What would you do in this situation?

[TJRON]

I think Camaro should read this again or for the first time, what ever applys........

Just for the sake of discussion, suppose Scott's gay friend had also confided that he was most attracted to male children. Would any of the above responses have been different?

I think it was sometime in the 1970's that the American Psychological Assn. changed their previous opinion, that homosexuality was a psychological disorder. This being the case, it is difficult to state with certainty that something which is considered not normal today will indeed be considered as such in the future. It seems to me that what we are looking at here is a kind of creeping incrementalism, where yesterday's taboos become today's mainstream.

No, but hetero child molesters do not have their own politically active lobby group, such as the gay's do with NAMBLA (North American Man-Boy Love Association), which is a prominent component of the gay liberation movement. And their main focus of activity is to lower the age of consent. A lot.

You might consider also the lessons to be learned from the Catholic clergy sex scandal. Although less than one percent of all priests nationwide had been accused of wrongdoing, ( which is lower than other groups such as teachers, or counselors), of that one percent, nearly 95% of those involved were accused of sexual contact with adolescent boys. This is something that has not been very well brought to light by the media. The point is, this molestation of children is far more prevalent among gays than heteros, especially when you consider that gays comprise only 5 to 10 percent of the population.

What you find so objectionable in NAMBLA is the obvious next step, since what society condones now was not condoned by the consensus of those who lived in previous decades. Step by incremental step, society is being transformed right before your eyes. Consider television when it first emerged in the 50s, with innocent fare such as " The Lone Ranger," "I Love Lucy," etc. What do you think the reaction of the viewing public at that time would have been to the shows that appear on every channnel today? This did not occur overnight, but instead required a long period of desensitization. Same with this. NAMBLA is an integral part of the gay movement. And once the gay taboo is broken down, this will be next in line to mainstream. Of course, it is not this alone, but an overall revolution of societal norms which began in the 60s and has gained momentum ever since. My only point is that if one accepts the proposition that there are no moral absolutes, then the envelope will be pushed ever further to the left, such that those things which appear repugnant by even today's liberal standards, will not appear so bad to those in the future.

You say "certain boundaries will be upheld"? Do you really believe that? Before WWI, no one believed that armies would massacre each other by the millions in trench warfare with posionous gas. Before WWII, no one could imagine that 6 million Jews could be rounded up and killed like so much cattle, or that historical gems like Dresden would be firebombed or that civilian population centers such as Hiroshima or Nagasaki would be nuked. And before Roe vs. Wade, no one would have imagined that the leglislative decisions of elected state lawmakers would be rendered null and void by an act of the U.S. Supreme Court, which by a 5-4 margin legalized abortion, which, to date, has resulted in the deaths of over 40 million unborn children. Certainly any nation that is willing to permit the slaughter which is abortion is capable of permitting "sexual freedom" to young children. It is only a matter of time.

The trouble is, once moral absolutes are gone, there is really not much remaining to block the entrance of anything. Perhaps if, as you seem to think, I suffer from "homophobia," then I guess one could say that you are afflicted by Christophobia, a deep and abiding fear of Christian moral standards.

As Bob Dylan so astutely observed, the times they are a'changin.

