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  #1  
Old 07-05-2002, 08:46 AM
Hyperman Hyperman is offline
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Angry LA Times article on the Rubicon

Once again the Times has written a negative article on the off roading community. This time they focused on a yahoo who believes that getting drunk on the trail is why he is there. Why couldn't the author have been with us last weekend, or pick a group from the 90% who behave. He also touched on Surprise Canyon and Glamis.

The editiorial in yesterday's paper was against snowmobiles in Yellowstone. They are on an almost daily slamming of the recreational community. It is like the Sierra club and the Center for Biodiversity write these articles. Any by the way, a CFB person got his letter published in today's paper also.
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  #2  
Old 07-05-2002, 09:20 AM
Robert J. Yates Robert J. Yates is offline
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I just read that too and I am greatly offended. I would post the link but you have to register with them.

Please write a letter to the editor - all the times ever does is write about the yaahoo aspect of the sport as if there are no others enjoying it. I do have to admit though, its the yaahoos that are doing us in as well.
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  #3  
Old 07-05-2002, 09:45 AM
JeepKat JeepKat is offline
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Post Here is the article

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CELEBRATING FREEDOM
Off-Roading Mecca at a Crossroads
Recreation: The king of four-wheeler trails, the Rubicon, is so popular that its future is at risk.
By RONE TEMPEST
TIMES STAFF WRITER

July 5 2002

LOON LAKE, Calif. -- To Shad Sarti, there is no more fitting celebration of American freedom than riding his customized 625-horsepower Toyota monster truck on the Rubicon Trail.

A Caltrans highway line striper from Redding, Sarti, 29, was here at the High Sierra trail head for his ninth consecutive Fourth of July weekend.

"There is nothing more American than four-wheeling," said Sarti, "and nowhere more American than the Rubicon." The Halloween death mask was already in place on the spare-tire rack. Sarti's wife Renee, 23, unfurled the Confederate flag to fly above the cab. When Renee stripped to her swimsuit, a checklist posted on the back of Sarti's truck trailer was complete: "Beer. Bad Ass Trucks. American Pride. Women Wearing Bikinis."

To some, the Independence Day weekend may mean tall ships in Boston Harbor, a parade on Main Street or fireworks over a darkened baseball diamond. But the Sartis and hundreds of others find the essence of America with an annual pilgrimage to one of the nation's most famous four-wheel trails.

"This is Christmas in the summer for four-wheelers," said Will Coelho, 22, who was with friends from Walnut Creek. "You can be as loud as you want here and drink as much as you want."

The rugged dirt path from the western Sierra Nevada to Lake Tahoe is holy ground for the millions of Americans who enjoy off-road driving. By day's end Sunday, 2,000 to 3,000 people are expected to have lumbered and careened on some part of the 22-mile pathway that has earned a "most difficult" Class-10 rating from the expanding off-road community.

"The Rubicon is the crown jewel of off-roading," said Del Albright, a retired California Forestry Department firefighter. He holds the title "trail boss" for the Friends of the Rubicon, a recently mustered organization dedicated to keeping the mountain trail open for four-wheelers, motorcycles, mountain bikes and equestrians.

"This is the oldest and hardest continuous four-wheel-drive trail in the world," said Dan Mainwaring of Georgetown, Calif., president of Jeepers Jamboree, which this year celebrates its 50th anniversary as host of an annual Rubicon trail rally. "Most people feel that if you haven't done the Rubicon, you haven't four-wheeled."

In 1953, the former Indian foot trail and stagecoach route was the setting for the country's first organized four-wheel-drive event. Flat granite and boulder-strewn sluices provide a dream venue for those who love to test machine against nature.

The U.S. Army's super-secret Delta Force trained here before leaving for Afghanistan. Chrysler Corp. sponsors several annual promotional excursions for Jeeps on the trail. The company recently announced a 2003 Rubicon model of its Jeep Wrangler. The Rubicon's renown has never been greater. But its problems have become so obvious that they are acknowledged not just by environmentalists, but even by mainstream off-road organizations. Like many of America's favorite off-road venues, the Rubicon is in danger of being loved to death.

