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  #1  
Old 07-17-2005, 04:40 PM
silvertj silvertj is offline
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Question about swaybars

A little background. I am currently 4 linking the rear w\ adjustable mounts for AS and roll center. Along with a wheelbase stretch to 102". My rig is of medium weight since most of my new suspension is .250 tubing, with most if not all brackets being .250. The 4 link is double triangulated, with the upper arms converging at the rear pinion and the lowers converging at the t-case. The front is a radius design w\ a trackbar. I am running an Antirock up front. I will have Rockcrawler springs in it with Fox 2.0 emulsion shocks. I have been trying to get the stock swaybar to fit on the rear somehow. Because of the angle of the lower arms, it won't fit in the stock location. I have tried to flip it over and mount it on the rear axle truss. I have thought about adding an extra cross member to mount the swaybar to, but because of the contours it just doens't work the way that I want. I have been thinking about a torsional style to match the front.

What my main question is what size diameter bar are most guys running in the rear? I think I will piece together one for the rear with parts from stockcarproducts.com. I already have the end links and I can machine down Delron pucks to use in 1 3\4 or 2" tubing. So I will need a sway bar and the arms.

If anyone has some info I would appreciate it.

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 07-17-2005, 04:48 PM
mrblaine mrblaine is offline
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Re: Question about swaybars

Quote:
Originally posted by silvertj
A little background. I am currently 4 linking the rear w\ adjustable mounts for AS and roll center. Along with a wheelbase stretch to 102". My rig is of medium weight since most of my new suspension is .250 tubing, with most if not all brackets being .250. The 4 link is double triangulated, with the upper arms converging at the rear pinion and the lowers converging at the t-case. The front is a radius design w\ a trackbar. I am running an Antirock up front. I will have Rockcrawler springs in it with Fox 2.0 emulsion shocks. I have been trying to get the stock swaybar to fit on the rear somehow. Because of the angle of the lower arms, it won't fit in the stock location. I have tried to flip it over and mount it on the rear axle truss. I have thought about adding an extra cross member to mount the swaybar to, but because of the contours it just doens't work the way that I want. I have been thinking about a torsional style to match the front.

What my main question is what size diameter bar are most guys running in the rear? I think I will piece together one for the rear with parts from stockcarproducts.com. I already have the end links and I can machine down Delron pucks to use in 1 3\4 or 2" tubing. So I will need a sway bar and the arms.

If anyone has some info I would appreciate it.

Thanks
BTDT and it's just easier to buy Currie's universal rear bar set up. It works well.
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  #3  
Old 07-17-2005, 05:02 PM
silvertj silvertj is offline
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Blaine-

I can get the parts to finish out the swaybar for less than $200. The sway bar is $100 and the arms are less than $40. I already have everything else that I need. Plus shipping would be a little more than half of the Currie kit.

Unless the Currie kit is that good to beat out the cost savings.
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  #4  
Old 07-17-2005, 05:56 PM
mrblaine mrblaine is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by silvertj
Blaine-

I can get the parts to finish out the swaybar for less than $200. The sway bar is $100 and the arms are less than $40. I already have everything else that I need. Plus shipping would be a little more than half of the Currie kit.

Unless the Currie kit is that good to beat out the cost savings.
How long do you want your arms to be?

Who's going to bend the offset in them to clear the upper spring perches?

What rate are you going to get on the bar?

How long do you want the bar to be?

How long do you want your links to be?

How much are the right angle rod ends? You will need 4.

Who's going to thread the links for the rod ends?
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Old 07-18-2005, 07:08 AM
silvertj silvertj is offline
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I think the arms are going to be 12-14". At this length the won't come near the spring perches. The axle end of the links are going to mount behind the springs. The bar needs to be around 44". The rate I am not sure about. Thats why I was asking about the diameter. The links I will build to whatever length I need. I have the right angle links already. I will cut and splice in a longer section of tubing.

The sway bar will be $100 plus a $25 extra length charge.

I have the Delrin in stock at work and can mill it down for the size that I need.

I have the tubing that the Delrin will be machined for.

And I can tap the ends of the sway bar at work with the end mill.

