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  #1  
Old 09-09-2006, 07:02 PM
mrblaine mrblaine is offline
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The power of the internet

is phenomenal for the instigation of incorrect and non factual information to the point where myth becomes reality due to the cut and paste masters.

Anyone care to help explore that thought for some entertaining enlightenment?

If so, let's take a few common everyday things and use the net to look them up.

Let's start with bleeding brakes- Very simple, post up the accepted method of manually bleeding brakes that you find on the 'net.

I'll go dig one up to start it off.
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  #2  
Old 09-09-2006, 08:00 PM
Tumbleweed Tumbleweed is offline
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This is gonna be good.
When you are done with brakes; try finding the method for measuring shock length for a rig.
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  #3  
Old 09-09-2006, 09:20 PM
chef chef is offline
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I figured I'd start with Wikipedia, the ultimate user editable database.

The first description is what I've usually read, and practice. Open the bleeder with a hose running from it to a jar, pump the pedal a few times, hold it in, close the bleeder, refill the master cylinder.

Further down the page is a set of instructions saying to pump a few times, hold the pedal down and THEN open the bleeder for a second, close it, release the pedal, and refill. Never heard of that.


Just did the first way to a Jeep about two hours ago and he said it brakes better then ever. I've never been excited about the brakes on my Jeep, even with the dual diaphragm booster and the use of a power bleeder. I'm hoping to learn something from this thread. When are you going to come tear apart all my hard work Blaine?


edit: wanted to add i've always read to go furthest from the master cylinder, to closest.
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Old 09-09-2006, 11:32 PM
Allen Allen is offline
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Hurry up with the info.

I'm bleeding brakes tomorrow.

Allen
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Old 09-10-2006, 04:59 AM
ukjeeper ukjeeper is offline
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I thought "brakes" were generally spelt "breaks" in internet forums? Or is that nota hard and fast rule??









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  #6  
Old 09-10-2006, 08:11 AM
papromike papromike is offline
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Hmm, bleeding brakes, well I always thought that you started with the brake cylinder that was the furthest away from the M/C

I.E. the passengers rear brake cylinder, you did that one, then the reare d/s, then the fronts.


Some jeeps (like myZJ) have a dual diagonal brake proportioning, so not sure if that matters or not.

I always use my handy, dandy 'griogts' garage power bleeder... it works nifty..

am I close???
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Old 09-10-2006, 08:49 AM
mrblaine mrblaine is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by papromike
Hmm, bleeding brakes, well I always thought that you started with the brake cylinder that was the furthest away from the M/C

I.E. the passengers rear brake cylinder, you did that one, then the reare d/s, then the fronts.


Some jeeps (like myZJ) have a dual diagonal brake proportioning, so not sure if that matters or not.

I always use my handy, dandy 'griogts' garage power bleeder... it works nifty..

am I close???
I'm gonna ban the next person who posts in this thread that can't follow directions.

I don't want to know what you think is the correct way to bleed brakes. I want to know what the net tells you is the correct way to manually bleed brakes.

Go find and cut and paste the damn answer.
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Old 09-10-2006, 09:23 AM
Tim Tim is offline
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from drivewerks

Time: 2 hr
Tools: Vacuum brake bleeder, Pressure brake bleeder, Friendly assistant with a good right leg
Applicable Years: All
Talent: 2
Tab: $20
Tinware: Brake fluid
Tip: Bleed your brakes with different colored fluid so that you know when all of your older fluid has been flushed through the system
Performance Gain: Stiffer and safer braking
Comp Modification: Replace master cylinder, replace brake lines

Bleeding brakes is not one of my personal favorite jobs. There seems to be a bit of black magic involved with the bleeding process. Sometimes it will work perfectly, and then other times it seems like you end up with a lot of air in your system. The best strategy to follow when bleeding your brakes is to repeat the procedure several times in order to make sure that you have removed all the trapped air from the system.
The right tools are a necessary part of the job too. A few days before this book was to be sent off to my editor, I had a chance to evaluate a new type of pressure brake bleeder kit from Motive Products. Retailing for about $45, this kit attaches to the top of the master cylinder reservoir and applies pressurized air to the system. Brake fluid is forced out of the master cylinder reservoir and into the system. The pressurized kit is probably the best one around because it is the least likely to create air bubbles in the system. There was a time when no one was manufacturing pressurized bleeders, but thankfully Motive Products now supplies this excellent quality kit at a reasonable cost.

