Question for DC

[mrblaine]

I am building skids for 3 jeeps as we speak. I have encountered an unusual situation.

Since I am using the frame brackets and not the motor mounts as mounting points, there are variances in lengths of the mounting braces. All three jeeps have different motor lifts.

What I am asking for is a way to measure the distance from a given point to another given point to determine arm length. Any idea on what those two points could be? I am relatively stumped on this one. The problem is compounded by the fact that the arms are not parallel to anything, but angled. Any change in mounting height of the skid or the relationship between motor and frame necessitates different fixed lengths.

Signed- clueless in jeepsville

It is not who you know, It is who knows you
Jeeps do not make jeepers, jeepers make Jeeps.

[DC]

Blaine,

If you're clueless on this, then I will probably need a brain transplant! In any regard, let me grab my DPSIT (differential proximity scanning interferometer thingy), and let me see what I can come up with. I'll be baack.

Don

P.S. I sure hope my TJ is one of the three lucky Jeeps in this regard (he said hopefully).

[mrblaine]

If International Harvester were to be the manufacturer of your DPSIT, and inserted their initials in the correct place, I think that would be the reason for the brain transplant.

It is not who you know, It is who knows you
Jeeps do not make jeepers, jeepers make Jeeps.

[Ace!]

I wish my Jeep was, but as I haven't heard of this before today I'm of the mind there are three luckier people than me. Maybe my day will be Monday...in the raffle.

Áron O'Proinntigh is ainm dom

[DC]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mrblaine:
I am building skids for 3 jeeps as we speak. I have encountered an unusual situation.

Since I am using the frame brackets and not the motor mounts as mounting points, there are variances in lengths of the mounting braces. All three jeeps have different motor lifts.

What I am asking for is a way to measure the distance from a given point to another given point to determine arm length. Any idea on what those two poin ts could be? I am relatively stumped on this one. The problem is compounded by the fact that the arms are not parallel to anything, but angled. Any change in mounting height of the skid or the relationship between motor and frame necessitates different f ixed lengths.

Signed- clueless in jeepsville
[/quote]

Blaine,

OK, I'm back. First, I assume that the only variable between the skids is the arm length to correctly stand-off of the relative oil pan positions (due to the different motor lifts in the three TJ's). In other words, you must have been able to determine that the twin arm mounting holes that are located in the radius of the motor mount brackets on the frame are located in basically the same place in all three Jeeps.

I don't know if any of the following will be helpful in your efforts, but here goes ...

1) I laid a tape measure flush against the bottom of the frame rails, dead center below the center-line of the twin motor mount bracket holes. This would theoretically enable you to gauge ho w relatively high or low the front portion of the oil pan sits in relation to the frame. You would obviously need this measured for all three TJ's. (In my case, the tape was exactly flush with the forward, bottom surface of my oil pan).

2) This one may not be necessary per se, but I then laid the tape measure across the bottom of the lower control arm brackets. This would theoretically enable you to gauge how relatively high or low the rear sump portion of the oil pan sits between the three Jeeps. If this is useful, you would obviously need this measured for all three TJ's.

Other than giving you some comparitive information between the three TJ's, the above information would relate to support arms that would be 90 degrees off of the skid, which does not directly translate to your angled arms approach.

However, if I start thinking real wacky here (which for DC usually means KIVCS ... "keep it very complicated stupid"), possibly you could use one of the three TJ's to fab-up a base-line version of the skid. Then you could possibly take the differences in stand-off distances from the other two, and use the Pythagorean theorem to calculate the different lengths of the angled arms. Since you will know the desired difference in vertical stand-off (from the above measurements compared to the first prototype), and the lateral distance of the arms in relation to the skid (which should be the same for all three TJ's), you could then "solve" for the length of the angled arms (which will be the hypotenuse in the resultant right triangle for purposes of using the Pythagorean theorem).

Frankly, this seems like a very round-about way to arrive at the desired conclusion. I think it would be a good idea to have other folks on JeepBBS jump in on this, as there is no doubt a more straightforward, and perhaps direct approach that can more easily solve your variable measurement dilemma.

Don –

[DC]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mrblaine:
If International Harvester were to be the manufacturer of your DPSIT, and inserted their initials in the correct place, I think that would be the reason for the brain transplant.
[/quote]

Well, I did notice that my acronym was very close to DIP**** ... but of course leave it to you to connect the dots in this regard.

