Need a new camera!

[Jeff Weston]

After seeing my brother-in-law's holiday photos with his digital SLR next to mine with the Canon SD 600 of the same subjects, confirms to me that I need a new camera. With the new baby coming any day, I figure I better get scooting on this.

He bought an Olympus simply because he had a lot of Olympus lenses. I do have 3 or 4 decent Minolta SLR lenses myself, but they are autofocus.

So, that pretty much leaves me a free agent with respect to brand, with only that minor thing like a budget left to consider. After looking at Cnet.com which seems to give nice reviews in layman's terms that neophytes such as myself can understand (as opposed to dpreviews which never seems to point out a yay or nay in black and white), their top two rated 'pro-sumer' SLR's are the Nikon D80 and the Canon Eos XT.

Ideally, I'd like it to be as affordable as possible, lets say under $1000 for the camera and a good starting lens. The Canon kit can be had for under $700 which is not a bad thing.

BTW, this will be mostly for pics of the kiddies, vacations, etc.

So, any recommendations? A search on this board shows a recommendation for a Nikon D50, however Cnet does not seem to like the D40, D50 or D70 as much as the Canon XT. Interestingly, they don't like the new XTi as much as the XT.

[TObject]

I believe the New Sony Alfa cameras take Minolta lenses. But check first if the lenses that you have are compatible.

You can't go wrong with Nikon.

You can still get new Nikon D70s and at very descent prices too. Nikon D50 is a little more cheaply made, but it is newer and also takes fantastic pictures. Nikon D80 replaces the D70/D70s, but takes different memory cards. Then there is Nikon D200, if you go for that one then get it as a kit with the 18-200 VR lens ? very versatile, and convenient for light travel.

[Jeff Weston]

I'm not good enough to keep up with kids with manual focus lenses.

It seems to me Sergey that you feel pretty strongly about the Nikons. Part of me says go for a Canon Rebel for well under $1000 with an 18-55 mm lens. The other part says live a little and get the Nikon D80. The one knock that I have been reading about the Canon Rebels is that they are kind of light and can be overwhelmed by the weight of a heavier, sturdier lens.

Is the 18-55 mm lens that comes with these kits enough to get me started?

Thanks.

[steelman]

I got my wife the Canon Digital Rebel XT for Christmas. Though it's only been a short time, I can definitely tell that it's a great camera! We wanted to go with the Canon as we already have Canon various lenses.

Hint: Check Craigslist or other similar sites. I got ours from a guy that was selling his that was less than a year old, had the original packaging and all of the accessories (and he included a 1GB card for it too) and only paid $450 for it. You would never know that it was used.

[TObject]

There is bitter rivalry between Canon and Nikon owners. I am not going to diss the other camp. Both Nikon and Canon make fine cameras and lenses. You get what you pay for with both. Kit lenses are usually the cheapest and the crappiest, more so with Canon . If you want to stay under $1000 you won?t get professional quality glass unless you are willing to start with non-zoom lenses.

The 50mm f/1.8D AF Nikkor Lens, for example, is great for how little it costs.

I own a Nikon D70 camera and following Nikon lenses:

60mm f/2.8D AF Micro-Nikkor
70-200mm f/2.8G ED-IF AF-S VR Zoom-Nikkor
12-24mm f/4G ED-IF AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor

My next Nikon lens will probably be a 17-35mm f/2.8D ED-IF AF-S Zoom-Nikkor or a 17-55mm f/2.8G ED-IF AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor.

For examples of my work you can check out these couple of albums:
http://www.expeditionsaustralia.com/...our/index.html
http://www.expeditionsaustralia.com/...olo/index.html

A fiend of mine takes pictures with a D50 and kit lenses. Here is one of her albums:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/noodle/...7594280295570/

I would recommend spending more money on lenses even if you have to get a cheaper camera. You will be replacing cameras more often; lenses, on the other hand, are a long term investment.

A good Nikon online forum can be found by following this link:
http://www.nikonians.org/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi

[Jeff Weston]

The D80 kit comes with the 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6G ED-IF AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor lens. Is this decent for a first lens. For what I'll be doing, I need one good all around lens, first and foremost.

http://www.nikonusa.com/template.php...productNr=2162

I can pick up the D80 kit after coupon locally for $1143 + tax.

Thanks again.