The pressurized system works very well because it pushes the brake fluid out of the reservoir and into the system. In this manner, it is very unlikely to create air bubbles in the system. When small air bubbles form in the brake lines, the entire system suffers as the brake pedal becomes soft. This is because air is much more compressible than the brake fluid. When you push on the pedal, the air trapped in the lines acts like a spring inside of the system. The air becomes compressed, absorbing energy from the system, instead of directing the energy towards pushing the caliper piston against the brake disc.

A second alternative is the vacuum bleeding kit. This kit works in the opposite manner of the pressure bleeder, applying a vacuum to the brake system in order to draw brake fluid out of the car. The system works well, but can sometimes cause air bubbles to form in the lines. Particularly on cars with rear brake proportioning valves like the Porsche 914, the vacuum system can leave air trapped in these valves, giving a spongy pedal as a result. When using the vacuum bleeding system, the best approach is to bleed each corner of the car several times, in order assure that all the air is out of the system. Simply fill up your brake reservoir, attach the pump system, pump up some vacuum, and then open the bleed nipple. Brake fluid should be pulled out of the system when the vacuum is applied. If it?s not ? you may have a problem with your brake lines.

The third and most labor intensive method of bleeding your brakes involves actually having an assistant press on the pedal while you go around to each wheel and bleed the system. Without a doubt, this is the most effective method of bleeding, and should probably be used as a final procedure when performing any brake system bleeding. This method actually pushes fluid through the system (similar to the pressure-fed system) at a high rate of velocity. Sometimes, air bubbles that are in the system can become dislodged and cleared out by the quick rush of brake fluid when you press on the brake pedal.

The procedure for bleeding the brakes using the brake pedal is pretty straightforward. Attach a small rubber hose to the brake caliper nipple and let the other end hang inside an empty container. Ask your assistant to firmly and quickly press on the pedal 3 times, and hold it down the third time. Then, open up the bleed nipple by unscrewing it slightly. Brake fluid should come rushing out and the pedal should sink to the floor. Make sure that your assistant doesn?t remove his or her foot from the pedal, as that will suck air back into the system. With the pedal still depressed to the floor, tighten up the bleed nipple. When the nipple is closed, have your assistant remove their foot from the pedal.

I recommend that you use this procedure as a final step, even if you are vacuum or pressure bleeding. The high force associated with the pressure from the brake pedal can help free air and debris in the lines. If the brake fluid doesn?t exit the nipple quickly, then you might have a clog in your lines. Brake fluid that simply oozes out of the lines slowly is a clear indication that your rubber lines might be clogged and constricted. Don?t ignore these warning signs ? check out the brake lines while you are working in this area.

Another important thing to remember is that brake fluid kills ? paint jobs that is. Brake fluid spilled on paint will permanently mar the surface, so be very careful not to touch the car if you have it on your hands and clothing. This of course, is easier said then done. Just be aware of this fact. Rubber gloves help to protect yourself from getting it on your hands and your paint. If you do get a spot on your paint, make sure that you blot it with a paper towel - don?t wipe or smear it. It?s also important not to try to clean it off with any chemical or other cleaning solutions.

During the bleeding process, it?s very easy to forget to check your master cylinder reservoir. As you are removing fluid from the calipers, it will be emptying the master cylinder reservoir. If the reservoir goes empty, then you will most certainly add some air bubbles in to the system, and you will have to start all over. Keep an eye on the fluid level and don?t forget to refill it. Make sure that you always put the cap back on the reservoir. If the cap is off, then brake fluid may splash out and damage your paint when the brake pedal is released. If you are using a pressure bleeder system, make sure that you often check the level of brake fluid in the bleeder reservoir so that you don?t accidentally run dry.

If you are installing a new master cylinder, it?s probably a wise idea to perform what is called a dry-bleed on the workbench. This is simply the process of getting the master cylinder full of brake fluid and ?wet.? Simply add some brake fluid to both chambers of the master cylinder, and pump it a few times. This will save you a few moments when bleeding the brakes.

When you are bleeding the system, start with the wheel that is farthest away from the master cylinder, and then work your way back towards the front left wheel. In other words bleed the system in this order: right-rear, left-rear, right-front, left-front. Bleeding in this order will minimize the amount of air that gets into the system. Always bleed each caliper more than once, because bleeding the other calipers can dislodge air into the system. You might be surprised thatafter 5 times around the car there still might be a little bit of air in the system. A good rule of thumb is the more you bleed, the better your brakes will be.

