Cage questions

[Paradiddle]

So I think I've decided my next major mod is a cage. I felt very safe in my flop with my factory cage and it certainly did it's job, but I'm a little more uneasy about things now.

My requirements are good protection and compatability with my factory top and door surrounds. Egress to the rear cannot be compromised as my kids ride with me. I'm not interested in a bolt together cage at this time.

I have two avenues that I'm considering.

1 - PSC Sport cage. Looks like it would work pretty well. It's very affordable. Has a rear spreader. Connects to the floor. The gay spider logo is gone. I know I'd have to find someone to weld it in, but it isn't a super complicated install.

Cost $380 (with rear spreader and grab bars)+shipping+welding - let's say $420 to my door sans welding.

2 - 4xDoc/T&J cage. I really like/want a through dash cage. They both do great work and I've seen examples of the 4XDoc stuff. I'm sure they both have it nailed down so everything works (door surrounds, etc.)

The price on this is a killer at $1000 minimum. I have no idea how long either shop takes.

So. If I can wrangle the welding side of it is there any reason not to go PSC? In my current financial state the extra $600 to go with a custom cage is certainly an obstacle. What is everyone's opinion? Should I weld a rear spreader and sleeve the factory sides and wait on a cage?

REACTION!

Jeff

[Chris L]

Jeff--
I woud be more than happy to help/do the PS cage if that's the route you wanna take. I know your regular welder has many projects in his yard . Just order it and call me.

[Chris L]

Originally posted by Paradiddle
The gay spider logo is gone. I know I'd have to find someone to weld it in, but it isn't a super complicated install.

By the way, i do have the gay spider logo on mine, but if I do yours, I can always thow some rainbow stickers on there to make you feel better...

[Paradiddle]

Originally posted by Chris L
Jeff--
I woud be more than happy to help/do the PS cage if that's the route you wanna take. I know your regular welder has many projects in his yard . Just order it and call me.

Thanks Chris!!!

I thought I'd paint my pink to compensate for the missing spYder!

Not that there's anything wrong with having a spider on your cage...

Jeff

[Robert J. Yates]

Jeff,
I have the Or-fab kit and am quite pleased with how it went together. I added the floor kit and dash bar options as well as a rear spreader bar from Rockhard. I am fully satisfied that the cage as I have it installed will hold up and I also like the way everything fits and preserves the basic functions such as vents, window cranks, soft top latches ect.

For the floor tie in kit, while it uses the drain plug and tub floor as a mounting point for the foot, I drilled all the way through my rocker armor (Currie) so its tied in to that as well. I may eventually add another bolt to the foot but I am plenty satisfied about its strength. I also added another set of bolts to the dash bar so its captured on both sides of the down-tube - I don't think its going anywhere either. Cost worked out to $520 at my door including the rear Rockhard spreader bar.

The install took Michael and myself a good day to install a cage in each of our Jeeps - the biggest PITA was grinding out the powdercoat inside the tubes so we could fit the cage together.

[igofshn]

I have Toys by Troy cage (same as OR Fab) and am really satisfied. I still need to do the floor tie in and put a cross brace on the rear but the price is good.

[blkTJ]

for the record, Mike's shop took about 2 and a half days.

[Jeff Weston]

Originally posted by blkTJ
for the record, Mike's shop took about 2 and a half days.

I had mine done in a about 2 days (painted as well). To make it easier (cheaper), I removed all the seats and belts (except driver) and carpet prior to dropping it off.

The one thing I do like about the custom behind the dash cage is that you retain the most visibility due to the fact that the downbars are put right up against the corner of the windshield frame (I can't even fit my fingers through there). This does come at the added time and effort (cost) of doing the compound bends to get it to fit tight in there and without having to modify the air ducts. My chief complaint of the TOR, EOR, etc. cage kits is that the downbar goes right down the center of the air ducts and partially blocks the view (I know this because the 4XDoc had my cage originally tacked in place like this and I didn't like it).

If you can still get it done for $1000, that is pretty reasonable if you figure out a shop rate times the number of hours it takes to build from scratch. That said, it still is a grand. Unless I'm missing something, I'm not sure the PSC cage that you listed is any stronger than the OR Fab/et al cage with the floor tie-in and center overhead spreader option. As a matter of fact, doesn't the OR Fab cage use .120 wall from the windshield to the main hoop while the PSC retains the thinner walled stock?

Oh well, I certainly do not profess to be an expert on this. Anything that supports the windshield and keeps it from folding down towards the driver's face is money/time well spent. The less obtrusive, the better, IMO.

[Robert J. Yates]

The OR-Fab downtubes tuck inside the windshield frame and do not disrupt your view. The dash bar is left up to the individual to space it above the dash so you could probably screw that up if you measured once and then drilled. Mine is about 3 sheets of paper in thickness above the dash and while it doesn't really hinder the view, it does bother me out on the edges but then I'm still getting used to it......

Jeff Weston is right on the side tubes being .120 from OR-Fab which was one of the other reasons why I liked that kit. I would like some triangulation at the corners (grab bars) but that wasn't an option. I can also say that the powdercoat on my kit was really well done. The overall quality of the kit was pretty good.

[Jeff Weston]

... Oh yeah, if you do the intall at Chris' house, I'm close enough that I can come over and kibitz!

