Here's why we will lose

[mrblaine]

our access to our beloved trails.

Being the devious bastard that I am, I figure the only way to learn the habits of your enemies is to subscribe to their newletters and read what they are spouting as gospel.

So, I get this e-mail, bear in mind I haven't had time to dissect all of it, I just want everyone to pay attention to the bolded part.

The Forest Service has released draft plans for managing our
southern California national forests that would open them up to
more off-road vehicles, oil and gas drilling, and other
activities harmful to imperiled species and ecosystem health.

Your help is needed to let the Forest Service know that it must
do far better in protecting our national forests - the Angeles,
Cleveland, San Bernardino, and Los Padres -- for future
generations.

You can take action on this alert via the web at:
http://actionnetwork.org/campaign/4_...3nin36zpjwxtw3

Visit the web address below to tell your friends about this.
http://actionnetwork.org/campaign/4_...3nin36zpjwxtw3

We encourage you to take action by September 10, 2004

Act Now to Protect Southern California Forests

INSTRUCTIONS TO RESPOND VIA THE WEB:
If you have access to a web browser, you can take action on this
alert by going to the following URL:

http://actionnetwork.org/campaign/4_...3nin36zpjwxtw3

Your letter will be addressed and sent to:
Southern California Forest Plan Revisions USDA Forest Service
Content Analysis Center

----THIS LETTER WILL BE SENT IN YOUR NAME----
Dear [decision maker name automatically inserted here],

Southern California's native plants and animals are threatened
by ever-increasing urbanization and industrialization,
pollution, off-road vehicle use, invasions of non-native
species, and other human-caused damage ecosystem function. The
Cleveland, San Bernardino, Angeles, and Los Padres National
Forests have become vital refuges for endangered, threatened,
and sensitive species. These forests also provide clean drinking
water and the opportunity for peace and solitude for millions of
people. Appropriate management of southern California's four
national forests is essential for maintaining the rich
biological diversity of the region.

Alternative 6 will provide a broad range of recreational
opportunities while maintaining functioning ecosystems and
protecting biological resources. Alternative 6 will comply with
the Endangered Species Act by allowing recreational use of the
forests while protecting important habitat in Critical
Biological Zones, Wilderness and Wild and Scenic Rivers,
Research Natural Areas, and backcountry non-motorized zones. I
strongly urge the Forest Service to adopt Alternative 6, with
the following modifications:

1) The Forest Service attempted to discredit Alternative 6 in
the Draft EIS by assuming that roads necessary for fire and
fuels management would be closed and therefore species would be
at risk from fire. However, the "Conservation Alternative for
the Management of the Four Southern California National Forest,"
submitted to the Forest Service during scoping, allows for
consideration of fire and fuels management during analyses to
determine which roads are appropriate for closure. Alternative 6
should follow the recommendations in the Conservation
Alternative, and the Forest Service should re-analyze the
effects of Alternative 6 with respect to fire and fuels
management.

2) Wilderness and Wild and Scenic Rivers provide important
habitat protection for imperiled species and ecosystems and help
protect the wild character of our forests. The Forest Service
readily admits that wilderness does not pose a problem with
respect to fire suppression. Yet, the Forest Service failed to
recommend 80% of the eligible wilderness and wild and scenic
rivers in its preferred alternatives. In its final forest plans,
the Forest Service should recommend all of the wild and scenic
rivers listed in Alternative 6 for designation. In addition to
those recommended in the preferred alternatives, the Forest
Service should recommend the following wilderness areas in the
final forest plan: Ladd and Coldwater Canyons, Barker Valley,
Eagle Peak, and Hauser additions in the Cleveland National
Forest; Condor Peak, Castaic, and Pleasant View on the Angeles
National Forest; Cahuilla Mountain, South Fork San Jacinto, and
the SBNF section of the Sheep Mountain addition on the San
Bernardino National Forest

3) The Forest Service should adopt all Critical Biological
Zones, Research Natural Areas, and Special Interest Areas that
are identified in Alternatives 6 and 3. In addition, all
federally designated critical habitat for listed species should
be included in a Critical Biological Zone.

4) The Forest Service should prohibit new transmission lines,
freeways, oil and gas drilling, water diversions, and ski
developments on the national forests. Any additional urban
infrastructure should use existing footprints.

The best way to protect the forests from harmful impacts is to
prevent damaging activities in important habitats. Alternative 6
will best protect the precious natural heritage of these
critically important public lands.