There are few little tricks that you can use when changing your brake fluid. The company ATE makes brake fluid that comes in two different colors. It?s a smart idea to fill your reservoir with a different colored fluid, and then bleed the brakes. When the new colored fluid exits out of the caliper, you will know that you have fresh fluid in your system. Make sure that you use DOT 3 or DOT 4 brake fluid in your car. Some of the later model 911s with anti-lock braking systems required the use of DOT 4. The use of silicone DOT 5 fluid is not recommended for street use.

You should also routinely flush and replace your brake fluid every two years. Deposits and debris can build up in the lines over time and decrease the efficiency of your brakes. Regular bleeding of your system can also help you spot brake problems that you wouldn?t necessarily notice simply by driving the car.
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  #9  
Old 09-10-2006, 09:58 AM
Tumbleweed Tumbleweed is offline
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From Vintage Automotive Products:

How to bleed brakes

This procedure will work great if there are no mechanical problems in your brake system. Bleeding brakes WILL NOT repair mechanical damage!!! For example if your master cylinder or a wheel cylinder is bad you can bleed the brakes all day long and your brakes will still not work, or will not work correctly.

There are several ways to do this job - one involves 2 people, one pumping the brake pedal and the other opening and closing the respective bleeder valve at each wheel. This method is great for Father/Son/Daughter quality time but doesn't actually work very reliably for bleeding the brakes unless you have lots of practice. The reason is that if anybody makes a mistake in the execution of this "dance" it introduces air back into the system and you need to start over. The other problem with this system is that it takes 2 people, sometimes a luxury we don't have.

**********

The first thing is that if you have changed the master cylinder it needs to be bled separately. Buy one of the $3 master cylinder bleeder kits from the auto parts store, or take an old brake line and bend it around so the end goes back into the fluid reservoir on top. You need 2 lines on a dual master cylinder. Fill the cylinder's reservoir and clamp the flange in the vice on your bench. Using a large Philips screwdriver pump the cylinder until all the air is gone from the brake fluid. It helps to stop every few pumps and let the air rise out of the reservoir. You can do this same job with it mounted in the car but it makes a mess and is more complicated if you have power brakes.

The one real "trick" is to build and use a catch bottle at the wheel end of the system. I use a 1 liter plastic pop bottle with a 1/4" hole drilled through the cap. Then you will need about a 2 feet long piece of 1/4" clear surgical rubber tubing. Push the tubing through the hole in the cap and all the way down to the bottom of the bottle. Then fill the bottle about 1/4 of the way up with brake fluid.

You will have a lot better success on a car with power brakes if you start the engine and just let it idle. Some cars will pump just fine without the power assist, others will just never bleed out. Better safe then sorry, start the car. On non power systems it makes no difference, leave it shut off.

Go to the right side rear wheel of the car and open the bleeder valve about 1 turn. Push the end of the tube onto the tapered end of the bleeder valve and make sure the bottle is supported on something solid. Make sure the tube is immersed in the brake fluid in the bottom of the bottle. With the master cylinder full go inside and pump the pedal no more then 5 times and check the master cylinder level again. You want to be careful not to run the reservoir out of fluid or you will have to start over again. Top it off when necessary during this process. Now pump it about 5 more times and check it again. Repeat, repeat repeat. Check the bottle about every 10 pumps for getting too full.

At this point what you want to look for is bubbles/air in the hose going to the bottle. Once you reach the point that you are not getting any more bubbles then there is no more air in that line. Always close the bleeder before you remove the hose, that way no new air has a chance to get into the system.

Then move on to the left rear, the right front, and the left front.

If you follow this procedure you will have done a proper brake bleeding job and will have no air left in the system. I hope this helps save you a lot of hassles.
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  #10  
Old 09-10-2006, 10:03 AM
Tumbleweed Tumbleweed is offline
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From Jeepz.com

I managed to find this brake bleeding kit in a local
parts store. It is a pretty simple setup that you should be
able to make yourself. It has a hose that goes into a jar of
brake fluid.
First, take off the master cylinder lid, and top it
off with fluid
locate the bleeder valve, and loosen it with a
wrench.
Attach a hose to the valve and fully open the valve.
I put a coffee can under everything to catch any
spilt brake fluid. You simple pump the brakes until there
are no more bubbles visible in the clear tube, then run over and
tighten the bleeder valve up again
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  #11  
Old 09-10-2006, 10:03 AM
Kiwi Kiwi is offline
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For bleeding your Porche brakes
======================