[Paradiddle]

I really like my Canon Rebel XT. I, like you, had a Canon film camera so I had lenses that I wanted to reuse.

It takes great pictures, has the same features as the Nikon, and feels good in your hands. The shutter speed of the sport setting is perfect for taking pics of the kids games.

Get one - you won't be unhappy. Get 2 1 GB cards and an extra battery and you are ready to rock.

Jeff

[Jeff Weston]

Originally posted by Paradiddle
I, like you, had a Canon film camera so I had lenses that I wanted to reuse.

My lenses are manual focus Minoltas so I am currently a camera free agent.

[TObject]

I haven?t tried the 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6G ED-IF AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor lens myself. Ken Rockwell thinks that it is ok but recommends the Nikon 18-200mm VR instead.

I wouldn?t buy the 18-135mm alone, but in the D80 kit, you get it for about $100 cheaper, and so, maybe it is not such a bad idea. Expect barrel distortion at the wide end and some color fringing. Sharpness should be ok, though. Reportedly, 18-70 DX or 18-55 DX can provide better image quality, but, obviously, they don?t reach as far.

Nah, don?t over think it. Sounds like what you picked is a good start: go get it tiger!

[Jerry Bransford]

One more camera characteristic to keep in mind is the length of delay from the time you push the button to when it actually takes the photo. There's a noticeable difference in many of the digital cameras I've tried, even a few of the top-end SLR digital cameras I tried out. If there's much of a delay, as some have, it's quite distracting.

And how many frames-per-second it can take is related to that first characteristic.

Lense-wise, I doubt there's any real difference in the quality of a high-end Nikon and a high-end Canon lense. I always wanted a Nikon because of Nikon's reputation but always seemed to end up with a Canon which I think is probably as good but without the cachet.

[papromike]

Cannon D20 or EOS Rebel XT are great cameras.

Unless you want to run with the big boys.. then you can get a

Cannon D1 ($9500) just for the body!!!

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by Jeff Weston
The D80 kit comes with the 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6G ED-IF AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor lens. Is this decent for a first lens. For what I'll be doing, I need one good all around lens, first and foremost.

http://www.nikonusa.com/template.php...productNr=2162

I can pick up the D80 kit after coupon locally for $1143 + tax.

Thanks again.

Let me try and put this in terms that make sense Jeff. Buying the D80 or Canon equivalent is about the same as hopping on the Space Shuttle for a quick flight up to Sacramento.

There are professional photographers making a living with much less camera.

I have a D70 and have only begun to understand it's capabilities.

Sure it'll do point and shoot and do it at 3 frames a second if you want it to, but that's only a small portion of it abilities and it's below the D80.

If you want to make up your mind, come and get it, some cards, a couple of the lenses and see what you think.

I will say that one area Nikon rules in is battery life. Kat used it one weekend in JV and took over 450 medium resolution pics on one recharge. I have two and with all the dinking around I do have never run one down. If fact, you can leave it on for several weeks if you wish with no harm.

Jerry- I'd be interested in knowing which top DSLR had the shutter delay. That is most definitely not a trait of the D70.

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by papromike
Cannon D20 or EOS Rebel XT are great cameras.

Unless you want to run with the big boys.. then you can get a

Cannon D1 ($9500) just for the body!!!

If you're gonna try and start a camera war, at least spell Canon right.

[Jerry Bransford]

Originally posted by mrblaine
If you're gonna try and start a camera war, at least spell Canon right.

Girlfriend and I are walking down Main Street in Disneyland 40 years ago and I have my Canon camera with a huge long telephoto lens mounted on it. She glances at it and says 'that looks like cannon hanging from your neck'. I did my best geek-snort and said 'It is a Canon hanging from my neck and she cracked up as I showed her that the camera was indeed a "Canon". Well ok so this doesn't sound so funny now, you just had to be there.

[Jeff Weston]

Nice analogy there Blaine. You are correct in your insinuation that all of these cameras are pretty high powered and will likely do much more than I would ever ask of them. That said, I understand the importance of "marrying" myself to a brand so I would like to make the purchase accordingly.

Jerry is correct that some SLR's do have slow response times. I can't remember which review I was reading, but one of the ones I saw was being knocked for a 0.7 second delay between pressing the button and taking the picture. For my needs, no matter how good the picture, that wouldn't be satisfactory.

