More truth on the global warming crap...

[Jerry Bransford]

Scientific American published an article today proving the earth had a significantly warmer climate than we have today.

Ice core samples taken in 1981 and finally understood using today's DNA methods prove beyond a shadow of doubt that Greenland, all ice today, was a green continent complete with forests and butterflies and was "warmer than 50 degrees Fahrenheit (10 degrees Celsius) in summer and never colder than one degree F (?17 degrees C) in winter, much warmer than present conditions." This took place somewhere between 400,000 and 800,000 years ago so it's been coated in ice since that warming period for a hell of a long time.

Here's the article at http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?art...6&chanID=sa007

"July 05, 2007
Proof on Ice: Southern Greenland Was Once Green; Earth Warmer
Using ice cores from Antarctica and Greenland, researchers have extended the climate record back 800,000 years and have shown that the world's largest island may have been sealed in ice for at least that long
By David Biello

COLD CORE: Researchers isolated DNA from the muck at the bottom of a more than mile-long ice core from Greenland, pictured here.

In 1981 researchers removed a long tube of ice from the center of a glacier in southern Greenland at a site known as Dye 3. More than a mile (two kilometers) long, the deep end of the core sample had been crushed by the pressure of the ice above it and sullied by contact with rock and soil. By destroying the pattern of annual layers, this contamination seemingly made it impossible to assess the region's ancient climate. But DNA extracted from the previously ignored dirty bottom has revealed that Greenland was not only green, it boasted boreal forests like those found in Canada and Scandinavia today.
Biologist Eske Willerslev of the University of Copenhagen and an international team of colleagues discovered DNA from alder, spruce, pine and yew trees at the glacier's base as well as insects ranging from butterflies to spiders. This is the "first evidence for a forested southern Greenland," Willerslev says. And based on the tree species found, Greenland must have been warmer than 50 degrees Fahrenheit (10 degrees Celsius) in summer and never colder than one degree F (?17 degrees C) in winter, much warmer than present conditions.

Willerslev used four measures (traces of last exposure to sunlight in minerals, how long ago the amino acids were part of a living creature, the relative levels of beryllium and chlorine isotopes, and the "clocks" contained in the DNA) to date the forest to at least 400,000?and possibly as much as 800,000?years ago, the team reports in Science. That means this area of southern Greenland has been continuously coated in ice for at least that long.

The ice sheet on Greenland, therefore, is more stable than some scientists previously believed and "has not contributed to global sea level rise during the last interglacial," Willerslev says. "Importantly, it does not mean that we should not be worried about future global warming as the sea level rise of five to six meters during the last interglacial must have come from somewhere."

Glaciologist Richard Alley of Pennsylvania State University, who was not involved in the study, agrees: "Something else," possibly Antarctica, must have provided the water for global sea level rise "because this observation does not at all affect [that] estimate ? only the estimate of where the water came from."

Adds team member and glaciologist Martin Sharp of the University of Alberta in Edmonton: "One could argue that this shows that natural forcing could account for the current warm conditions, but the current orbital configuration does not support this, even when other natural forcings are taken into account. One could also argue that if natural warming can deglaciate much of southern Greenland, then natural warming plus anthropogenic warming could cause even more extensive deglaciation."

Looking at an ice core from a site on the glaciated continent of Antarctica known as Dome C, scientists have stretched the climate record back 800,000 years, tracking eight successive glacial periods, according to another online report in Science. The data shows that natural variations in Earth's orbit?obliquity, or how tilted the planet is in relation to the sun?have determined global temperatures in the past, they report. "This helps us put current warming into context," Sharp notes, "but it really has nothing to say about the mechanisms driving the current warming."

Applying the DNA techniques developed by Willerslev and his colleagues to the silty bottoms of such an Antarctic core may reveal the ice-free history of that continent as well. "In Antarctica, where the ice cover is thin and thus the bedrock is very cold [about 58 degrees F (50 degrees C)] I think you could go very far back in time," Willerslev says. "What to find? I have no idea." The past, it appears, is on ice and waiting. "

This just adds more proof that the earth naturally goes through very long hot and cool cycles. Take this in your pipe and smoke it Mr. Gore.

[Tumbleweed]

It would sure be nice if the truth could be reported accurately.
I was on the drill team, and support team of the Greenland ice core drilling project for two years-working out of the University of Alaska. First, the project ran for five years, Mar 88 to Aug 93.
The least they could do is get the years right. Agreed, they have been studying the ice cores since then. Dye 3 site is an abandoned US Air Force early warning radar site, part of the DEW system. It is 230 miles from where we drilled the ice cores. Duh!
We did have a 2 man site, (spent many cold arsed nights there in a tent for relief duty) groomed airstrip at Dye 3 for the 109th Air Guard from NY to practice landings and take offs. They are the ski equipped C-130's that hauled all the gear to the drill site. The ice cores taken at the bottom/bedrock level came up perfectly. Yes, everything thing in them was crushed/condensed from the pressure but not ruined. We also took bedrock samples of cores.
That ice is so compressed that when you take a cube and toss it in a glass of tea-it explodes.
Surprised that they did not mention we also provided all the equipment and some crew that pulled up the 5, WWII P-38 planes from under 50 years of ice. I personally disarmed the 50 cal guns on the planes as I was the only one trained in them.