I left the rest of it there so perhaps some can help me with the deciphering process. I put the rest of the letter in italics to help with differentiation.

But, not trusting the CBD to feed me the whole truth, I went to the Forest Service's Site and looked up the stuff being discussed.

Here is the link to that-

http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/scfpr/draft/...e/station4.htm

What do the first three paragraphs say?

[Jerry Bransford]

The link at http://actionnetwork.org/campaign/4_...3nin36zpjwxtw3 is an anti-offroad "Dear Decision Maker" they want people to add their name to so the anti-offroaders can send it to various 'decision makers'. I see that as a golden opportunity for us.

I say we come up with a good letter of our own and then cut and paste it into their own letter to replace their anti-offroad text and have them send it for us to the "decision makers"!

I really doubt they would read the letter too closely if it started off looking like one of theirs heheh.

Does anyone who is up on the right verbage want to come up with a well-worded letter for us all to use to subvert their letter and use their very own site against them? Robert? Blaine?

[Stu Olson]

Anti-recreationists really suck the root of all things that are nasty and disgusting.

[Paradiddle]

I love how they lump us in with Oil and Gas drilling.

Like the "damage" our hobby causes is remotely close to what big business does to the environment.

Why don't they fight them - oh - I know why - they can't beat big business and big big money.

Jeff

[Darrell C]

It's also the shotgun approach, Jeff. Lends credence to the campaign by targeting all forms of activity that don't meet their definition of eco-safe.

Edit: while Jerry's idea is interesting, I'm not convinced subverting their campaign is the proper way to rebuke this.

Still thinking on it...

[Robert J. Yates]

I like Blaine like to know what my enemies are doing which is why I keep an eye on them as well and posted an excerpt from their actual response to the draft management plan on this board a couple of weeks ago. 2 things bother me about that.

First, I got almost no response on that thread - folks apparently did not have much to say about it. Sad because it was quite clear that their response represented a huge assault on our rights and liberties.

Secondly, I have come to the conclusion through reading up on these groups that they are not as we have previously thought, anti recreationsists, they are in fact communists masquerading as "Environmental Crisis Mass Marketers". Their goal is to keep everyone out through a constant waving of the crisis flag. They want nothing more than to restrict your rights, your liberties and in the most insideous turn of events, they use our own government to help promote their cause through receipt of grant funds, often times from the very same agencies they are in the middle of suing.

Off roaders are like the sh!t at Spider Lake - the sh!t can't/won't fight back and makes a very convienient excuse for closing the land down.

The only way we will win is by fighting them at their own game. To counter their arguments and smear them with their own trash - such as their huge generation of paper waste through their incessent junk mailing efforts. We need lobbiest groups such as the Blue Ribbion Coalition to speak for us at the top levels of government, we need to extricate ourselves from the yaahoo element and we also need to use our lands.

Back to the first issue I had, apparently a number of us are uncomfortable at taking a more extreme approach to dealing with the yaahoo element. Fine. I think those of you with your hands off attitude are wrong on this one but that does not leave us without options.

JEEPBBS CALL TO ARMS - CRUISE FOR THE CAUSE

So here it is - I challenge folks on this board to match my donation of $100 to the Blue Ribbion Coalition and given that its not quite wheelin season in the desert yet, I am proposing a meet and great in which to collect donations. I'd like to see a turnout of Jeeps and cash - maybe at a local In N Out on a Saturday evening. I'd like to see us collect at least $250 more in the name of JeepBBS to send to Blue Ribbion to help fight these communists off. If you don't live in So Cal or care to meet up for a burger and talk Jeeps, fine we have a paypal link here on the site.

Put your money where your mouth is.

[Joe Dillard]

Thanks for sharing the info guys!

I'm nowhere near schooled enough to cause discontent in the enemies camp - but I'll support those who have the knowledge & tools to do so and I'll learn along the way.

Hmm, add one dead President Franklin serial # CB48220447F (B2) to the "JEEPBBS CALL TO ARMS - CRUISE FOR THE CAUSE".

[Robert J. Yates]

Awesome Joe - thanx!

Probably ought to set a time and place - I'm figuring somewhere off the 5 would be convienient.

I'm thinking Saturday August 21st will work for a date.

Anyone know of an In N Out or coffee place say in the Mission Viejo area?

Sergey, better fire up the pay pal and bank account. I want folks here to make a statement and given the dicussion here as of late, a large cash donation to Blue Ribbon in the name of JeepBBS will work just fine.

[Paradiddle]

Originally posted by Robert J. Yates
Awesome Joe - thanx!