Of course illegal abortions were available before Roe, but not at the rate of 4000 murdered per day, and not as the law of the land. Imagine that first degree murder had been legalized. The revolution in morality is that significant, since there is no limit to abortion. A mother who is nine months pregnant, with a perfectly viable and healthy infant, for no reason whatsoever, can take her child to an abortionist, who will provide her with a partial birth abortion. A grisley procedure. In short, the child is inverted in the womb, the body is withdrawn such that the child is 80 percent born, and then a suction tube is inserted at the base of the skull, sucking the skull dry, at which point is collapses. Then the dead child is withdrawn and thrown into a dumpster. And this may be legally performed at any point up to natural childbirth. So much for the "fetal tissue" argument. We obviously disagree as to the "boundaries to be crossed" question. You think that the boundary regarding the sexuality of children won't be crossed. And I reply that if a mother has the legal right to murder her own unborn child, then a far greater boundary has been crossed already. Ethicists are already preparing the groundwork for the argument that the humanity of a child is not truly established until they attain the age of 2 or 3, since only at that age can they really interact with others. Thus, just like an unborn child, the toddler is not really human at all, and should have no right to life whatsoever. And these academics are not reclusive quacks---if memory serves me correctly, one is a well known and respected member of the teaching staff at Harvard. Suffice it to say that it is only a short time until the gay marriage boundary will be crossed. The world has always been in flux, but moral issues such as the ones discussed have never in past times been violated as they have today. Technological advances in and of themselves are neutral, it is in their application that they can be evaluated. The harvesting of parts of unborn children for medical applications is but one more example of the horrors of the culture of death.

I would hardly be one to belittle the problems of the Catholic Church. In fact, their problems with clerical ephebofilia relate directly to the disobedience of American bishops to heed the directive from Rome, sent out in 1962, warning of the dangers of the admission of gay seminarians. As I have said before, it is estimated that roughly 10 to 20 percent of the clergy are gay, and yet close to 95% of the cases of priestly abuse concern adolescent males. The gays factor rather highly in this, wouldn't you say? As to the "renaissance of sin," please see my msg to mrblain. " And Rick, if I were you I would refrain from the cheap personal insults. It only weakens an otherwise intelligent post.

And Scott, not to forget you in all of this discussion, a few words of advice. Seeking counsel on moral issues from a jeep forum is about as useful as asking your pastor for help in wrenching on your jeep. Each one has their own area of expertise. These are well meaning people, but they have a different take on the Christian religion than you do. I am sure that most people are familiar with the gay lifestlye advocacy group called "Dignity." Far less known is another group comprised of recovering homosexuals called "Courage." These are individuals who have been able to extricate themselves from the homosexual lifestyle, and are available to help other who wish to do so, much like AA assists those who are alcoholics who sincerely wish to turn around their lives. I recommend that you contact both your pastor and "Courage" for counsel as to how to best handle your relationship with your friend, and how you can best help him out.


I am sure that you would steer him to the best of your knowledge, and I know that you have his best interests at heart. But I doubt that your religious convictions are congruent with his. And this is both a moral and a religious question.

Not to disparage your belief system, as I am sure that it works quite well for you. But I think that you have noticed as well as I that not a single response has been directed to Scott that is consonant with his own personal religious and moral heritage. And since this is a religious and moral issue, I think that he would be well served by consulting with his pastor. And those at "Courage" as well.

It is unfortunate that thru lack of anything of substance to contribute, you are reduced to juvenile attempts at slander and character assassination. Your anti-Christian hatred and bigotry could not be any more transparent.

Yes, you are wrong about that. Both with the gay lifestyle and abortion, it is not the sin in itself, but rather the legalization and legitimization of it.

When it comes to wrenching on Jeeps, do you consider your personal opinion to be no more appropriate than the opinion of another member who has just purchased his very first jeep?

You asked how to pay for the 4000 children killed daily. First of all, how do we provide for those thousands of children born daily whose mothers either do not want them or are not able to care for them? Do we kill them, or do we make provisions for adoption? Remember that partial birth abortion can be performed on a healthy, viable infant anytime up until natural birth, and it involves the child being 80% born and then the brains are sucked out. What is the difference in your mind between a child 80% born, and another 100% born? Is one more human, more deserving of life than the other?

Second, liberalize and streamline adoption procedures, reduce the bureaucracy, such that those who wish to adopt will find it that much easier to do so. Also, ensure that once the natural mother has voluntarily signed off on her infant, the adoptive parents can rest assured that the mother will not be interfering in the childs life in the future. Seal the books on the adoption.

Additionally, the state of Texas has leglislation in place that guarantees that any child born will be provided for. This could be model leglislation for other states as well. If illegal aliens are granted admission to unemployment and welfare rolls, certainly some state assistance could be extended to U.S. citizens who happen to be newborn infants.

