Here's why we will lose

[Paradiddle]

Originally posted by William
The police were nonplus about it. As if they couldn't understand exactly why I was mad (something stuck to my window with out my permission) or that I didn't expect it to happen.

That is the kinda stuff that really chaps my a$$.

Imagine that same cop out on a trial responding to some greenie claiming there was illegal offroading going on - think he be nonplus?

Jeff

[speaceman]

You need to get yourself a "My other car is a bike" license plate frame William.

That way those mean ecoterrorists will leave your poor jeep alone.

[Robert J. Yates]

Originally posted by speaceman
That way those mean ecoterrorists will leave your poor jeep alone.

We really need to stop defining them on their terms - they are not eco anything - they are communists pure and simple.

Behind every idiot writing a check to the CBD, you will find one that has written or monetarily supported anti gun legislation. I know people do not want to waste their time reading the drivel these groups are putting out there but none the less, that drivel points out their true mission - restriction of your constitutionally given rights to individual ownership and/or use of guns and/or property. That makes them communists.

Nobody I wheel with would call themselves anti environment but by allowing them to continually co-op the term environmentalist from us, that makes it so in the eyes of the public.

[Matt Pascoe]

Robert,

Proudly matched your pledge via Paypal.

I'm still trying to get up to speed on the politics involved and am very greatful that you and others have invested so much time and effort fighting these eco nazis.

I've read several people on this board say that education is not the answer and I don't agree. From the time I could walk my dad had me hiking and backpacking all over the sierras and I learned by his example that you not only carry out all of your refuse, but leave the area cleaner than you found it.

I learned this by his example. The idea of leaving a pile of s##t on a rock just seems truly absurd.

Point is, I think education is key. It just has to be at the correct leval.

One other thing. 20 years ago when I was backpacking with my dad I clearly remember having conversations about trail closures blocking access to hikers. It's not that these eco nazis want to stop Jeeps. They want to stop EVERYONE from entering remote public land.

Its not just a Jeep problem... Its a people problem.

Heres what "people" do to my favorite beach every 4th of July:


Should we ban all people from the beach?

I dunno

MP

[NAILER341]

i am looking, but not seeing the paypal link...
where is it?
set the date, and i'll do my best to attend this shindig

[igofshn]

I'd love to attend something but Orange County is too far away. How about something in the LA area, that's only about 3 hours away.

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by igofshn
I'd love to attend something but Orange County is too far away. How about something in the LA area, that's only about 3 hours away.

Why do you think we picked OC Al?

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by Matt Pascoe


Point is, I think education is key. It just has to be at the correct leval.



MP

If you want to fight this battle, you need an open mind and the ability to grasp unfamiliar concepts.

Bear with me on this. Did you ever try to teach even the simplest task or concept to someone that did not want to learn?

[Matt Pascoe]

Bear with me on this. Did you ever try to teach even the simplest task or concept to someone that did not want to learn?

People are sheep. They will do what is easy and what they see is acceptable by there surrounding peers.

Picture this:
A teen raver is up at the box trippin on ecstasy and drops a log on a rock. Suddenly all of his friends look at him and say, "dude, what the hell are you doing. Were never inviting you up here with us again."

Guaranteed his behavior would change.

Is this education? Not in the formal sense.

Leading by example works.

Unfortunately, I think you are far more informed in this problem than I am. And as such realize that there are more of "them" than "us". So the problem is that the example being set is "who gives a f**k".

Just having a conversation here... I clearly don't have any answers. But I am concerned.

MP

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by Matt Pascoe
People are sheep. They will do what is easy and what they see is acceptable by there surrounding peers.

Picture this:
A teen raver is up at the box trippin on ecstasy and drops a log on a rock. Suddenly all of his friends look at him and say, "dude, what the hell are you doing. Were never inviting you up here with us again."

Guaranteed his behavior would change.

Is this education? Not in the formal sense.

Leading by example works.

Unfortunately, I think you are far more informed in this problem than I am. And as such realize that there are more of "them" than "us". So the problem is that the example being set is "who gives a f**k".

Just having a conversation here... I clearly don't have any answers. But I am concerned.

MP

As am I Matt, having a conversation that is. BTW- your analogy sucks.

Yes, there are sheeple in this world and they outnumber the non sheeple greatly. They are easy prey to the "crisis" headline that I started this thread with.

Now, back to the original question. Have you ever tried to teach something to someone that did not want to learn it?

I suspect that the reason you evaded answering this directly is that you and I both know the answer. The answer is yes and no they did not become educated no matter what method I chose to teach them.