After talking to many owners, it would seem that there are more methods for bleeding brakes on a Porsche than there are cures for the common cold. Fortunately, I have polled many people and tried several different solutions, and I think that I have come up with the best compromise solution. This article is adapted from the original 914 brake bleeding article. However, the techniques documented in here are not appropriate for bleeding 914 brakes, as the 914 has that pesky hydraulic proportioning valve. For more information on bleeding 914 brakes, please see our Pelican Technical Article, Bleeding 914 Brakes.
There are currently three methods of bleeding the brake system:

Pressure Bleeding. This is where you have a reservoir of brake fluid, and place a positive air pressure force on the opposite side of the fluid, forcing it into the brake system.
Vacuum Bleeding. This is where you fill the reservoir, and then apply a vacuum at the bleeder nipple to pull fluid through the system.
Family Member Bleeding. This is where you recruit the one family member or friend who owes you a favor and have them stomp on the pedal repeatedly until the entire system is bled. Note that this has nothing to do with the time that little Jimmy fell on the concrete and had to be rushed to the hospital.


The method that I've come up with combines the first and the third methods described above. Basically, I advocate bleeding the system with the pressure bleeder, and then using a family member to stomp on the pedal to free up the proportioning valve. If the family member really owes you big time, you will be the one stomping on the pedal, and they can spill brake fluid all over themselves.

Figure 1:
Eezi-Bleed Pressure System

Figure 2:
Brake Fluid Reservoir


Figure 3:
Bleed Nipple
(914 Caliper Shown)
The first step in bleeding your brakes is to fill the system with brake fluid. Some people have suggested that colored brake fluid be used in order to determine when fresh fluid has been flushed through the entire system. I used a pressure bleeder like the Eezi-Bleed System shown in Figure 1. The system works by pressurizing a bottle filled with brake fluid from air in the spare tire. Inflate your tire to 20 psi, fill the bottle, attach it to the top of the reservoir (Figure 2), and then connect it to the spare tire. This will pressurize the system. Note: brake fluid is highly corrosive and will mar paint very easily. Bleeding your brakes is a messy job; keep yourself away from the paint and don't bleed the system in tight garage. The probability of spilling on yourself and then leaning against your car is too great.
Now start bleeding the system. Start with the right rear caliper, the one that's located furthest away from the master cylinder. You will have to remove the rear wheels of the car to easily get to the rear caliper. The front wheels can be turned for access to the calipers. Bleed the right rear caliper by attaching a hose to the bleed nipple, placing it in a jar, and then opening the valve with a 7mm wrench. A bleeder nipple is shown in Figure 3, and can be opened by turning it counter clockwise. Let the fluid out until there are no more bubbles. If you don't have a pressure bleeder system, you need to find someone to press on the pedal repeatedly to force fluid through the system. Another solution is to get a check valve and place it on the nipple while you stomp on the pedal. This will work for getting fluid into the system but you will still need a second person to make sure you have bleed the proportioning valve properly. If your rear caliper has two bleed nipples (some have one, others have two), bleed the lower one first.

When no more air bubbles come out, then move to the next caliper. Bleed them in this order:

Right Rear Caliper
Left Rear Caliper
Right Front Caliper
Left Front Caliper


Repeat until you can no longer see any air bubbles coming out of any of the calipers. Make sure that you don't run out of brake fluid in your reservoir, or you will have to start over again. It is wise to start with about a gallon of brake fluid. Depending upon your car, and the mistakes you may make, it's wise to have an ample supply.

Now, make sure that all the bleeder valves are closed tightly. Disconnect the pressure system from the reservoir. Now, get your family member to press down repeatedly on the brake pedal at least five times, and then hold it down. Then open the bleeder valve on the right rear caliper. The system should lose pressure, and the pedal should sink to the floor. When the fluid stops coming out of the bleeder valve, close the valve, and then tell your family member to let their foot off of the pedal. Do not let them take their foot off until you have completely closed the valve. Repeat this motion for each valve at least three times. Repeat this entire procedure for all the valves in the same order as described previously.

Then, let the car sit for about 10 minutes. Repeat the bleeding process at each corner. The pedal should now feel pretty stiff.

If the pedal still feels spongy, make sure that you have the proper adjustment on your rear calipers or drum shoes. Also, you may need a new master cylinder, have a leaky caliper, or have old spongy flexible brake lines.

Be sure to rinse off brake fluid that has spilled on painted surfaces with water. Wiping it will only smear the paint more (I talk from experience here).