Finally, as far as far as saying that "anyone who does not conform to my beliefs is socially unacceptable, " it seems to me from the responses generated here that anyone who does not conform to the pro-gay agenda is not only socially unacceptable but vilified and disparaged as well. Not much room for inclusiveness and diversity of thought in this community, or so it seems. And it is unfortunate that the sympathy you extend to gays you are unable to extend to the basic right to life of the unborn child, who you appear to consign to the dumpster.

Do you have the same theological expertise and world view as Scott's pastor, or do you have life experiences similar to members of Courage? If so, then perhaps your opinion on this issue will be of equal value to Scott. If not, then it may be of lesser value. But now that he has heard from all of us, it is time for him to arrive at his own decision.

You have confirmed with great eloquence the point that I had previously made. I am sorry that your bitterness seems to have no bounds.

[Sephiroth]

ok i got it figured out !!!!! Scott your gay and there is no friend and you just want to see if we will accept you.

[TObject]

We accept you Scott! And Don has a soft spot for all gay people (it's his ass hole).


Just kidding!

[Scott]

Man.. Did this thread every get out of control.. I guess I kinda expected it to. Anyway, Thanks to all that made DECENT remarks, aside from Mr. Cool guy CAMARO, and instature were talking about, I appreciate everything. And to say that those two have the same beliefs as I is ridiculous. I have come to accept this just fine, and I appreciate all the support. I've talked to Jason many times since I found this out, and I am going to meet his "friend" here shortly. I know that is going to be akward, but he knows how I feel about the situation, and I will deal with it acordingly. Thank you to all the fellow Christians who understand where I am coming from, and this thread is an example of why I like this board so much. Im gonna save this, so moderators, please let it sit in the archives so I can read over it if need be. Thanks again guys,
Scott

[Paradiddle]

Originally posted by TObject
We accept you Scott! And Don has a soft spot for all gay people (it's his ass hole).


Just kidding!

Who is moderating this forum???? Sergey - I am crying I'm laughing so hard.

How is it you can deviate the rules and type the word a$$?

Jeff

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by Paradiddle


Who is moderating this forum???? Sergey - I am crying I'm laughing so hard.

How is it you can deviate the rules and type the word a$$?

Jeff

If you own the place, sometimes you get to make your own rules. Be glad you and donnie don't share the same tender affectation of affections.

[Sephiroth]

Originally posted by TObject
We accept you Scott! And Don has a soft spot for all gay people (it's his ass hole).


Just kidding!

[Sephiroth]

Originally posted by mrblaine
If you own the place, sometimes you get to make your own rules. Be glad you and donnie don't share the same tender affectation of affections.

[TJRON]

Originally posted by TObject
We accept you Scott! And Don has a soft spot for all gay people (it's his ass hole).


Just kidding!

Too good to moderate!

My sick funny bone has completely taken over my body........
Bwaahahahaha!

[cbassett]

Originally posted by Scott Im gonna save this, so moderators, please let it sit in the archives so I can read over it if need be. Thanks again guys,
Scott [/B]

Good for you Scott!

It would be good to hear back from you after you meet your best friend's "signifigant other".

[Scott]

Originally posted by cbassett
Good for you Scott!

It would be good to hear back from you after you meet your best friend's "signifigant other".

Chris,
I will definetly let you guys know how it goes, and I will let you know what Im feelin then too
Scott

[NAILER341]

Originally posted by TObject
We accept you Scott! And Don has a soft spot for all gay people (it's his ass hole).


Just kidding!

somebody must have watched the "roast" last night

[TObject]

Originally posted by NAILER341
somebody must have watched the "roast" last night

[cbassett]

Originally posted by Scott
Chris,
I will definetly let you guys know how it goes, and I will let you know what Im feelin then too
Scott

So Scott, what's the update on this?


(Blame Blaine for linking this thread on the dark side, I didn't go searching for this. )