Design my Jeep......

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by Stu Olson
I've seen that time and time again......and when I question the driver, I find that he/she doesn't have the slightest clue about using both feet to drive an auto.

Don't blame the hardware because the driver is clueless.

It's pretty easy to spot the clueless drivers, they typically have one foot propped into the door jamb wishing they'd been cool enough to buy a harley peg somewhere.

[Robert J. Yates]

Originally posted by DsrtJeeper
One thing i've noticed repeatedly is how autos react when against a steep, vertical ledge. They sit there trying to rev and not moving until the throttle is about pinned and then the Jeep lunges forward. It's almost as if the tranny has a stall converter.

Whoever you are watching doesn't know how to drive then because that is actually the last thing that should happen with a properly driven auto rig. Most manual folks don't realize that more than a few of us drive our autos with 2 feet.

An auto gives you huge control over your traction in the rocks which to me is the primary advantage of having one. The fact thay will shift for you when you want them to is a nice bonus for when you are dune/desert running.

[DsrtJeeper]

Ya know; i've never actually watched someone's feet while driving their autos. Maybe I don't have a fetish afterall.

Seriously; I never knew you guys drove with two feet. Believe me; I wish I had an auto at times. Then again; i'm with blkTJ. I like my manual and would like it even moreso with gear reduction. I really don't have the need for high speed desert runs or dunes for that matter.

[DsrtJeeper]

Originally posted by Darrell C
I opted for a 3 speed auto out of a '00 TJ. Primary reason: no computer issues to deal with. I pulled the stick, stuck the auto in and lengthen the rear driveshaft. Also raised the belly skid some while I was at it.

So; you can run your Rubi puter with the 3-speed? The tranny bolts right up? Is the 3-speed a 999 or 904? The one thing i'm concerned about is highway driving without overdrive. I would think a 3-speed would be running pretty high RPM's on the highway. Have any pics of your conversion; Darrell? Thanks!

[Robert J. Yates]

Mine tachs out pretty good on 35's with 4:56's at 75 plus but its fine over the road for me because I don't drive that fast (unless I have to pass) so you won't have a problem on 37's with 4:88's in the diffs.

[Paradiddle]

Originally posted by DsrtJeeper
So; you can run your Rubi puter with the 3-speed? The tranny bolts right up? Is the 3-speed a 999 or 904? The one thing i'm concerned about is highway driving without overdrive. I would think a 3-speed would be running pretty high RPM's on the highway. Have any pics of your conversion; Darrell? Thanks!

If you are geared correctly in the pigs your RPM is the same as stock.

[Stu Olson]

Originally posted by DsrtJeeper
Seriously; I never knew you guys drove with two feet.

Damn Eric....be careful what you admit to! You are talking yourself right into the clueless category....next someone is going to ask where to send the name tag.


But seriously, you do drive with both feet. It takes a little getting use to......you hold the engine RPM at one point and then simply modulate your forward progress with the brake pedal. If you find that you are not making foward progress with the brake fully released, you apply brake pressure again and then add a few hundred more RPM to the engine with the gas pedal......now slowly release brake pedal pressure to control your forward motion....adding more or less brake pedal as necessary for you to crawl the desire line. Using this technique you can reduce your forward travel to inches per minute, if need be.....without ever actually stopping the vehicle. Once nice benefit is that when you decide to stop, you don't get that huge driveline unloading like you do when pushing in the clutch.

Until you try it, you really can't appreciate it.....just like so many other worthwhile Jeep mods.

[1BLKJP]

Originally posted by Stu Olson
But seriously, you do drive with both feet. It takes a little getting use to......you hold the engine RPM at one point and then simply modulate your forward progress with the brake pedal. If you find that you are not making foward progress with the brake fully released, you apply brake pressure again and then add a few hundred more RPM to the engine with the gas pedal......now slowly release brake pedal pressure to control your forward motion....adding more or less brake pedal as necessary for you to crawl the desire line. Using this technique you can reduce your forward travel to inches per minute, if need be.....without ever actually stopping the vehicle. Once nice benefit is that when you decide to stop, you don't get that huge driveline unloading like you do when pushing in the clutch.

Until you try it, you really can't appreciate it.....just like so many other worthwhile Jeep mods.

Stu, I learned how to drive my auto with two feet when I had the stock trash loc. I had to keep the brake on to get it to engage. After I locked it I just automatically kept doing the same thing. I've even seen guys doing that with hand throttle's on their autos. It makes for a smooth ride on a tough line.

Eric, Try the 4:1 first. You can hook'em up for like 750 online. I think you will like the difference in crawl ratio even with your manual. If not then look at doing the AW-4 swap. Stu can help you with that one.