Well that's about all it takes. If you would like to see more technical articles like this one, please continue to support Pelican Parts with all your parts needs. Your continued support directly affects the expansion and existence of this site and technical articles like this one. As always, if you have any questions or comments about this helpful article, please drop us a line.
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  #12  
Old 09-10-2006, 10:07 AM
Tumbleweed Tumbleweed is offline
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From Carcentral.net

By: Chris Stephens (10/13/02)
Tools and Supplies:
Basic Hand Tool Set, Vacuum Bleeding Kit, Jack & Jack Stands, Brake Fluid


Brake System Knowledge
This guide is intended to provide you with a basic understanding of the various methods of how to bleed brakes; not to provide in-depth knowledge of brake systems. It will assume that you are familiar with the basic components of a modern brake system such as the master cylinders, brake calipers, wheel cylinders, rotors, drums, pads, shoes, et cetera. It is often helpful--and sometimes necessary--to lift the vehicle and remove the wheels in order to gain access to the bleeder screws. Use extreme caution to ensure your car or truck is properly supported at all times. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.


Brake System Problems
Over time, the hydraulic brake fluid in your car's brake system will absorb moisture. Moisture lowers the boiling point of brake fluid and allows the brake system's steel components to corrode. If the boiling point of the brake fluid in your vehicle drops too low, the heat produced when you apply the brakes will cause the brake fluid to boil. When this happens, your pedal may start to feel spongy, require greater force to stop the vehicle, or may fail completely! Furthermore, if the corrosion manages to eat through a steel component such as a brake line, you will lose all brake pressure and will be unable to stop the vehicle! To keep your brakes in tip-top shape, it is recommended that you have your brake fluid flushed as often as once every two years.


Brake Bleeding vs. Flushing
The term "bleeding" means to remove the air locked in the brake system; whereas, the term "flushing" means to remove all of the old fluid and replacing it with new, clean fluid. Mechanics will usually bleed the brakes after a component has been replaced and the hydraulic system had to be "opened". To flush your vehicle's brake system, simply continue bleeding each wheel until the fluid runs clean. Considering the high cost of replacing brake system components, it is often wise to do a complete flush.


Brake Bleeding Methods
There are three methods of bleeding that can be done without prohibitively expensive equipment: manual brake bleeding, vacuum brake bleeding, and gravity brake bleeding. Whether bleeding a master cylinder on a bench, or a brake caliper or wheel cylinder on the car or truck, the principle is the same. You want to force air and fluid out and add new fluid, all while preventing fresh air from entering the system. Regardless of the method you choose, you'll quickly realize the trick is to keep the brake fluid moving in only one direction; from the master cylinder through to the brake calipers or wheel cylinders. Be sure to keep topping up the master cylinder with brake fluid as you bleed each wheel and after you are finished to prevent it from running low and pulling fresh air into the system. When the system is full of clean brake fluid and there is no air trapped inside, the brake pedal should be high and firm.


Method 1: Manual Bleeding
Manual brake bleeding is the most common method of bleeding brakes; however, you will need to enlist the help of an assistant. With your assistant sitting in the driver's seat, repeat the following six steps a number of times on each brake until you are sure there is no air trapped in the system. Use a narrow block of wood behind the pedal to prevent it from travelling all the way to the floor. Lastly, place a three foot piece of vinyl hose on the end of the bleeder screw to direct old fluid into a plastic container.


Instruct your assistant to pump the brake pedal for thirty seconds
Instruct your assistant to press and hold the brake pedal firmly
Open a bleeder screw and let the air and old fluid escape
Close the bleeder screw
Instruct your assistant to release the brake pedal
Wait fifteen seconds
Method 2: Vacuum Bleeding
Vacuum bleeding has the advantage of being a one-person job, but requires a special tool known as a vacuum tester or brake bleeding kit. The tool is fairly inexpensive and can be ordered online by clicking on the link above. Whereas manual brake bleeding requires you to "push" brake fluid out; the object of vacuum bleeding is to "pull" brake fluid out. Repeat the following three steps on each brake.


Connect the hose from the vacuum tool to the bleeder screw and then open the bleeder screw
Pump the tool until the fluid leaving the bleeder screw runs clean and is free of bubbles
Close the bleeder screw and disconnect the vacuum tool hose
Method 3: Gravity Bleeding
Gravity bleeding is the easiest method of bleeding brakes. Simply, repeat the following two steps on each brake. Unfortunately, leaving the screw open for any length of time will allow it to absorb moisture. Additionally, air bubbles may be trapped in the system and need to be worked out using a vacuum or pressure bleeding method. The gravity bleeding method can be used when only a brake caliper or wheel cylinder was replaced.