Amazing how the media can screw up the facts of a story.

[Jerry Bransford]

Wow, that's something that you helped to pull up the aircraft buried there! There was a really touching story last week of the first major post-restoral flight of one of those P-38s that crashed. The last remaining survivor of that group of crash-landed WWII aircraft (due to bad weather) got to fly in a chase plane that flew with the P-38 as it finally completed its mission. They were found buried under 250' of Greenland ice.

[Tumbleweed]

Jerry, the extraction was really quite simple. We used a 4' diameter "Torpedo" which was only a giant plumb bob made of coiled copper tubing to penetrate the main holes. A Hotsy steam cleaner provided the heat. We then used two steam cleaners to melt the ice off the planes and create a large cavern. A team of plane mechanics and a few German engineers for assistance??? could not figure out how to get the planes fuselages and wings out of the holes. Farm boy here just made a large wood A frame, and used the snow cats winches. They were surprised it worked.
While the planes were waiting flights out of Sondestrom, I had the job of cleaning up all the fluids that leaked out when they thawed out. Messy. Surprised that the 50 cals were still loaded and chambered-well it was wartime.
The first plane that hit the ice did it with wheels down, and flipped. All the others landed wheels up and slid to a stop. Very little damage to them actually.
The story we were told was-
The bad weather was actually a lie told by the Nazi's over the radio. The planes were headed to Europe, got lured into turning around; and were too low on fuel to make it to any base.
The intent was to dog sled fuel to them and recover them, but the seasonal weather changed and prevented that. So they sat.
BTW, you have never been in a sauna like those caverns around the planes. Solid ice walls and steam cleaners make a steamy mess.
We located 5 planes and dug a manhole to the 4 we did not remove. Only one was pulled out that year. They disarmed all planes and left electronic senders in each. Ran out of season time to get any more out but were supposed to later. Here is a decent link to the story of Glacier Girl.
http://p38assn.org/glacier-girl.htm

[chef]

Originally posted by Jerry Bransford
"

This just adds more proof that the earth naturally goes through very long hot and cool cycles.

Industrial emissions, smog, what-nots...these don't accelerate climatic change? Or are you arguing that the other side is arguing that we are the sole cause of the present change? If there is one, arguably.

[Paradiddle]

All I can say is that it is hotter then hell in Chino right now and pretty rude in MV as well...

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by Paradiddle
All I can say is that it is hotter then hell in Chino right now and pretty rude in MV as well...

You said the same thing last summer.

[Britain]

Nice weather eh boys?

[speaceman]

Originally posted by Paradiddle
All I can say is that it is hotter then hell in Chino right now and pretty rude in MV as well...

Yeah, but it's a dry heat.....

[Jeff Weston]

Can you guys throw some of that global warming my way? This June gloom stuff at the coast is getting real old.

[chef]

Originally posted by Britain
Nice weather eh boys?

I've been to El Centro/Holtville in the summer...no thanks.

[Britain]

Be extra special today..they just posted a heat alert....

[SavageSun4x4]

on the 5th of July, it was 119 on my back patio, in the shade.

They don't call it Greenland for nothing!

My Dad was the Commander at Sondestrom and there were always some scientific group up there drilling ice cores and studying what not. One of the most interesting groups that was there was the group that were formulating the hypotheses that the magnetic poles of the earth shift on a regular basis. Dad sent me some draft papers they were working on and it was fascinating to say the least.

In fact only a couple of nights ago on the Discovery/History channel was that being discussed.

In the past few weeks I have caught some very interesting programs on the D/H channels.

A show a couple of nights ago was called 2012 and it discussed the various predictions made by several groups of folks about the year 2012. From China to the Aztecs and many more, say the earth will erupt in fire and earthquakes in that year. These are NOT current theories, but rather many go back several thousand years.

Then another show a few nights ago discussed the possible solar flare that is set to begin late 2011 and into 2012 that may be the worst one in almost 25k years.

Another show talked at length about the comet that is headed towards earth set to arrive about April of 2012. The scientists did not want to say it will come close, but did confirm that it will fly UNDER our commo satellites.

Last nite was the show, Super Comet, the day after. It explored how we might survive in the event a comet (like the one on its way?) hits earth.

2012: Magnetic poles will shift, comet hits earth and solar flares set us on fire.

Of course one has to ponder WHY?

Well the way I see it...Hillary will get elected in '08. After 4 years (note this now becomes 2012) the Klinton socialist machine will fix the election to insure she gets elected again. Thus on Dec 21, (as predicted by the Mayan calendar) the whole universe is going to turn against her for mucking it up so badly and see to it Hillary does not take office on 4 Jan 2013.

[Robert J. Yates]

Originally posted by SavageSun4x4

2012: Magnetic poles will shift, comet hits earth and solar flares set us on fire.

Thus on Dec 21, (as predicted by the Mayan calendar) the whole universe is going to turn against her for mucking it up so badly and see to it Hillary does not take office on 4 Jan 2013.

Bwahahahahaaaaaaa Hillary being the reason for the the start of armageddon. OMG
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The sad truth to the matter though is that there are plenty of fundementalist muggs out there that could easily be sheopled into belieiving that....same as the hippies getting sheopled into believing in global communism *cough* I mean global warming.