Don ;

[TObject]

If it is known exactly how high the motor mounts are, you can use the frame mounts as a starting point and calculate the custom length for the links based on the height of the motor mounts. Question: Are motor mounts the only thing that determines the position of the motor? If you have motor height deviating from jeep to jeep even with same height motor mounts used the method will not work.

Here is the task:
Red x – is the length of the link that we need to find
Green alpha – angle between the ground level and the line that goes through link mount on the skid plate and motor mount bracket on the frame
Green a – measured distance between the link mount on the skid plate and motor mount bracket on the frame which belongs to the line above
Green b – height of the motor mounts



Give me a little time to remember geometry, and I will come up with a formula. Only question is, would it be easy for you to measure the alpha angle, or would you prefer, to drop the straight line down from the motor mount, and measure the shortest distance between that dropped line, and the link mount on the skid plate (blue dashed line on the picture)?

[DC]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DC:
DIP****
[/quote]

Hummm ... I believe I have just been subject to some form of JeepBBS censorship. What's a grandpappy rock crawler to do?

[DC]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TObject:
Here is the task:
Red x &nda sh; is the length of the link that we need to find
Green alpha &ndash; angle between the ground level and the line that goes through link mount on the skid plate and motor mount bracket on the frame
Green a &ndash; measured distance between the link mount on the skid plate and motor mount bracket on the frame which belongs to the line above
Green b &ndash; height of the motor mounts.
Give me a little time to remember geometry, and I will co me up with a formula. Only question is, would it be easy for you to measure the alpha angle, or would you prefer, to drop the straight line down from the motor mount, and measure the shortest distance between that dropped line, and the link mount on the skid plate (blue dashed line on the picture)?[/quote]

Geeze ... and I thought I was being too theoretical and geometrically obtuse! Is there a pragmatist in the audience?

[TObject]

Ok here is the formula:



If you are actually going to use it, please let me know, I need to double-check the formula. My geometry is rusty.

[TObject]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DC:

Hummm ... I believe I have just been subject to some form of JeepBBS censorship. What's a grandpappy rock crawler to do? [/quote]

Don’t worry DC, JeepBBS just saved you from committing a crime. Check this information out:

(WARNING – BAD LANGUAGE)
http://www.vmunix.com/mark/seven_dirty_words.html

[TJRON]

Meaure for a stock Jeep and drill some extra holes or, just use brackets for a stock Jeep and let the rocks figure it out or, forget to drill the holes and let the owner drill them where needed.........
I know I'm not DC but I don't mind butting in. Hope you don't.
Ron

[DC]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TObject:
Don't worry DC, JeepBBS just saved you from committing a crime. Check this information out:
(WARNING &ndash; BAD LANGUAGE)
http://www.vmunix.com/mark/seven_dirty_words.html[/quote]

Oh hell (I mean hallelujah) ... I've seen my evil ways and I am saved from a life of crime and damnation! Thank you JeepBBS! !

[DC]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TJRON:
Meaure for a stock Jeep and drill some extra holes or, just use brackets for a stock Jeep and let the rocks figure it out or, forget to drill the holes and let the owner drill them where needed.........
I know I'm not DC but I don't mind butting in. Hope you don't.
Ron[/quote]

Hey Ron,

Are you back in Moab with a full-time computer now, or are you back in Boulder? (I think I liked it better when you were using the computer at the Moab library ... that definitely cut down on your number of posts).

Your neighbor,
Don

[William]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TObject:
If it is known exactly how high the motor mounts are, you can use the frame mounts as a starting point and calculate the custom length for the links based on the height of the motor mounts. Question: Are motor mounts the only thing that determines the position of the motor? If you have motor height deviating from jeep to jeep even with same height motor mounts used the method will not work.

Here is the task:
Red x – is the length of the link that we need to find
Green alpha – angle between the ground level and the line that goes through link mount on the skid plate and motor mount bracket on the frame
Green a – measured distance between the link mount on the skid plate and motor mount bracket on the frame which belongs to the line above
Green b – height of the motor mounts



Give me a little time to remember geometry, and I will come up with a formula. Only question is, would it be easy for you to measure the alpha angle, or would you prefer, to drop the straight line down from the motor mount, and measure the shortest distance between that dropped line, and the link mount on the skid plate (blue dashed line on the picture)?[/quote]

TO,

I'm taking intermediate algerbra for night school this fall. Will you be my tutor?

R/
William Karstens

[mrblaine]

A piece of string will solve this problem handily. I will send you the mounts, the skid and some special string. Put everything in place and cut the string to length between the two mounting points and send it back to me. Correct length arms will be made posthaste and shipped out.