Probably ought to set a time and place - I'm figuring somewhere off the 5 would be convienient.

I'm thinking Saturday August 21st will work for a date.

Anyone know of an In N Out or coffee place say in the Mission Viejo area?

Sergey, better fire up the pay pal and bank account. I want folks here to make a statement and given the dicussion here as of late, a large cash donation to Blue Ribbon in the name of JeepBBS will work just fine.

I'm out of town that day but want to donate via Paypal - what is the address again Sergey?

Thanks for taking your time Robert to organize this - it means a lot to some of us who can't/don't make the time to do this kinda stuff!

Robert - here are the In and Outs near Mission Viejo

Orange County Laguna Hills 24001 Avenida De La Carlota 92653
Orange County Foothill Ranch 26482 Towne Centre Dr. 92610
Orange County Laguna Niguel 27380 La Paz Rd. 92656
Orange County Laguna Niguel 28782 Camino Capistrano 92677
Orange County Irvine 4115 Campus Dr. 92612

Jeff

[Joe Dillard]

Robert, I spoke with Sergey the other day and he was planning on a little R&R in Vegas with his family. So I think he's out of the area right now.

Would you like for me to try to give him a buzz?

[DanB98TJ]

Originally posted by Robert J. Yates

So here it is - I challenge folks on this board to match my donation of $100 to the Blue Ribbion Coalition and given that its not quite wheelin season in the desert yet, I am proposing a meet and great in which to collect donations.

Can't swing $100 right now, and So Cal is a bit of a drive for me, but I'll kick in a little to help out. I'm assuming I just use the "Click to Donate" link at the bottom of the page?

One of these days I'd like to get out there and run some of the trails...that's if the greenie b@stards don't shut them down first. We've already lost a couple good trails around here....

[Art Welch]

Originally posted by Robert J. Yates
I challenge folks on this board to match my donation of $100 to the Blue Ribbion Coalition

Accepted

[Jason L Williams]

Robert,
I will be more than happy to donate. I will be in Athens, Greece on that particular day. Most all funds are spoken for the impending vacation. I will do what I can when I get back.

[Hackle]

I would like the pay pal account also as I am not in CA.
Jim F.

[WhiteKnuckle]

Challenge accepted. I've been lurking over here for quite some time now. Never found the need to register in the past but Robert's call to arms inspired me to do it.

Different location if one hasn't been decided on yet. In-n-Out at the 91 & Imperial Hwy on LaPalma in Anaheim Hills. They have a pretty large parking lot there. I know some of the other locations don't have much parking if memory serves me correctly. The one downside to this location I see is the traffic in that area is always heavy. Might be an upside to that as well.

Robert, I still have those damn Tera Lowers you sold me on my Jeep. Thanks to Blaine those and the springs are the only suspension components that aren't Currie. Springs & Lowers are next on the list to replace. Actually the tera's have been ok for me. The 03' hasn't been beat on that bad yet. But as the scratches and dents have become a more frequent occurance I know it won't be long before I'll need something that isn't going to cause more damage.

Back to the subject. I'm in and may have a few neighbors there also.

Matt

[Robert J. Yates]

First of all, I would like to thank everyone who has responded with an offer to donate. Its good to see that some of the feeling of defeat that 4 wheelers seem to walk around with, does not also reside in the wallet

I also appreciate folks donating what they can even if its not the same value as what I pledged. I was simply trying to set the bar and make a statement. Whatever folks can pledge is fine and we can send it off in one large lump sum to Blue Ribbon under the banner of JeepBBS with a plea for them to pay attention to the CBD.

As for the meet and greet, it is by no means set in stone to use it to collect donations and I think we can be flexible. Seems alot of folks are on vacation anyways so if folks want to defer or someone else take the lead to set it up, that is fine with me.

Thanx again and keep it coming. You folks have made my day

[Bruce David]

Where is the pay-pal Address ?
I'll be out of town on the 21st.

[mrblaine]

I would prefer to have it on a date when we can have more attendance. It already sounds as if some I would really like to spend some time over a coffee with are not going to be present.

Let's fix that somehow.

I'd also suggest that we forego the IN-N-Out and pick some place where we can rest in comfortable air conditioning. It is still a tad warm in places this time of year.

No worries on my donation either. I'm in for a hundred.

[Tumbleweed]

I regret that I cannot donate just now. Going in for surgery on my arm next Monday and will be off work for at least a month.
But-I will be rejoining BRC as an individual asap. My group membership expired recently.