Sergey, Costco had the D80 kit but with two lenses, an 18-55 and a 55-200 lens. Unfortunately, they didn't have the specs on it, but I'm guessing they are the Nikon 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G ED AF-S DX Lens and the Nikon 55-200mm f/4-5.6G ED AF-S DX Lens. There it would be $1299 + tax.

Oh yeah, I know I could save a few bucks by ordering out of New York, but I don't have that kind of time and would like the availability to exchange it locally if I don't like it.

Thanks for the help.

[edit] The Nikon D40 has a 0.7 second shutter lag according to Cnet. They also say that all Nikon lenses are not compatible with it.

[NAILER341]

i have a canon and love it.
if you decide to go that route, i have a couple of decent lenses i can sell you for a very fair price.
i hava a sigma 24-70 and a 70-200 lens. both are f2.8

you will most certainly get conflicting info on cameras. if you have a nikon, you'll let the world know they are the greatest.
as i said, i have a canon, and am quite sure there arent any better cameras in the woooorrrllld.

you can get a canon 10D for a song these days. it is a pro-sumer camera with 6.3 MP, which is more than enough for 8.5x11 prints.
something else to think about.

edit: you are welcome to borrow those lenses to make sure you like them. they are also still under an extended warranty.

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by NAILER341
[B]

you will most certainly get conflicting info on cameras. if you have a nikon, you'll let the world know they are the greatest.

Unfortunately, the world knows that Nikon owners don't have to lie.

[NAILER341]

Originally posted by mrblaine
Unfortunately, the world knows that Nikon owners don't have to lie.

just a bit of embellishment

[TObject]

The D40 has its own place under the sun, as the smallest DSLR from Nikon, so far. But, yes, it will only auto focus with lenses that have built-in motor. May not be such a big deal, if you are buying new lenses anyway.

I think the 18-55 and the 55-200 will give you better quality pictures than the 18-135. But the obvious inconvenience is that you'll have to switch between the lenses. I borrowed the 18-55 lens a couple of times, and it performs fairly good for what it is.

[papromike]

I still say Canon Eos 1D

it is the worlds fastest slr digitalcamera..


Magnesium body, environmentally sealed, based on EOS-1V
Integrated battery compartment / vertical hand grip
4.48 megapixel CCD sensor (primary colour filter)
Focal length multiplier: 1.3x
Output image size: 2464 x 1648 or 1232 x 824
JPEG (Fine/Normal), RAW (12-bit)
Simultaneous RAW+JPEG mode (saves RAW plus either Full size or Half size JPEG)
Maximum burst speed of 8 fps for up to 21 JPEG frames or 16 RAW frames
Option to also record a JPEG file when shooting RAW
ISO 200 - 1600 in 1/3 stop steps, ISO 100 or 3200 available from a custom function
ISO sensitivity bracketing
Same 45-point AF as EOS-1V

57 ms shutter release and 87 ms viewfinder blackout

little comparison for you

Nikon D1 CCD 2.66 2012 x 1324 2000 x 1312 1.5x 23.7 x 15.6 11.8 x 11.8

Canon EOS-1D CCD 4.15 2496 x 1662 2464 x 1648

[TObject]

Jeff,

I don't think the 0.7 second D40 shutter lag figure is accurate. I haven't held the camera in my hands, but there are a lot of posts on the internet debunking the mentioned review.

One of my problems, my junk is so big it stays home most the time. I am actually thinking abut buying the D40 kit myself; put the camera body in one pocket, the lens in another, and I will have a camera with me always.

[Jeff Weston]

Thanks for the advice, it certainly helped. The battery is now charging on my new Nikon D80 with the 18-135 mm lens. I'm going to play around with a bit and then see what I need from there. One thing I completely forgot about was a UV and/or polarizing filter for the lens. Hopefully I have some the correct size in my bag.

Thanks again for the help.

[Jeff Weston]

Originally posted by TObject
most the time. I am actually thinking abut buying the D40 kit myself; put the camera in one pocket, the lens in another, and I will have a camera with me always.

You could've saved me $700 if you posted this little tidbit a few hours ago.

Seriously, for a kickaround camera, I still have a few point and shoots. I was actually into photography quite a bit in college so this may rekindle the flame.