It is not who you know, It is who knows you
Jeeps do not make jeepers, jeepers make Jeeps.

[TJRON]

DC,
Long story but we're not moving. If I get my garage and my wife gets her house we will be broke and I won't be able to **** away our life savings on my Jeep.
The $250 a month Pack Creek Campground RV Park/Dump is going to be my second home for a while. I am returning to Moab Tuesday for a week or so and then on to Ouray and Silverton with the wife then who knows? So you won't have to read my dribble for a while.
BTW, it cost us about $700 to figure out I will probably die here in Boulder City.
Ron

[DC]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TJRON:
DC,
Long story but we're not moving. If I get my garage and my wife gets her house we will be broke and I won't be able to **** away our life savings on my Jeep. :rolley es:
The $250 a month Pack Creek Campground RV Park/Dump is going to be my second home for a while. I am returning to Moab Tuesday for a week or so and then on to Ouray and Silverton with the wife then who knows? So you won't have to read my dribble fo r a while.
BTW, it cost us about $700 to figure out I will probably die here in Boulder City.
Ron[/quote]

Hey Ron ... as I know you realized, I was only kidding you about your increase in posts. But man, I am really sorry to hear about your decision not to move to Moab. I realize it's an important decision that you and your wife needed to make, but it's too bad it looks like it's not going to work out.

Anyway, the invitation still stands for you to drop by our place in La Sal if you get the chance. Also, it's your choice, but we have wheeled a lot of the better known trails around Ouray, Silverton, and Telluride (Yankee Boy Basin, Imogene Pass, Ophir Pass, Black Bear Pass, Engineer Mountain, Animas Forks, etc., etc.), so if you want some company when you and your wife are back over this way, we'd be happy to join you (our part-time work schedules allowing). If any of this interests you, just post back, send an email, or give me a call at home anytime.

Don(

[DC]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mrblaine:
A piece of string will solve this problem handily. I will send you the mounts, the skid and some special string. Put everything in place and cut the string to length b etween the two mounting points and send it back to me. Correct length arms will be made posthaste and shipped out.
[/quote]

Ah, the most straightforward, simple, and pragmatic solution eluded us ... the old string trick! This sounds great and quite doable Blaine. BTW, I don't want to overtly press you on your design approach, but how are you handling the draining of the oil pan and deep tranny pan? Will this be by way of openings in the skid or a removable "mini-plate" like Hellbender has on his set-up? (Just curious). Also, any idea on timing for the initial shipment? (I'm getting excited now!).

Don

P.S. Can I get mine chrome-plated? (yeah, right!)

2000 green Sahara, auto, TeraFlex S3T lift, TeraFlex UCA's & LCA's, TeraFlex front/rear track bars, Edelbrock IAS shocks with TeraFlex rear shock relocators, 4.56 gears, Detroit TrueTrac in D30/Dana TracLok in D44, Advance Adapters SYE, TeraFlex HD rear d riveshaft, 1" Daystar body lift, 1" Metcalf MM's, TeraFlex Belly-Up crossmember, Good Year 33x12.50 MT/R's mounted on Mickey Thompson 15x8 Challenger wheels, Car Sound cat, Flowmaster 50 muffler, and 2.5" exhaust piping. In boxes in the garage

[mrblaine]

The accessibility is the reason for the accuracy of the arms. If you don't have to fight to remove and re-install them, it makes changing oil quite easy.

Given the bizarre places on mine and Sergey's jeeps that have rock damage or dents, I don't trust anything but a solid plate under there.

Fair warning and don't even ask, I will not be making these for anything but a raised skid equipped jeep. Preferably, either the Tera or Currie version.

It is not who you know, It is who knows you
Jeeps do not make jeepers, jeepers make Jeeps.

[Scott Hill]

Blaine,


I now have a custome raised skid I am thinking about having massed produced. 2 things, one who would you have make 25 to 50 of them and 2 do you think you skid design could be a bolt on app maybe I can market it as a combo unit and 3 cause I dont know how to count I would like to get together and see wht you think about the design I have under my Jeep and get any input you might have

a little TJ with a few mods check her out at www.real-jeeps.com

[mrblaine]

Scott, with all the variances in motor height and no really easy way to determine brace length, I doubt that it would be a viable option.

This is not really an original idea. This came about because of damage I have to my armored pans and what I now believe to be areas susceptible to damage.

I will be glad to look at your skid.

It is not who you know, It is who knows you
Jeeps do not make jeepers, jeepers make Jeeps.