[Darrell C]

Count me in.

It's a bit far for a quick meet-and-greet for me.

I've made some folks aware of my fall travel plans and if it could coincide with that, I'd be more than happy to try and adjust my vacation plans and fit it in.

Let me know...

[Paradiddle]

If you pick a different weekend I'm in.

There is a Fudruckers on El Toro just north of the 5 that has a big parking lot and several big tables that we can bunch together.

They have killer brownies for desert!

They are used to car hops there so a bunch of Jeeps won't bother them.

Jeff

[Jeff Weston]

Originally posted by mrblaine
I would prefer to have it on a date when we can have more attendance. It already sounds as if some I would really like to spend some time over a coffee with are not going to be present.

Oh, okay, in that case I'll try to make it.

I'll try to 'sneak' out for it.

BTW, I noticed on the BRC website, that the donation is tax decuctible. Perhaps that may change the method in which we present the donation? Or, assuming we each make the check out to BRC and present them on behalf of members of JeepBBS then we could each still pull the deduction??? Sorry if that comes across wrong. <waving white flag>. 'Just throwing some $h*t in the fan and seeing where it sticks.

[Dan-H]

Originally posted by Jeff Weston
Oh, okay, in that case I'll try to make it.

I'll try to 'sneak' out for it.

BTW, I noticed on the BRC website, that the donation is tax decuctible. Perhaps that may change the method in which we present the donation? Or, assuming we each make the check out to BRC and present them on behalf of members of JeepBBS then we could each still pull the deduction??? Sorry if that comes across wrong. <waving white flag>. 'Just throwing some $h*t in the fan and seeing where it sticks.

The last time a local club did a fund raiser for BRC, I brought up the same issue. So, I wrote a paper check made out to BRC, not the club, and it went into the pot. The dollar amount was included in the total donated, but in the end I had sufficient paper trail for the IRS. A cancelled check works just fine.

But, paypal to another individual, who in turn donates it won't likely pass the acid test.

[Dan-H]

Oh, btw, you can direct the money within BRC to a specific cause, for example the california legal fund.

[blkTJ]

recommended donation made via pay pal.

when ever and where ever the "event" is determined to be... I'll try and make it.

[Robert J. Yates]

I personally am not concerned about the tax issue but if others are, I don't see why they can't simply leave it on the honor system and donate individually.

I would still like to donate under the board banner and I am thinking of a cover letter to go along with that.

I waw not so much concerned with jeepbbs getting credit as I was with us, jeepbbs, as a community doing something and with blue ribbon, I could not think of a better cause for that point to be made. whether individually or collectively, i'm pleased over the statement we made here today.

blaine, I agree that there are folks I too would like to see at a meet and greet which is why I suggested flexibility. it can wait.

[William]

Originally posted by Robert J. Yates
I agree that there are folks I too would like to see at a meet and greet which is why I suggested flexibility. it can wait.

I would love to meet up and put some money down via cash in person.

This became more of an issue for me last week. As some may know, I'm an avid bike rider too. Sometimes when it's too @#$# hot and I'm lazy, I'll drive to the trolley station and take the trolley to work. Saves gas, wear and tear on my battered jeep.. etc.

I came back from work and some @#$@#$ had put a STICKER on my window:


"I"m destroying the enviroment, ask me how."

And a nasty note about driving a SUV.

It occured to me this wasn't someone who was concerned about the enviroment, but some @#$#@ who just wanted to be a vandal. I mean for chrisake, I was TAKING PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION...

So, I'd like to help BRC, and catch up with people I haven't said hello to in a while.

[Robert J. Yates]

hi william,welcome back and thanx for your service to our country.

I find it rather humorous that you got tagged while using the trolly and I also think it points out the true hypocracy behind these groups.

you got tagged simply for what you were driving and they would love nothing better to restrict or criminalize your choice.

that is no different than the assault on our right to bear arms or our rights as citizens to use our public lands.

its our freedom that is under attack - these folks care not about people or the environment.

[Darrell C]

Would you perfer this donation to occur via the Paypal link at the bottom, or via personal check at the meet-and-greet (assuming I can make that)?

I'm open either way...

[William]

Originally posted by Robert J. Yates
I find it rather humorous that you got tagged while using the trolly and I also think it points out the true hypocracy behind these groups.

As I thought about it, the 'criminal' who stuck it there probably drove up to do it.

The police were nonplus about it. As if they couldn't understand exactly why I was mad (something stuck to my window with out my permission) or that I didn't expect it to happen.