And if i'm not mistaken didn't you blow a front passenger U-Joint and Shaft the first run out with your 37's on the rock garden at Payette Draw about a year or so ago?

[DsrtJeeper]

Originally posted by 1BLKJP
Stu, I learned how to drive my auto with two feet when I had the stock trash loc. I had to keep the brake on to get it to engage. After I locked it I just automatically kept doing the same thing. I've even seen guys doing that with hand throttle's on their autos. It makes for a smooth ride on a tough line.

Eric, Try the 4:1 first. You can hook'em up for like 750 online. I think you will like the difference in crawl ratio even with your manual. If not then look at doing the AW-4 swap. Stu can help you with that one.

And if i'm not mistaken didn't you blow a front passenger U-Joint and Shaft the first run out with your 37's on the rock garden at Payette Draw about a year or so ago?

Jack;
Yes; that was a stock shaft and u-joint. I've been on chromolly's ever since and just broke last trip there. Not bad odds for my setup.

[DsrtJeeper]

Originally posted by Stu Olson
Damn Eric....be careful what you admit to! You are talking yourself right into the clueless category....next someone is going to ask where to send the name tag.


But seriously, you do drive with both feet. It takes a little getting use to......you hold the engine RPM at one point and then simply modulate your forward progress with the brake pedal. If you find that you are not making foward progress with the brake fully released, you apply brake pressure again and then add a few hundred more RPM to the engine with the gas pedal......now slowly release brake pedal pressure to control your forward motion....adding more or less brake pedal as necessary for you to crawl the desire line. Using this technique you can reduce your forward travel to inches per minute, if need be.....without ever actually stopping the vehicle. Once nice benefit is that when you decide to stop, you don't get that huge driveline unloading like you do when pushing in the clutch.

Until you try it, you really can't appreciate it.....just like so many other worthwhile Jeep mods.

Stu; I am clueless!!!! Do you know that i've only been wheeling for two years? I never 4x4'd in the past. I always rode dirt bikes or quads. I'll readily admit that I learn something every time out. This is why I ask these newbie questions. Technically; I am one. Thanks for the explanation on driving an auto with two feet. It sounds difficult at first, but i'm sure I could grow to like it.

I've decided to either run a 4:1 or a Rubi TC. Now I want to look into a cleaner underbelly. High pinions would be ideal, but I can't swing it at this time.

[DanB98TJ]

Originally posted by DsrtJeeper
I've decided to either run a 4:1 or a Rubi TC. Now I want to look into a cleaner underbelly. High pinions would be ideal, but I can't swing it at this time.

Eric - How soon are you looking at doing this? I'm wanting to do an auto swap, and if I do I'll be looking for a stock ratio 'case. If the timing works out we can swap.

[Stu Olson]

Originally posted by 1BLKJP
Eric, Try the 4:1 first. You can hook'em up for like 750 online. I think you will like the difference in crawl ratio even with your manual. If not then look at doing the AW-4 swap. Stu can help you with that one.

The next AW-4 transplant I pump my sweat equity into needs to be under my TJ. And it won't be done in August either!

[1BLKJP]

Originally posted by Stu Olson
The next AW-4 transplant I pump my sweat equity into needs to be under my TJ. And it won't be done in August either!

I bet it won't be. August is not the best time to start those kinds of projects.

[Darrell C]

Originally posted by DsrtJeeper
So; you can run your Rubi puter with the 3-speed?

Yep. As far as the PCM is concerned, it's still got the stick in it. The computer wasn't getting any transmission data when I had the stick, and it's still not getting any transmission data.

The tranny bolts right up?

Yep. Bell housing to block and transmission tail cone to t-case were a direct bolt up. I did need to use a seal extender in the tail cone for the automatic's output shaft because the input shaft of the 241 t-case was pretty short and I didn't get good seal engagement...hence an ATF leak started almost immediately.

I did have to fab up a transmisison mount and an exhaust hanger. No big deal with either one. The CPS required me to unplug the sensor from the harness and plug in one from a '00 as the '03 unit uses 2 bolts to mount it on the bellhousing and the '00 model used one bolt (be sure you space it off the flexplate correctly...too close and you could ruin the CPS, too far away the engine won't fire). I had to figure out the wiring for the backup light plug so they would come on when I stuck it in reverse...not a big deal with a test light. The auto was about 1.5" shorter than my manual so I had to lengthen my rear driveshaft. Lastly, I had to modify the t-case shifter linkage (lengthen) to allow proper t-case shifting, and I did have to fab up a transmission tunnel cover to work with the '00 style shifter setup.

