Where is the American Outrage?

[Daless2]

Where is the American Outrage?


It's time for a little more honesty in this world and a lot less political correctness.

44 Palestinians, 35 of which were Children, were killed by Israel today when they fired one (1) Missile and six (6) tank rounds.

No terrorists, no combatants, only unarmed demonstrators; CHILDREN!!!!!!!!

Israel claims this was an accident; they meant to fire warning shots for the peaceful protesters, but instead hit a building above the protesters. Debris from the building then fell on these protestors killing 44 and injuring more then 100.


So my question is;

Where is the American Outrage Over This?

1. You don't fire Missiles as Warnings to Unarmed people. (Didn't we learn anything from Kent State with riffles?)

2. If your first round screws up, stop shooting them! Don't fire 6 more!

3. If I drive my car and have an accident and kill someone, I AM HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

4. Being this is an election year I sincerely doubt our political leaders are going to lead on this.

5. Who should be held accountable for this? All of us!! This is unacceptable and must be condemned! Loudly!


This is wrong folks, not becuase I say so, but becuase in your heart right now you know it to be wrong too!

Now is the time for America to Lead and hold those accountable to task!


A week or so ago I asked a similar question concerning Islamic Outrage when Nick Berg was beheaded. There was some, but mostly inadequate outragious responce

Now it's our turn!

Will there be some, but mostly inadequate, or will it be real, and loud and very heard to misunderstand?

Guess it's our turn to choose!

Frank

[cbassett]

"Israel expressed regret over the deaths Wednesday and said the casualties were a result of warning shots to hold back the crowd after several gunmen were spotted among several thousand marchers."

"President Bush withheld judgment on the attack, urged restraint on both sides and said innocent life must be respected. "

The only thing missing, IMHO, is "public outrage" over Palestinian militants using women and children as their shields.

[TObject]

I am outraged.

[Robert J. Yates]

Originally posted by cbassett
The only thing missing, IMHO, is "public outrage" over Palestinian militants using women and children as their shields.

....and not to mention mosques as hide outs for snipers and wanted men.

[Jason L Williams]

It's no wonder I worry about my family's safety as the Olympics approach. Will we be prime targets when we are in Greece this summer?

[Paradiddle]

Frank - I read today that we, the US, killed about 40 people at a wedding ceremony near the Syrian border via a helocopter strike.

Maybe with everyone outraged no one can really hear.

On another sad note, Elvin Jones died today - a true giant and one of a kind. The most organic player of his instrument ever.

Lots of bad mojo today...

[Paradiddle]

Early reports may be wrong - we are saying we didn't do it...

(Reuters) - U.S. forces killed dozens in an attack in Iraq's western desert, the army said on Thursday, but reports the victims were innocent civilians sparked more outrage as Washington struggled to contain a prisoner abuse scandal. Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt, deputy director of operations for the U.S. military in Iraq, told Reuters the attack early on Wednesday targeted "a suspected foreign fighter safe house," 25 km (16 miles) east of the Syrian border...

Who knows what is going on anymore.

All I know for sure is this - Isreal is at war. We are at war. People get killed in war.

[cbassett]

Originally posted by Paradiddle
We are at war. People get killed in war.

Just in case anyone missed it the first time.

[BlueJeeper]

Frank is 100% right. There are only two groups to pick from. One, the leaders, demonstrating peacefully to resolve differences in a rational matter. And two, the folks who needlessly silence the leaders with violence.

Your opinion of them shouldn't depend on their Palestinian nationality, or your American or Israeli nationality. It shouldn't matter that Nick Berg was an American. They all belong to the same group... leaders. There can also be Israelis in the leader group, and Iraqis, and Saudis, and Iranians, and French, and Chinese, etc. And infact there are.

The really great thing about that group is that it sure seems like everyone can belong to it, and can join any time, no questions asked.

[Daless2]

Hi folks

There are some pretty good comment here. I can't say I disagree with any of them,

However the question still remains, Where is the American Outrage over the killing of Palestinian CHILDREN!!!


Here's another question for clarity (I'm not looking for an answer publicly, but privately, inside ourselves, including myself.)

Can you imagine your outrage if 35 Israeli children where killed today?
(I mean Israel is at war aren't they? Isn't it possible, God forbid, that this could happen too?)

No one has to acknowledge publicly what we all know to be the truth.

We would all seem to be more outraged at God forbid this event happening as it has in the past.

In fact, it would be all over the news for the next four weeks, and Israel would have to right to self defense as a result of such a tragic act.

Yes I believe we all feel that and know it to be true.


In truth, when Israeli children die, we in America feel a great loss, we feel a tragedy, and express our feelings in outrage, yet who here can claim the same outrage for a Palestinian child killed as in today. 35 of them!

No public answer required, it is one of those soul searching questions. One that doesn't require or need the "yea but...." justification of anything else you may want to place on it to change the subject becuase we don't like how the answer tastes in our mouths.