So my basic question is the size of the sway bar and what rate would be good?


Thanks
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  #6  
Old 07-18-2005, 07:45 AM
mrblaine mrblaine is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by silvertj
I think the arms are going to be 12-14". At this length the won't come near the spring perches. The axle end of the links are going to mount behind the springs. The bar needs to be around 44". The rate I am not sure about. Thats why I was asking about the diameter. The links I will build to whatever length I need. I have the right angle links already. I will cut and splice in a longer section of tubing.

The sway bar will be $100 plus a $25 extra length charge.

I have the Delrin in stock at work and can mill it down for the size that I need.

I have the tubing that the Delrin will be machined for.

And I can tap the ends of the sway bar at work with the end mill.

So my basic question is the size of the sway bar and what rate would be good?


Thanks
44.5" at .875 diameter solid.
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  #7  
Old 07-18-2005, 10:44 AM
silvertj silvertj is offline
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Thanks for the info and the good word at JU.
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  #8  
Old 07-18-2005, 11:41 AM
DsrtJeeper DsrtJeeper is offline
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Have any pictures of your suspension that you'd like to share? I'm also curious to read any references you may have showing how to calculate a dual triangulated rear suspension. Thanks!

Eric
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  #9  
Old 07-18-2005, 12:18 PM
silvertj silvertj is offline
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I can take some pics this weekend and get them to you.

As far as calculating, I used the 4 link analyzer off of POR. I can adjust the AS from 65 to 140%. Can't say how its going to ride yet but I am looking forward to it.
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  #10  
Old 07-18-2005, 12:27 PM
DsrtJeeper DsrtJeeper is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by silvertj
I can take some pics this weekend and get them to you.

As far as calculating, I used the 4 link analyzer off of POR. I can adjust the AS from 65 to 140%. Can't say how its going to ride yet but I am looking forward to it.
I'd greatly appreciate the pics. Post them here for all to see; if you don't mind. I still have yet to find a person who can tell me the benefits of a dual triangulated rear. Have you received any insight on this topic? The jury is out on how much AS is ideal also. It will be interesting to hear of your experiences.
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  #11  
Old 07-18-2005, 12:48 PM
silvertj silvertj is offline
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I'll have to figure out how to post pics.

As far as the benefit. I was of the thought that it would fight rear steer. And lessen the amount of stress on the 2 links that were triangulated.

And I like to make things hard on myself
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  #12  
Old 07-18-2005, 02:37 PM
DsrtJeeper DsrtJeeper is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by silvertj
I'll have to figure out how to post pics.

As far as the benefit. I was of the thought that it would fight rear steer. And lessen the amount of stress on the 2 links that were triangulated.

And I like to make things hard on myself
LOL! I hear you.

I've heard both of those benefits as well. With this being said; i've never seen dual triangulation totally alleviate rear steer and how often has anyone seen single triangulation cause enough stress to actually break something?

I can see how having the rear lowers triangulated may help the arms hit less trail obstacles. Also, with dual triangulation; you can wipe out one rear link and still drive home. It still seems like a wash to me either way, but it's something i'd like to try.
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  #13  
Old 07-19-2005, 04:14 AM
silvertj silvertj is offline
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My other thought was that the way that the lowers were triangulated they would protect the d-shaft.

When flexed in the garage it still seems to have a degree or 2 of oversteer.

We shall see I guess.

The reason everything was built with overkill in mind was that this was still going to see some DD time.
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  #14  
Old 07-19-2005, 08:21 AM
mrblaine mrblaine is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by DsrtJeeper
I'd greatly appreciate the pics. Post them here for all to see; if you don't mind. I still have yet to find a person who can tell me the benefits of a dual triangulated rear. Have you received any insight on this topic? The jury is out on how much AS is ideal also. It will be interesting to hear of your experiences.
And even if they did post an ideal number that they could prove was ideal, you nor most of them would be able to duplicate it because very few spend the time to find their COG accurately. Without knowing the COG, everything is just a guess based on a theoretical point in space that may or may not be where you think it is.
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  #15  
Old 07-19-2005, 10:03 AM
silvertj silvertj is offline
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Blaine is quite correct. All the measurements and assumptions are based on an educated guess.