Open one bleeder screw at a time and wait until the air works its way out of the system
Close the bleeder screw when clean brake fluid runs from the bleeder screw
Master Cylinders
In most circumstances, you will not need to bleed a master cylinder. This is usually only done when the master cylinder has been replaced or left open for several hours. New master cylinders should be bench bled before being installed on the vehicle. Regardless of whether you are bench bleeding the cylinder or bleeding it in the vehicle, you will need to make or purchase a set of short brake lines which screw into the master cylinder and loop back up into the reservoir. Use the outlet fittings in place of bleeder screws to bleed the master cylinder. These fittings should be opened while pressing the piston or brake pedal and closed when the piston is allowed to return. If you are bleeding the master cylinder on a bench, use a round rod inside the master cylinder to press the piston. When finished, install the new master cylinder and bleed each wheel completely.


Bleeder Screws
Disc brakes are bled through bleeder screws located in the brake calipers. If the bleeder screw is old it may be difficult to remove or loosen without breaking, as the taper of the bleeder screw will seize against its seat in the caliper. Sometimes tapping the caliper near the bleeder screw (but not on the bleeder screw) with a hammer, while trying to turn the screw, will jolt or break the taper. It is not recommended to use heat to remove the screw as you can damage the seals in the caliper. Drum brakes are bled through the bleeder screw on the back of the wheel cylinder. Like brake calipers, the bleeder screw may be seized in place and difficult to remove. If a bleeder screw breaks it may be possible to drill it out and retap the threads. Otherwise, a new caliper or wheel cylinder will need to be installed.


Brake Fluid
You should find three common types of brake fluid at your local auto parts store: DOT3, DOT4, and DOT5. DOT3 is the most common and should also be the cheapest. Unfortunately, DOT3 brake fluid also absorbs moisture the fastest and has the lowest boiling point. DOT4 is also fairly common but is a little more expensive. DOT4 is designed to absorb moisture slower and has a higher boiling point. DOT5 is not as common and is the most expensive. DOT5 does not absorb any moisture and has the highest boiling point. DOT3 and DOT4 are clear to amber in color, while DOT5 is purple. The personal at your local auto parts store should be able to determine which type of fluid is required for your vehicle and how much will be required. You can use DOT4 wherever DOT3 is specified, and DOT5 only on cars or trucks not equipped with ABS (unless otherwise indicated in your owner's manual). If you do choose to switch to a higher quality brake fluid, it is strongly recommended that you perform a complete brake system flush. Never use a mineral based oil, such as engine oil or transmission fluid, in place of proper brake fluid. Mineral oil will cause all of the rubber parts in the hydraulic system to swell up and leak. Lastly, take care when handling brake fluid. It can damage the finish of a painted surface.


Disclaimer
While we make every attempt to insure this information is complete and accurate, it is impossible to account for every scenario. Please consult with a local technician before attempting to perform any work you are not qualified to do. Automobiles can be hazardous to work on; be sure to take all necessary safety precautions. Failure to do so may result in property damage or personal injury.


Copyright ? 2003 Car Central Automotive Company, All Rights Reserved.
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  #13  
Old 09-10-2006, 10:13 AM
Tumbleweed Tumbleweed is offline
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From Hitman's Pontiac Trans Am:

Pontiac Trans Am Page | 1978 Pontiac Trans Am

Parts | Carb Rebuild | Rear Gears | Hoses | Valve Cover | Oil Change | Transmission | Shaker Scoop | Window Runs | Stereo | Power Steering | Coil Springs | Heater Core | Front Brakes | Rear Brakes | Master Cylinder | Bleeding the Brakes | Storing the Car | Cosmetic Changes | Exhaust System | Coolant System | Snowflake Rims | Idler Arm | Rear Leaf Spring | Leaning Seats | Headliner

