the pedal in my stock ZJ. I broke in the pads, let them cool down and decided to try a moderate stop. In the ZJ to get the brakes to work (at least before adding Van's kit- but that is another thread) I press down on the pedal to the part where it stiffens up then moderate it depending how quickly I need to stop. So I tried the same on the TJ- and I locked up the front (these were the old broken in tires). This is nice.

I have found the hydroboost pedal is gone. The brake pedal is a lot more like it was when stock, only a lot more powerful. I now brake with my heel resting on the floor, no more lifting my foot up to jam on the pedal. Sitting at a stoplight is much nicer also, I just have to rest my foot against the pedal, much less effort is needed even on hills. I have also found I can lock up the front brakes with slightly more than 1/2 of the pedal. In the past when I towed a M416 trailer the brakes were just about maxed out. It seems like I have a lot more stopping power for towing, but I will have to wait until this summer to confirm it.

The second realization I have come to is the bias has changed. Assuming that putting in the new MC didn't affect the bias, I can only conclude that the new calipers and pads have affected it. What I have noticed is my rear brakes no longer working. I have a Wilwood adjustable proportioning valve plumbed in the rear line after the combo valve. This is necessary with hydroboost, otherwise the rear brakes lock up first because of the higher pressure in the lines. After driving around on the new tires for a couple weeks I notice the rears aren't looking scuffed up at all. I had them siped, it is obvious when I have locked up a tire or been braking hard on them, the tread where the cuts are start to fold in on each other. But the rears looked pristine. I also had an issue where the rear discs were squeaking loudly, they never did that before the swap- and I have had them for over five years now. I backed out the knob on the proportioning valve- as of now I have gone ~1.5 turns. The squeak has mostly gone away and now the rear tires are starting to get some wear on them. Adjusting the bias isn't as simple as keeping the rears from locking up on flat pavement, downhill stopping needs to be accounted for also. (Nothing like locking up the rear tires on an emergency stop- you don't want to let up because the fronts aren't locked up- but it is LOUD. ) I find it interesting how the new calipers and pads are doing more work than before with the same amount of pressure.

A big thank you goes out to Blaine and Van, I can't believe how good these brakes are. It's funny, every time I talk to Blaine, he always asks- how are your brakes? My answer is great, couldn't be better. Blaine answers- yes they can. And he is right. Now there is talk about a new set of yellow pads, I don't think Blaine will ever find his pinnacle.

[TJeeper]

I have an update- actually it is quite embarrassing. I had been having a problem getting the front brakes to work evenly. The right always locked up before the left. The first thing I would think would be the problem is air in the left line, except I spent A LOT of time bleeding the brakes with the new calipers (several hours over the course of many days) and I was convinced that wasn't the problem. It was.

I had spoken to Van about the difficulty of bleeding the new calipers, I speculated air was getting in the bleed valve. I use the procedure of open valve, have someone press hard on brake pedal, close valve, slowly release brake pedal. Van suggested putting pressure on the pedal before opening the bleed valve. Seems obvious now. I bled the left line again, and got some air out.

So what happened to the brake pedal? The bad news is the hydroboost pedal is back, I lost that soft pedal that firmed up half way down. The good news is the pedal feel is still better than before. I can still brake with my heel on the floor. I can feel the brakes grab while in that first 2"-3" of brake pedal movement, and when sitting at a light it takes very little effort to hold the Jeep. I don't have to raise my foot off the floor unless I am doing a hard stop. So all in all it is still an improvement.

[Lawrence]

Since I recently moved to the frozen tundra, I figured I'd update this thread. I know folks have been using these brakes in various temps, but here it was about -10F to -17F the first few days with my TJ and the brakes worked flawlessly.

The garage we are currently using is not heated and my Jeep sits in an open air parking lot all day at work. Every day, from the very first stop and being as cold as they can get, the brakes work miracles. I actually have to be gentle with the pedal so not to go sliding everywhere since the roads out of community are covered with about 2" of ice. That makes for some interesting driving.

I haven't noticed any braking loss whatsoever compared to when I lived in SoCal. Speaking of SoCal, last June we went wheeling in BB and I pulled my 2,000 lbs camper up and down the mountain in 106F weather. No brake fade all the way down, I couldn't even tell the difference from the top of the mountain to the bottom.
Hot/really hot/cold/insanely cold, it doesn't matter, these brakes rule. For anyone not yet convinced, these are the pinnacle of braking.
Thanks again to Blaine and Van for an outstanding product.

[Deaver]

So, would one with knowledge recommend this brand (EBC) as a excellent choice for replacement pads for a 2005 Dodge 3500 Dually that typically carries a Lance camper and trailers a Jeep?

Just an East Coast inquiring mind

[mrblaine]

Originally Posted by Deaver

So, would one with knowledge recommend this brand (EBC) as a excellent choice for replacement pads for a 2005 Dodge 3500 Dually that typically carries a Lance camper and trailers a Jeep?

Just an East Coast inquiring mind

Just not sure yet. They work better than any pad I've ever seen, but if you overheat them enough to produce smoke after they are broken in, they are trash as in throw them away and start over.

I'll be looking at the Severe Duty pads from Napa with the red labels on the end of the box when I replace the ones on my 05.