I hope I am educated enough to guess correctly
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  #16  
Old 07-19-2005, 10:09 AM
Matt Pascoe Matt Pascoe is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by mrblaine
And even if they did post an ideal number that they could prove was ideal, you nor most of them would be able to duplicate it because very few spend the time to find their COG accurately. Without knowing the COG, everything is just a guess based on a theoretical point in space that may or may not be where you think it is.
Blaine and I had a brief conversation the other day about COG guesses. Since then I have played around with the 4-link calculator and remebered/realised a few things...

The front to rear location of you COG is irrelevent in regards to calculating your antisquat. It's height above or below your instant center that controls AS%.

Blaine suggested that my COG might be 6" lower than I had guessed (I used the top bolt of my bellhousing). That 6" drop in COG changed my AS% from 70% to 86%... pretty substantial.

So yes, knowing the exact location of your COG is extremely important if you want to design handling characteristics into yoiu suspension.
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  #17  
Old 07-21-2005, 08:52 AM
The Freak The Freak is offline
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Swaybars?

Swaybars are overrated!
They only bind up your suspension when you go over big rocks.
You should remove them and see how the jeep flexes then.
My buddy did this on his 2001 TJ with just a 2" spring spacer kit and RTI'd at over 1000!
Try it, it works.
Besides you are going to need the extra cash for your driveshafts, Aren't you?
Stewart.
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  #18  
Old 07-21-2005, 08:57 AM
mrblaine mrblaine is offline
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Re: Swaybars?

Quote:
Originally posted by The Freak
Swaybars are overrated!
They only bind up your suspension when you go over big rocks.
You should remove them and see how the jeep flexes then.
My buddy did this on his 2001 TJ with just a 2" spring spacer kit and RTI'd at over 1000!
Try it, it works.
Besides you are going to need the extra cash for your driveshafts, Aren't you?
Stewart.
You don't get out much, do you?

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Old 07-21-2005, 09:04 AM
silvertj silvertj is offline
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I call BS on that statement, Freak.
And do I know you? Are you poo?
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  #20  
Old 07-21-2005, 09:23 AM
DsrtJeeper DsrtJeeper is offline
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Freak;
Let's play "Follow the leader." You let me know when we should stop.

My Teraflex 3" lift with rear swaybar connected ramped 1050. Your point?
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  #21  
Old 07-21-2005, 10:19 AM
The Freak The Freak is offline
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Talking Sorry guys...

I am partly responsible for the build of the
silvertj's jeep.
We have been working on it together for about two months now.
I was just pulling his chain.
I dont really think that way...except on my coal cart!The sway bars fell off that VERY early in the build.
Chris
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  #22  
Old 07-21-2005, 12:36 PM
DsrtJeeper DsrtJeeper is offline
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Re: Sorry guys...

Quote:
Originally posted by The Freak
I am partly responsible for the build of the
silvertj's jeep.
We have been working on it together for about two months now.
I was just pulling his chain.
I dont really think that way...except on my coal cart!The sway bars fell off that VERY early in the build.
Chris
Nice entrance. Now get your buddy to post some pics of his rear suspension.
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  #23  
Old 07-21-2005, 12:55 PM
The Freak The Freak is offline
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Rear suspension pics

We are considering applying for patent rights before we...
Just kidding, I'll beat on him a little for ya.
Chris
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  #24  
Old 07-21-2005, 09:23 PM
silvertj silvertj is offline
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Hey, its 1 am on the East coast. Just got finished taking pics. Hope to have them up later.
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  #25  
Old 07-21-2005, 09:30 PM
DsrtJeeper DsrtJeeper is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by silvertj
Hey, its 1 am on the East coast. Just got finished taking pics. Hope to have them up later.
Good deal! Thanks.
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but rather to skid in sideways,
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  #26  
Old 07-22-2005, 07:47 PM
Chris L Chris L is offline
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Here is a link to some rear antirock install pics if your interested.
http://www.fototime.com/inv/649157D5D0F5FFB
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  #27  
Old 07-23-2005, 04:45 AM
silvertj silvertj is offline
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Thanks for the pics.
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