The inverse is also very true. If your intent when offroading or travelling in the outback is to be respectful and caring of your environment, you will find a way to do that.

If your intent is to leave societal constraints at the city limits and run amuck with no cares about the environment or the damage your passage through it is causing, then no amount of education ignored will change that.

If you for one second think that education works, ponder our laws that are known by everyone.

Is it illegal to do any of the following?
-jaywalk
-exceed the speed limit
-throw litter out your car window on the freeway
-let your dog crap on the beach
-drive a vehicle without taillights at night
-drive a vehicle without headlights at night
-drive in CA without your seatbelt on
-drive in CA under the influence of any substance that impairs your ability to operate a motor vehicle safely
-change lanes improperly
-enter an intersection after the light has turned red
-

I could go on and on, but the point is that you can answer yes to every example posted as can 99.9 percent of the folks out there in the world over the age of 16.

Yet, every day you and I both commit various infractions and violations even though we have been educated as to the unlawfullness of our actions.

It is not until our actions create more pain than we can bear do we start to learn. The learning is a defense mechanism to make the pain stay away.

Now while the above is not 100 percent applicable to every one, it can be applied to everyone that is in violation of the ideals that we deem acceptable to preserve the open state of our recreational real estate.

That is why I state that education is not the answer. Leaning is and the only time that occurs is through excessive pain or desire.

Learning is the answer.

[Matt Pascoe]

BTW- your analogy sucks.

Oh yea!! Well your analogy blows

I think symantics are all that seperate our views.

I would say you must be educated to learn.

Another analogy for ya... You touch your exhaust manifold and get burnt. You have now been educated on the properties of a hot engine.

MP

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by Matt Pascoe
Oh yea!! Well your analogy blows

I think symantics are all that seperate our views.

I would say you must be educated to learn.

Another analogy for ya... You touch your exhaust manifold and get burnt. You have now been educated on the properties of a hot engine.

MP

Semantics do indeed seperate our views, but the semantics in this case are the difference between success and failure in the outcome and where you chose to spend your precious resources in the battle over our rights.

In a nutshell, you must have the desire to recreate in an acceptable and caring manner. Without that desire, no amount of education makes one whit of difference.

Here, I'll give you a very personal example of the distortion of truth to put in your semantical pipe to smoke.

Someone on JU asks about the benefits of the Currie HD set-up.

The answer given by one of the respondents was 100 percent truthful. He stated that his set-up had suffered from a broken tapered pin and that you had better buy some spares as they were proprietary to the Currie set-up.

Again, not one iota of his statement is false. Would you buy the 400 dollar system based on his statement? Most likely not.

Now, as Paul Harvey would say, is the rest of the story.

The pin that failed, it was on his first generation set-up that was not only warrantied by Currie when the second generation that solved all of the issues that first gen had, but it was done outside the guidelines laid down by Currie.

There were several hundred of these in use before it was discovered that the mfg had screwed the pooch as far as consistency went. In a stroke of brilliance, Currie set the policy that all would be warrantied, no questions asked, no receipts requested or needed, the only thing you had to do was ship them your set-up. Perfect bookkeeping. Get one, send one. How easy can it get?

I supplied the original set-up to the responder. He was the benefactor of a generous discount in the process. As a favor, he asked me to circumvent protocol and get him a set-up while still retaining the original. Being friends with the Curries, I put my friendship on the line, promised a speedy resolution to them, and got the set-up to him and waited for the original so I could settle up.

It took him four months to get the first gen back to me. He waited until a trip so he would not have to pay shipping and he could give it to a friend to bring back to me. That delay caused some serious friction between me and the Curries.

To the best of my knowledge, the replacement set has been trouble free.

So, you have a guy that purchases a set-up at a discount, got it warrantied under special circumstances, the replacement has been flawless, and he expresses his debt of gratitude with disparaging comments about his half price system.

But, he did not lie.

Now, as far as the proprietary comment goes, I find that to be no more egregious than having to buy certain parts at the dealer.

I am 100 percent certain that if an aftermarket vendor started making and selling the Currie specific tre's, they would have no issue with it at all.

[Deaver]

Just PayPal'd 100 bucks

I may never get to ride your trails but firmly believe in the efforts of you folks. There are no "public" trails left here in the Mid-Atlantic region of the East Coast.