[mudpup]

I know EOR's is .120 all around

[TJP]

I also have the Or-Fab tied in the same way as Robert. The dash bar was not offered when I put mine in. Robert, or someone, could you explain the idea of using the dash bar, I'm just not sure if its needed since there is a spreader at the top. Thankyou.

[Robert J. Yates]

I have no engineering background to back up my theory but my thought on getting the dash bar was that since the downtubes were not of the traditional construction, ie tube all the way to the floor, the dashbar would help to distribute any sideways shock loading.

The weak point with these cages seems to be their attachment to the dash/firewall - one reason why I liked the OR-Fab was because of all the extra material when you use the floor mount.

By providing another bracing point lower down than the top spreader, my thought on the dashbar was that it would help to strengthen this weakpoint.

[DsrtJeeper]

Keep the input coming guys. This is my next purchase after the last few incidents i've read about lately. I've even considered attaching sheetmetal to the bars above my head.

[Scott Hill]

Does any one have the links to all the products disscused?


This is on thing I need to start looking at.


Scott

PS anyone have a set of stock front bars from adding a cage? I could use them if they are complete with both flanges.

[DsrtJeeper]

The price of the EOR cage sure is appealing. A friend just installed the full Poison Spyder cage with tieins. What a nice looking cage...
The only problem I can see is the fact that I can have a custom cage built and installed for the price of that kit plus welding charges.

[Robert J. Yates]

Originally posted by Scott Hill
PS anyone have a set of stock front bars from adding a cage? I could use them if they are complete with both flanges.

I know I have the bars Scott, not positive on the flanges so I'd have to take a look in the garage. They're yours if ya want em.

[Croaker]

Originally posted by Scott Hill
PS anyone have a set of stock front bars from adding a cage? I could use them if they are complete with both flanges.

For the Toys By Troy unit, you re-use the factory flanges on the main-hoop end of the stock bars.

[Scott Hill]

I have my flanges welded to the bar from a failed roll bar install that was removed.

I will take them Robert, Thank you



Scott

[Robert J. Yates]

I'll be around the house probably Sunday/Monday if you are going to be in the area.

[Scott Hill]

I will let you know.


Scott

[William]

If you get a cage, make sure the overhead loop is welded. The stock one is bolted, and needs to be welded. Mine snapped the bolt and the sleave essentially split open ~ into my head. What I lacked in brains before was compounded by this failure.

[Milan]

I too use the child seat buckle. $5.00 at Walmart I think. I did buy a lap belt but never installed it. I figure in a roll, the body just gets flung around and the upper body would get "thrown out" the window or the door opening anyway (based on a video I saw). So I think the theory of hunching down over your center console is just a wishfull thinking. In an endo I'd want some shoulder restraint and not having 5 point harness or provisions for it, the child seat buckle helps me keep the shoulder harness, yet prevents it from retracting on off-camber or steep hills.

Then there's that thing of 4+ point harness keeping you in but objects coming inside the cab. Would you then be better off with just a lap belt and be able to move? Maybe in some cases but in general I'm not so sure. What sucks is that one cannot predict what would be best and no matter what you have, it may happen to either save you or not. Or it may actually complicate things.

So... then we can just build for most common accidents and best protection from what they cause, right? So a full cage with solid roof and 6 point harness should be it, no? PITA or not.

I hate to think what my $5 buckle would do in an accident. I don't think the stock belts are all that good with or without the buckle. I don't think a lap belt would be any better. And I do have visions of logs coming into the cab, me strapped in a 5pt harness unable to move aside. I hope it all remains just that - thoughts.

[Milan]

Ooops I meant to post this under the Seatbelt topic. Could someone please delete it? Sorry and thank you.

[TObject]

Originally posted by Scott Hill
PS anyone have a set of stock front bars from adding a cage? I could use them if they are complete with both flanges.

I have them. Let me know if you still need them.

Sorry it took me so long to reply, I thought I tossed those in the garbage, turns out I didn't.

[chef]

i recently completed my cage. i designed it after doing a lot of research in cage critiques on pirate and studying competition cages. it's very basic, but seems to be the best design. it's not actually completed...i need to move the harness bar up a few inches and add a diagonalon the main hoop. the seats are tied into the cage as well. it was pretty easy to do, just took some time. it's all 2"x.120 with the exception of the seat mounts, which are 1.5"x.120. i'd have liked to use 1.75" for that but didn't have any and the yards were closed. i was trying to finish the cage for a trip to the rubicon that i had to turn back on, halfway up there..bummer. it's not too heavy, two people can easily lift it, and three of us had an easy time putting it back in after finish welding and paint. no chance to test it out yet it is built off of the stock cage, but i don't think it would be all that hard to build a new main hoop. i'd have liked to do something a little more 'cool' looking, but like i said, this seemed to be the most oft used in competitions and the safest. i also would have liked to do diagonals overhead but being tall, i didn't have the room. i'm planning on adding a couple gussets on the overhead bars, i forgot to put them in while i had the cage pulled.







i need to get to work on my tube fenders, but i also completed this. i figured if i was going to roll, i'd need protection everywhere else, and didn't want to crush the radiator while upside down.


if you need help with anything let me know. i've got a PT notcher and will help tack weld, also in the process of piecing together hydro components for an old hossfeld bender if you need access to one. cost me about $400 to build it. rough estimate because i spread it over a couple months, but yeah.