The pure and simple fact of it is simple, The loss of a Palestinian Child's life, stimulates no where near as great a loss or tragedy as an Israeli Child's life, and we need look no farther then our own hearts to validate this statement for ourselves.

They are all Children, and the Children of God, as taught to me by my Christian Faith. How about yours?


Frank

PS: One of the highest quality on this board is the ability to provoke thought and reason, and express differing viewpoints with each other on some pretty touchy topics, without ripping each others throats out. I sincerely appreciate that in all of us.

[Daless2]

Originally posted by Rick Bernotas
They all belong to the same group... leaders. There can also be Israelis in the leader group, and Iraqis, and Saudis, and Iranians, and French, and Chinese, etc.

Well said Rick,

All accept for the french part! (That's just too great a cavernous leap for me to buy off on!)


Your statement and sentiments are very eloquently said, and right on the mark.

Leadership isn't a quality any of us are born with. It is a quality we choose to employ when we find the courage to do so, and that more often then not comes with a price to be paid!


I recently finished a great book titled: "Why Courage Matters" by Sen. John McCain.

What a great book. If I were the ruler of the world I would have one and only one requirement, that everyone read and study it.

If anyone would enjoy a great read, and some interesting thought provoking questions inside yourself you might want to pick it up.

I think we all need to stop being so gallactically stupid about the "us's and them's" of this world, and start being a bit more of what we like to think ourselves to be, good and honorable and fair.

That comes from the heart.

Have a great night,

Frank

PS: I mis-spoke above. If I were the ruler of the world I would have a second requirement; "No french in leadership positions! Ever!"

[Robert J. Yates]

let us not forget that the palestenians basically declared war on israel and its citizens when they rejected the peace accords and began the intifada.

they had 97% of their land and hundreds of millions of dollars in international investment. arafat won the noble prize for that.

they were on the way to statehood and threw it all away because of radical islam's rejection of the jewish state. I do not call that leadership nor rational behavior. they gave into terrorism of the worst kind - sending women and children into israel as suicide bombers to blow up innocent people. in the face of those choices, I do not have any sympathy for them or their spineless capitulation in allowing their religion to be radicalized by terrorists.

[Daless2]

Hi Robert,

To begin with let me just say I don't believe you!

I know you to be to good and too kind a man for such a radical non-caring, less then human being expression of concern for other innocent peoples.

I recognize the same level of frustration in you that I believe exists in myself and all other like minded fair and decent people.


Isn't it funny how an expression, "concern and caring for the Palestinian plight, for the deaths of these children", is required to be address by a defense of Israel?

I think so!

Why is that? Hmmmm......


Quite often this is then followed up with the throwing around of the label "Anti-Semitic"!

This always blows me away, especially since the Palestinians are of the Semite tribes too!

Funny how that little fact never seems to be brought out into the light of day.

I guess one couldn't hijack the "Anti-Semitic" label to brand folks with if that simple truth were exposed.

What can I say, such is life.



So, that said, let me see if I can summarize,

While we both agree, walking away from a peace agreement with Israel that gave the Palestinians 97% of their land, and TOOK AWAY (let's be completely factual here and not leave the little things out) their "Right of Return" to Israel (as Guaranteed to the Palestinian people by the U.N. Charter that created Israel) was a stupid thing to do.


Hmmmmm......

Somehow those facts and our agreement on those poor choices just don't seem to turn off my outrage of children being killed by tank rounds and a missile. I must be lacking in my genetic make-up somewhere.

I think, but don't know for sure, that in order to fix my flawed genetic make-up so that I would feel the right way about these children I would have to go back in history a few years and relearn how the German's dehumanized people.

Naaa, I'll just live with my flawed genetic make-up on this one.

I prefer to think that firing six tank rounds and one missile from a helicopter into a group of unarmed people is wrong, be those people Palestinians or Israeli.



Notice how I have so successfully avoided the labels Muslim and Jew? There's a reason!

This isn't about Religion now is it.


It is simply about the observation that "we", all of us, (not Palistinians, or Isreali's) know full well that "we" do not react with any where near the same voracity of outrage when Palestinian Children are killed as we do when Israeli Children are killed.

And we don't like that about ourselves. It doesn't fit with what we would like to think of ourselves, or what we wear on our sleeves as our Christian Values.

As a result we do the only thing we can think to do, we go into Defend Israel Mode, Change the Subject and Condemn Anyone who makes us remember we don't really like the foul taste is in our mouths as being Anti-Semitic!!


This isn't about who is right or wrong over there. I am certain we can all affix plenty of blame to all the players.

No this is simply about the incredible lack of outrage over the deaths of 44 people, 35 of which were children at the hands of a helicopter gun ship and six (6) tanks.


I know of no one who can justify this action with an expression of Regret.

It never should have happened.