While all these mods can sound daunting, don't let it keep you from the swap. I did this swap by myself, in my garage, in a couple days (IIRC). This included modifying the RE belly skid and raising it up to mimic the drop of the older TJ models (about 1.5" below the frame). While I'm not the metal worker or fab guru some others are, I'm pretty pleased with the outcome. And I absolutely love the auto in the rocks.

Is the 3-speed a 999 or 904?

Got me! A 32RH is the term I know. I'm sure someone else can crossreference those other numbers and chime in.

The one thing i'm concerned about is highway driving without overdrive. I would think a 3-speed would be running pretty high RPM's on the highway.

I running the opposite of what some recommend, including Blaine. I run a 4:1 t-case and 4.10s in the diffs with 35's. Hence, the R&P gears are pretty tall which keeps my RPM's decent on the highway. One plus of this is I do fine in sand...plenty of wheel spin.

Have any pics of your conversion; Darrell? Thanks!

Sorry, not a single one. I tackled the project solo, with the exception of my wife handing me tools and keeping me supplied with coffee.

[Stu Olson]

Originally posted by Darrell C
Yep. As far as the PCM is concerned, it's still got the stick in it. The computer wasn't getting any transmission data when I had the stick, and it's still not getting any transmission data.

I believe the 32RH has no data to feed the PCM, regardless of it being a manual tranny PCM or one for an auto. Hence, it wouldn't matter which PCM was being used.

However.....I was under the impression that the PCM was responsible for locking up the torque converter on the 32RH. Am I wrong about that detail? If I'm not, how did you get the manual PCM to control the lockup solenoid?

[DsrtJeeper]

Originally posted by DanB98TJ
Eric - How soon are you looking at doing this? I'm wanting to do an auto swap, and if I do I'll be looking for a stock ratio 'case. If the timing works out we can swap.

Dan;
That would be awesome!!!!!! You could even do the tranny swap in Fred's shop. I'd like to do it soon as wheeling without a 4:1 is taking it's toll on my tub. I can wait though. Just give me an idea when. Heck; i'd drive down and help you with the swap if you'd like. It would be interesting to see. I've got a whole 20,000 miles on my TC.

I heard from a Tera dealer today that there has been problems with Tera Lows in the past. One was the spitting of fluid from the vent and the other was incorrect cutting of the planetary gears causing loud operation. Anyone want to clarify this?

[DsrtJeeper]

Originally posted by Stu Olson
The next AW-4 transplant I pump my sweat equity into needs to be under my TJ. And it won't be done in August either!

Stu; I have AC in the garage. I owe you some labor too.

[DsrtJeeper]

Originally posted by Stu Olson
I believe the 32RH has no data to feed the PCM, regardless of it being a manual tranny PCM or one for an auto. Hence, it wouldn't matter which PCM was being used.

However.....I was under the impression that the PCM was responsible for locking up the torque converter on the 32RH. Am I wrong about that detail? If I'm not, how did you get the manual PCM to control the lockup solenoid?

Maybe i'm wrong, but I thought the 32RH lacked a lock up converter.

[DsrtJeeper]

Originally posted by Darrell C
[B]Yep. As far as the PCM is concerned, it's still got the stick in it. The computer wasn't getting any transmission data when I had the stick, and it's still not getting any transmission data.

[B]

Yep. Bell housing to block and transmission tail cone to t-case were a direct bolt up. I did need to use a seal extender in the tail cone for the automatic's output shaft because the input shaft of the 241 t-case was pretty short and I didn't get good seal engagement...hence an ATF leak started almost immediately.

I did have to fab up a transmisison mount and an exhaust hanger. No big deal with either one. The CPS required me to unplug the sensor from the harness and plug in one from a '00 as the '03 unit uses 2 bolts to mount it on the bellhousing and the '00 model used one bolt (be sure you space it off the flexplate correctly...too close and you could ruin the CPS, too far away the engine won't fire). I had to figure out the wiring for the backup light plug so they would come on when I stuck it in reverse...not a big deal with a test light. The auto was about 1.5" shorter than my manual so I had to lengthen my rear driveshaft. Lastly, I had to modify the t-case shifter linkage (lengthen) to allow proper t-case shifting, and I did have to fab up a transmission tunnel cover to work with the '00 style shifter setup.

While all these mods can sound daunting, don't let it keep you from the swap. I did this swap by myself, in my garage, in a couple days (IIRC). This included modifying the RE belly skid and raising it up to mimic the drop of the older TJ models (about 1.5" below the frame). While I'm not the metal worker or fab guru some others are, I'm pretty pleased with the outcome. And I absolutely love the auto in the rocks.

[B]

Got me! A 32RH is the term I know. I'm sure someone else can crossreference those other numbers and chime in.

[B]

I running the opposite of what some recommend, including Blaine. I run a 4:1 t-case and 4.10s in the diffs with 35's. Hence, the R&P gears are pretty tall which keeps my RPM's decent on the highway. One plus of this is I do fine in sand...plenty of wheel spin.