__________________________________________________ ________________________________________________

Bleeding the Brakes


Ok, now that I have replaces the rear brakes, the front brakes, and the master cylinder, it is time to bleed the braking system. This is not too bad as long as you have two people to do it. The first thing that I have to tell you about is the Combination valve that is located right under the master cylinder. This valve does three things (hence the name "combination"). First, it cuts down on the pressure in the front brakes in order to build up enough pressure in the rear brakes to balance the braking system out. The second thing that it does is release pressure on the rear brakes in heavy deceleration to prevent the rear brakes from locking up and losing control of your vehicle. The third thing that it does is contain a switch that if there is pressure loss in either the front or the rear brake lines, it slides a piston either to the front or back which contacts a switch to turn on the brake light inside your car to let you know that there is a problem. If this light comes on, then you know that there is a problem with either your front or rear brakes. When you are done bleeding the brakes, this switch should center itself back out (like in my case). If it doesn't, and the light stays on, you need to do it manually. More on that later on. Ok, so now you know about the combination valve. There is a pin located on the end of the valve that you need to keep depressed in while bleeding the brakes. This pin keeps the braking system open and allows you to correctly bleed the brakes. If you don't hold this pin in, then it shuts of the front brakes because it feels that there is an imbalance in the system. I just used a c-clamp to hold this open while I did the brakes. Now, what you want to do is make sure that there is enough fluid in the reservoir at all times while you do this. Keep the lid on the master cylinder, but don't use the clamp on the top of it. You just want to keep brake fluid from splashing anywhere, and make sure you keep checking the fluid level!

You want to start with the shortest line and work your way away from the master cylinder. Start at the drivers front brake, then work to the passenger front brake, then to the drivers rear brake and finally the passengers rear brake. This is where having two people comes in handy. Have one person sit inside the car to pump the brakes when you tell them to. Start at the drivers front brake and use a clear plastic tube and a clear bottle filled with brake fluid so that you can see when all of the air is out of the lines. Attach the clear plastic tube (and yes, I know the one in the picture is black, but that is all I had so give me a brake)(no pun intended) to the end of the bleeder valve located on the top of the calipers and feed the other end into the plastic bottle. Open the valve and have the person inside the car start to slowly "pump" the brakes You will see (and maybe hear) air being pushed out of the system. The plastic bottle filled with brakes fluid is there so that when the person releases the brake pedal, fluid is sucked back in instead of air. Once you see only fluid coming out, have the person push slowly on the brake pedal as you close off the bleeder valve. Make sure you close off the valve before he reaches the floor and releases the brake pedal. Now repeat this step on the front passengers side of the car. The rear brakes work the same way. the bleeder valve for the rear brakes is located behind the drum just above the brake line where it enters the wheel cylinder. Make sure you keep checking the reservoir to keep enough fluid in there to prevent air from entering the master cylinder. If this happens, you must start all over again and you don't want to do that. Do this to all 4 tires and the brake pedal should now be firm and difficult to push in (as long as the car is off.... which it should be.... I guess I should have said that from the start is that all of the bleeding is done with the car off). Anyway, as long as the brake pedal is firm you should be done. If the pedal is still soft and mushy, then there is probably still air in the system. Either you didn't bench bleed the master cylinder correctly, or the is air somewhere in the system. If the brakes are firm, you can now remove the c-clamp from the combination valve. Now you should be able to turn the ignition key on and see if the brake light went out. If it didn't, leave the key on (not car started) and you have to do it manually. To do this you need to recenter the switch by starting with the front driver caliper first. Have someone SLOWLY push on the brake pedal as you open the front bleeder valve, the light should slowly go out. Make sure you close the valve before they release the pedal so that you don't introduce air back into the system. If the light doesn't go out, then the switch must be pushed the other way. Once again, have someone SLOWLY push on the brake pedal as you open the bleeder valve on the drivers rear brake and the light should slowly go out and the switch should be re-centered. And now your done.
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  #14  
Old 09-10-2006, 10:39 AM
mrblaine mrblaine is offline
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Re: from drivewerks

Quote:
Originally posted by T.Dome
Ask your assistant to firmly and quickly press on the pedal 3 times, and hold it down the third time. .

There's what I'm looking for. How many times is that posted that you all can find?
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  #15  
Old 09-10-2006, 10:42 AM
mrblaine mrblaine is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tumbleweed



Instruct your assistant to pump the brake pedal for thirty seconds




Copyright ? 2003 Car Central Automotive Company, All Rights Reserved.
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  #16  
Old 09-10-2006, 11:27 AM
Jim M Jim M is offline
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Here it is again from stoptech.com, step 7.

7. Instruct the assistant to "apply." The assistant should pump the brake pedal three times, hold the pedal down firmly, and respond with "applied." Instruct the assistant not to release the brakes until told to do so.