The only way to stop it from happening again is for good men to impose a COST for it today. Condemn it for what it is, WRONG!

And if needed, inflicting a level of pain for an incredibly poor choice that would prevent this inhuman choice from ever being chosen again.


Imagine if this were done in Germany in 1939, instead of folks just looking the other way at best, and at worst defending the actions as "Just".


Bottom line;

You don't fire Tanks Rounds and Missiles into groups of civilians. (Especially when MY tax dollars paid for those tanks and rounds and missles.)


It's called a "War Crime" at best, and more likely a "Crime Against Humanity", regardless of who walked away from what agreement.

Don't you think?


Shades of 1939 are coming clearly into focus.

It is time to stop it.

It is time to allow our honest and real outrage to be heard as something more important then simply "supporting out side". I beleive that's what the Germans did, but I could be wrong.


Have a great day, and yes this is indeed an interesting discussion, with many viewpoints. None is right or wrong, but I do believe all are needed to be exposed and shared and chewed on for a while.

Who knows, maybe we will find some common actionable thoughts that taste good to our souls.

I haven't found it yet but I'm willing to keep chewing for a while.

I figure I can make my own choices on right and wrong and spit out what doesn't taste good, regardless of which side it comes from.


Frank

[Robert J. Yates]

Originally posted by Daless2
Hi Robert,

To begin with let me just say I don't believe you!

I know you to be to good and too kind a man for such a radical non-caring, less then human being expression of concern for other innocent peoples.

I recognize the same level of frustration in you that I believe exists in myself and all other like minded fair and decent people.

Isn't it funny how an expression, "concern and caring for the Palestinian plight, for the deaths of these children", is required to be address by a defense of Israel?

Quite often this is then followed up with the throwing around of the label "Anti-Semitic"!

Actually Frank, you should believe me. While yes, the killing of innocents is disturbing - my point was that war was declared and when that happens, all bets are off on who is killed or not. As I have mentioned before, if it comes down to a choice of me or them, then I will pick me every time. I don't see where we did anything different with the Japanese in WW2 nor do I see the Israelies doing anything different now.

They are under seige by terrorists using radical islam as their currancy for legitimate action and fully bent on destroying the Jews. They do not want peace, they want them dead.

This is not just about anti semetic behavior on the part of the muslims either - in case anyone hasn't been paying attention, this same force (radical islam) also has us in its sightlines. Unless you are muslim, you are the enemy. That is not my line in the sand, that is their line, drawn by themselves and thus, full responsibility for what happens lies squarely on their shoulders.

The only way to stop it from happening again is for good men to impose a COST for it today. Condemn it for what it is, WRONG!
[/QUOTE]

I don't disagree with that but we are not dealing with rational thought nor an enemy that sees what they are doing as wrong. Radical islam has legitmized terrorism in the minds of those practicing it. I doubt that if we attempt to take the moral high ground that the bin ladens or arafats will stop what they are doing. In fact, arafats rejection of the peace accord to me proves that to be correct. They want us all dead.

As Rudy Guiliani said in the hearings yesterday, do not blame the brave firemen and police for the deaths of those in the towers, place the blame squarely where it belongs, in the laps of the terrorists. I believe that to hold true for the Israelies and us as well.

Personally, I would be taking even stronger action against this destructive force if I were to be Commander in Chief.

[Sephiroth]

Daless the number of men , women and children who have been lost in this war over the years is staggering. TV has brought this and other wars into our homes every night at 6pm , and so much so that very little shocks us anymore. Yes im sure people are outraged over this, but there is so much right now to be outraged about that some of it gets lost in the shuffle. The US armed forces is spred so thin right now and with their hands full in Iroq and the face of that situation changing everyday the US has no time for anything else. And like I always say, if you think that was bad just wait untill tommorow

[StealthTJ]

Ok, the other side of the coin.

Where is the American outrage over the killing of how many (?) Isreal women and children by Palestinian suicide bombers, intentional targeting women, children, innocents in dance clubs, etc.

Not taking a side, one way or the other.
Just looking at the other side of your post.




Fred

[StealthTJ]

Now, the question is the purpose of your two "where's the outrage post".

Is it simply to demonstrate that when a perceived "monstrous act" is committed by one side on another side, that the only side that shows outrage is the receiving side of said act ?

Or, is it genuine confusion on your and/or others part ?


If it's the former, then there's nothing new here. It's been that way, most likely, since the beginning of time and, most likely, will continue way past my time.

One doesn't need to look very far to see this. Simply look outside your window any day of the week, or pick up the newspaper and read the *local* news section.
Blacks/whites, gang members/non gang members, and on and on and on.
Is it more about innocent children , then what about those dying every day, world over, from hunger and disease...... Where's the outrage ?
I suspect it's not about children though, based on your first post.

People select sides, or create sides, and with that comes the behaviour that you seem so upset with.

It's nothing new. It will not change.


Fred