Sorry, not a single one. I tackled the project solo, with the exception of my wife handing me tools and keeping me supplied with coffee.

Thanks for the detailed response; Darrell.

[DanB98TJ]

Originally posted by DsrtJeeper
Dan;
That would be awesome!!!!!! You could even do the tranny swap in Fred's shop. I'd like to do it soon as wheeling without a 4:1 is taking it's toll on my tub. I can wait though. Just give me an idea when. Heck; i'd drive down and help you with the swap if you'd like. It would be interesting to see. I've got a whole 20,000 miles on my TC.

I heard from a Tera dealer today that there has been problems with Tera Lows in the past. One was the spitting of fluid from the vent and the other was incorrect cutting of the planetary gears causing loud operation. Anyone want to clarify this?

I'll have to start rounding up parts for the swap - the transmission and torque converter aren't an issue since Fred can come up with cores for those pretty easily. Finding the other stuff - pedals, shifter, cables, etc. is going to be the challenge. The *when* will depend on how much everything is gonna cost.

I haven't had any issues with this Tera Low spitting fluid. It is noisier than the stock 'case, especially when you hit 4th gear in low range, but I haven't had the opportunity to compare it to other Tera Low 'cases to see if it's better or worse than the newer versions. Noise in 2-high is minimal, but you can hear it at low speeds.

[DsrtJeeper]

Originally posted by DanB98TJ
I'll have to start rounding up parts for the swap - the transmission and torque converter aren't an issue since Fred can come up with cores for those pretty easily. Finding the other stuff - pedals, shifter, cables, etc. is going to be the challenge. The *when* will depend on how much everything is gonna cost.

I haven't had any issues with this Tera Low spitting fluid. It is noisier than the stock 'case, especially when you hit 4th gear in low range, but I haven't had the opportunity to compare it to other Tera Low 'cases to see if it's better or worse than the newer versions. Noise in 2-high is minimal, but you can hear it at low speeds.

Good enough; Dan! If you PM me with a complete list of parts you lack; I have a few hookups. Maybe I can help.

[Jeff Weston]

Originally posted by DsrtJeeper
Maybe i'm wrong, but I thought the 32RH lacked a lock up converter.

It does have a lock up, controlled by the pcm.

[DsrtJeeper]

Originally posted by Jeff Weston
It does have a lock up, controlled by the pcm.

Oh; ok. Well Darrell???

[DanB98TJ]

We just used a toggle switch to lock the converter when we swapped Fred's, and I'll probably do the same.

I'll have to see if Fred still has his list of parts so we can start the search.

[Stu Olson]

Dan, I knew that the switch option was available but for me, I would not be happy flipping a switch. My rig sees a lot of city driving as its my main transporation on my normal 3 day off work schedule.

Doesn't the torque converter generate extra heat when it is not locked up? I thought I remember Fred saying bad things about running it down the highway without it being locked. Fred?

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by Stu Olson


Doesn't the torque converter generate extra heat when it is not locked up?

What did they do before lock up TCs were invented?

[Robert J. Yates]

.........can be noisy and some of them do spit fluid out of the vent. Running a good synthetic ATF helps to cut down on the noise in my experience and I have never had the venting problem - at least not with the case I have in the Jeep now. The first case I had blew a$$ and was replaced. Stu knows the story on that one Eric. The second case has been very good to me and has never given me any trouble.

[DsrtJeeper]

Originally posted by Robert J. Yates
.........can be noisy and some of them do spit fluid out of the vent. Running a good synthetic ATF helps to cut down on the noise in my experience and I have never had the venting problem - at least not with the case I have in the Jeep now. The first case I had blew a$$ and was replaced. Stu knows the story on that one Eric. The second case has been very good to me and has never given me any trouble.

Thanks for the response; Robert. I'm going to give it a try.

[Stu Olson]

Originally posted by mrblaine
What did they do before lock up TCs were invented?

Beats me.....while I like autos.....I never said anything about knowing how they were designed/built.

Maybe my question should have been....."What problems, if any, will a lock up torque converter incur if it is always operated in the unlocked mode?"

[Robert J. Yates]

I have an old style TH400 3 speed auto in my Suburban. It has no lock-up. I've added a deep pan, auxilliary filter and a cooler to it. It will run up to 220 towing my Jeep up the Cajon Pass but thats the hottest it gets. Just by itself with no trailer or Jeep, it runs about 160-175.

Dunno the about the effects of no lock up on the Jeep 3 speed but given that its a decendent of the old torqueflites, I think they are pretty durable so the lock-up switch and having to hand actuate it would probably be of little impact.