There's 1.
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  #17  
Old 09-10-2006, 12:36 PM
Kiwi Kiwi is offline
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From my post above:

" Now, get your family member to press down repeatedly on the brake pedal at least five times, and then hold it down. "

From looking around there are more sites out there that instruct on pumping the pedal 3 or more times than not, therefore it must be true
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  #18  
Old 09-10-2006, 06:21 PM
Stu Olson Stu Olson is offline
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From my web site:

(copied from http://www.stu-offroad.com/suspensio...brakebleed.htm)


With the engine NOT running (yes, I said not running), have your helper sit in the driver seat so that he or she can completely depress the brake pedal. Instruct your helper to push hard on the pedal and continue doing so until you tell them to stop. When they have applied pedal pressure, carefully crack open the bleeder nipple to let the air and brake fluid run out and into the glass. As you bleed off the air and fluid, the brake pedal will sink to the floor board. Once it does, close the bleeder nipple and instruct your helper to release the brake pedal. Wait about 5 seconds and repeat this process again.....apply brake pedal pressure....crack open the bleeder nipple....watch the air and fluid bubble out....close the bleeder nipple.....release the brake pedal.

Depending on how much air is in the brake lines, you will need to do the above procedure a number of times. Once I get three or four good bleeds, where there is no longer any air bubbling out, I move to the next tire. If it has been a while since your brake fluid has been flushed, you will notice some pretty dark fluid coming out the line. When the new fresh fluid replaces the old fluid in the brake lines, you'll see much cleaner fluid coming out (which is why I prefer to use a glass container).

Be sure to check your master cylinder level before you start bleeding the first time and after finishing with each tire. The brake fluid level in the master cylinder reservoir will drop as the trapped air is pushed out of the brake lines. If you let the reservoir level drop to low, it will suck air and put it into the system. This is NOT cool and then you will have to start all over since you will have air at the very beginning of the brake lines and it all needs to be bled off. You don't want this to happen! I can usually bleed both back brakes before I need to add fluid. I then can normally do both front brakes before topping off the reservoir and calling the job done.

Be careful NOT to get brake fluid on your paint finish. The two don't get along and your paint will be the one that comes out on the short end of the stick.
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  #19  
Old 09-10-2006, 06:36 PM
mrblaine mrblaine is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Stu Olson
From my web site:

(copied from http://www.stu-offroad.com/suspensio...brakebleed.htm)


With the engine NOT running (yes, I said not running), have your helper sit in the driver seat so that he or she can completely depress the brake pedal. Instruct your helper to push hard on the pedal and continue doing so until you tell them to stop. When they have applied pedal pressure, carefully crack open the bleeder nipple to let the air and brake fluid run out and into the glass. As you bleed off the air and fluid, the brake pedal will sink to the floor board. Once it does, close the bleeder nipple and instruct your helper to release the brake pedal. Wait about 5 seconds and repeat this process again.....apply brake pedal pressure....crack open the bleeder nipple....watch the air and fluid bubble out....close the bleeder nipple.....release the brake pedal.

Depending on how much air is in the brake lines, you will need to do the above procedure a number of times. Once I get three or four good bleeds, where there is no longer any air bubbling out, I move to the next tire. If it has been a while since your brake fluid has been flushed, you will notice some pretty dark fluid coming out the line. When the new fresh fluid replaces the old fluid in the brake lines, you'll see much cleaner fluid coming out (which is why I prefer to use a glass container).

Be sure to check your master cylinder level before you start bleeding the first time and after finishing with each tire. The brake fluid level in the master cylinder reservoir will drop as the trapped air is pushed out of the brake lines. If you let the reservoir level drop to low, it will suck air and put it into the system. This is NOT cool and then you will have to start all over since you will have air at the very beginning of the brake lines and it all needs to be bled off. You don't want this to happen! I can usually bleed both back brakes before I need to add fluid. I then can normally do both front brakes before topping off the reservoir and calling the job done.

Be careful NOT to get brake fluid on your paint finish. The two don't get along and your paint will be the one that comes out on the short end of the stick.
I already checked your site Stu. Trust me, had you included the assinine pump the pedal 3 times BS in your write-up, we would have already had a conversation about it. In a good way.
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  #20  
Old 09-10-2006, 08:51 PM
Stu Olson Stu Olson is offline
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I wrote mine form scratch......didn't copy it from another site. (you get in much less trouble that way)
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  #21  
Old 09-11-2006, 09:47 AM
Croaker Croaker is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Stu Olson
I wrote mine form scratch......didn't copy it from another site. (you get in much less trouble that way)
ROTFLMAO!
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