Don't loose what you enjoy

[NAILER341]

Originally posted by Deaver
Just PayPal'd 100 bucks

I may never get to ride your trails but firmly believe in the efforts of you folks. There are no "public" trails left here in the Mid-Atlantic region of the East Coast.

Don't loose what you enjoy

where in the hell is the paypal link?

[Matt Pascoe]

Originally posted by NAILER341
where in the hell is the paypal link?

Its a secret... Shhhhhhh.


Look at the bottom of the page where it says "click to donate"

[Chris L]

Great thread. Sorry I did not get to read it sooner. My weekends are booked until after the 5th of sept. I will donate at the meet-n-greet. If it helps, I would be willing to have it at my house for those that are coming from farther north, but that may be a little far for those in south OC. What about a place like Dave and Busters in irvine? Another option is there is a new hot/rod/car hop drive in place thats about ready to open here in Torrance. It's on a huge lot with plenty of parking {mostly for vehicle display} and has a seperate restaurant on the same lot as the car hop drive through. Just thought I would throw it out there.

[Robert J. Yates]

I like the idea of the place in Torrance Chris but at this point, the meet and greet is on hold due to folks being booked. Probably sometime in September will be more like it.

As for donations, folks should not be hesitating - donations made directly to Blue Ribbon are perfectly acceptable. Its not about who gets the credit - its about supporting the cause. Thanx again.

[Chris L]

Robert, I will go by and snap a picture of this place this weekend and post it here to give you a better idea. I think it would work great.

[Jeff Weston]

Chris,

Where in Torrance is it and what is is called?

[Chris L]

Jeff, It's on the corner of sepulveda and Normandie where the grinder used to be. They tore down the restuarant and corner lot and made one big place with a restuarant at one end and a car hop drive through at the other. Cant remember the name. It looks like it's been finished for a while, but I dont think its open yet. I will drive by and get more details.

[Stu Olson]

Robert,

Paypal transfer completed.....sorry, it was only half of your challenge. Donna's airline ticket to go take care of our daughter created an unexpected vacuum on my discretionary funds.

[Joe Dillard]

Robert,
You have snail mail coming. Sorry for the delay but I couldn't find your address. I had it tucked away - guess I should have just called.

If the meet & greet shifts to early September, I should be able to attend.

Also, for those commuting from the San Diego area - if you'd like to carpool with me, that's fine. I can drive my truck which holds six including the driver.

[Paradiddle]

New membership and $100 donation PIF.

[NAILER341]

donation made via the link on the bottom of the page.

[Wind_Danzer]

I just donated, not as much as I'd like but now that I'm in an area where a lot if not all the wheeling is free, I need to do something to keep it that way for myself and others. I plan every couple of months to donate as much as I can.

If the meet and greet is local to any of the airports and someone is willing to come pick me up, I'll try and come in for it.. provided I'm not flying the friendly skies already.

[TObject]

Hi folks!

I was away for a week, and just started reading what I was missing.

I too accept the challenge, and pledge $100 to the JEEPBBS CALL TO ARMS - CRUISE FOR THE CAUSE

Here is a link to our "regular" donations page:
http://www.jeepbbs.net/donations/

Since folks have already started donating, we will not be setting up a separate link, instead all donations made between Aug 9, 2004 and the cut off date to be determined will be treated as the JEEPBBS CALL TO ARMS - CRUISE FOR THE CAUSE donations.

If possible, please bring your donations to the meeting, in person, as out of every $100 sent via PayPal, $3.20 goes to fees. I will cover the fees out of my pocket this time.

I am proud to be a member of such dedicated and compassionate group as we are.

Thank you!

[blkTJ]

I'll bring another $3.20 to the greet.

[Darrell C]

Originally posted by Darrell C
Would you perfer this donation to occur via the Paypal link at the bottom, or via personal check at the meet-and-greet (assuming I can make that)?

I'm open either way...

Made my contribution via Paypal link at bottom.

[TObject]

So far we've collected $725 via PayPal in JEEPBBS CALL TO ARMS - CRUISE FOR THE CAUSE donations. Very impressive! We are getting there, people!

If anyone has changed their mind, and would like to donate in person instead (for tax purposes, or whatever), we will be willing to make an exception to the rules, and issue refunds. Let me know, if you'd like to do that.

Disclaimer: Refunds will be considered on individual basis. We reserve the right to refuse refunds. Fees will apply to refunds requested 60 days after the day of donation. Fees may apply to other refunds.

Thank you!

[Paradiddle]

I donated my $100 right to the Blue Ribbon Coalition.

I'll have to donate some more to the JBBS fund!