[TObject]

Jeff,

Congratulations on the camera. D80 is a fantastic piece of technology, and I am sure you will enjoy it very much. There is no question about it: D80 is a more sophisticated camera than D40. Among numerous other things, D80 is faster, and thus better for sports and kids running around. D80 also has better autofocus system and much better viewfinder.

I can?t wait to see pictures from your new camera.

The above mentioned Ken Rockwell has a large section on his web site with tips and tricks about the D80:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d80...uide/index.htm

And here is a link to Nikonians D80 users group:
http://www.nikonians.org/cgi-bin/dcf...conf=DCConfID3

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by Jeff Weston
Thanks for the advice, it certainly helped. The battery is now charging on my new Nikon D80 with the 18-135 mm lens. I'm going to play around with a bit and then see what I need from there. One thing I completely forgot about was a UV and/or polarizing filter for the lens. Hopefully I have some the correct size in my bag.

Thanks again for the help.

If you plan on shooting in NEF format/Jpeg skip the smaller cards and go straight to the faster 2 gig cards.

You average about 10 megs per photo.

[mrblaine]

Originally posted by papromike
I still say Canon Eos 1D

it is the worlds fastest slr digitalcamera..


Magnesium body, environmentally sealed, based on EOS-1V
Integrated battery compartment / vertical hand grip
4.48 megapixel CCD sensor (primary colour filter)
Focal length multiplier: 1.3x
Output image size: 2464 x 1648 or 1232 x 824
JPEG (Fine/Normal), RAW (12-bit)
Simultaneous RAW+JPEG mode (saves RAW plus either Full size or Half size JPEG)
Maximum burst speed of 8 fps for up to 21 JPEG frames or 16 RAW frames
Option to also record a JPEG file when shooting RAW
ISO 200 - 1600 in 1/3 stop steps, ISO 100 or 3200 available from a custom function
ISO sensitivity bracketing
Same 45-point AF as EOS-1V

57 ms shutter release and 87 ms viewfinder blackout

little comparison for you

Nikon D1 CCD 2.66 2012 x 1324 2000 x 1312 1.5x 23.7 x 15.6 11.8 x 11.8

Canon EOS-1D CCD 4.15 2496 x 1662 2464 x 1648

That's all well and good, but there's a bigger issue here. Unless you are a good enough photographer and understand the differences enough for them to influence your choice, it just doesn't matter. Outside of Sergey, and maybe Erik, I don't believe there is anyone on here that it would actually make a difference to other than bragging rights.

If you can't carry on an intelligent conversation about the differences in how noise is dealt with at the different ISO settings between CMOS and CCD based sensors and how the number of pixels per square mm matters, then get the one that's shiny and black. It really doesn't matter.

[JeepKat]

http://www.expresscameras.com/prodet...620700&start=1

You can get the D200 Nikon Camera Body for $549.00 no tax and shipping of $16.47

The link to this place was in the Amazon.com link that Sergey posted.

What do you think Sergey, is this a scam?

Great prices on Nikon lenses too!

[TJP]

Originally posted by JeepKat
http://www.expresscameras.com/prodet...620700&start=1

You can get the D200 Nikon Camera Body for $549.00 no tax and shipping of $16.47

The link to this place was in the Amazon.com link that Sergey posted.

What do you think Sergey, is this a scam?

Great prices on Nikon lenses too!

Check them out @ resellerratings.com. CROOKS!

[TObject]

Yes, there are quiet a few places that advertise lower prices to lure you in and then up sell you on a bunch of sub-standard accessories at high prices. If they fail to get more money out of you, then you ether never receive your order, or receive something other than brand new manufacturer’s package.

I usually buy from Amazon.com direct, or from B&H Photo or Adorma or J&R of New York, or from Camera World of Oregon. Sometimes I support local shops and buy from them.

Edit: oops, I haven’t bought from Camera World in a while. Looks like Ritz Camera owns them now.

One thing these lowball advertisers are good for is exercising the American Express Low Price Guarantee program. There are limitations, but I did it once: bought a camera from a reputable place, and then mailed American Express the web site printout with lower price, they gave me the difference.

www.jeepbbs.net is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com.

[Britain]

I Use both Nikon and Canon.

Regardless of the camera and its functions a bad lens will make a good camera trash.

I carry a bag full lenses while taking wheeling pics. I would rather in these conditions have a point n shoot camera.

With the Digitals and interchangable lenses be ready to clean your imaging chip!