Pressure from the estimated 70,000 off-roaders who make the pilgrimage here each summer is taking a toll. The delicate mile-high terrain is scarred from renegade drivers who leave the main trail. Human waste fouls the path. And erosion has become so extreme that a regional water agency last year temporarily banned use of the trail to protect runoff bound for Lake Tahoe.

The Rubicon symbolizes the predicament faced by many California forest areas under increasing pressure from a recreation-crazed populace. According to the state Department of Parks and Recreation, 3.5 million Californians, representing 14% of all households, participate in some form of motorized off-road activity.

Extreme sports television marketing urges Americans to confront nature rather than passively enjoy it: A lake is not simply a lake; it is a water challenge. A stream is not something in which to languidly dangle a toe; it is a barrier, it is to be forded.

Said Daphne Greene, head of the state Off-Highway Motor Vehicle Recreation Commission: "It is extremely difficult to educate the off-road community when you turn on the TV and you see a vehicle crashing through the air and slamming through meadows and rivers."

"The reality is that more trails will be shut down," said Greene, a Gov. Gray Davis appointee who owns her own San Rafael off-road consulting company, "because people think this kind of behavior is acceptable."

Rubicon veterans in the Sierra foothills are perplexed about how to go about saving the famous trail while keeping it open for public use.

"Part of the problem is that the Rubicon is so popular that on some weekends it gets overloaded," said Mark Smith, a 75-year-old former lumberjack, who is considered one of the fathers of American off-roading.

After helping start the first Jeepers Jamboree in 1953 as part of a Georgetown Chamber of Commerce campaign to attract tourists to the Sierra foothill community, Smith has gone on to build a sizable business as an off-road consultant to Chrysler's Jeep division, the U.S. military and others.

Smith led an effort 15 years ago to get the trail declared an "unmaintained county road" in hopes that it would help protect it against environmental restrictions. He strongly defends continued use of the Rubicon and opposes any type of permit system that would restrict access to off-roaders.

"This is one trail they can't take away from us," Smith said.

But like other old-timers, Smith said he is concerned by a new breed of renegade off-roaders who come to the trail intent on destruction. They stage "bash-athons," flinging their vehicles into as many obstacles as possible, and "stacking" events--piling vehicles one on top of another. On Thursday, despite signs warning drivers away from wetlands, deep tire grooves were obvious in several marshy lakeshore areas.

"The last four years, there have been a lot of these people coming here, abusing our trail," agreed Mainwaring, who replaced Smith as president of Jeepers' Jamboree. "Law enforcement has to get tougher."

In addition to the growing lawlessness that includes use of firearms and excessive drinking, the Rubicon also faces considerable sanitation and environmental challenges. The most difficult may be what to do about the estimated 75,000 pounds of human waste produced during the course of a single summer. Other than encouraging people to pack their waste out with them, no solution has been offered. The terrain is too rocky to dig effective latrines and too remote to maintain portable toilets.

Erosion also poses a potential problem, particularly on the Lake Tahoe side of the trail.

After complaints that sediment from the trail was spewing into Lake Tahoe, a regional water board issued a violation notice to Placer County in December 2000. But the notice was withdrawn a year later after an extraordinary volunteer effort in which trail true believers turned out en masse to rebuild a portion of the Rubicon to prevent sediment from spilling into a feeder creek.

Albright, the "trail boss," and another crew of volunteers were on the trail again this week, ahead of the July 4 onslaught. They drained mudholes and put up barriers to block bypasses used by some renegade drivers.

Because of the trail's history and the strong community support to keep it maintained, the Rubicon has never been a cause celebre for environmentalists the way, for example, the now-banned Barstow-to-Las Vegas desert race was a decade ago. When three environmental groups filed a federal lawsuit in February against the El Dorado National Forest, demanding that off-road trails be clearly marked, they were careful to point out that they were not targeting the Rubicon.

"At least on the Rubicon, people have acknowledged the problems and are trying to solve them," said Karen Schambach, director of the Center for Sierra Nevada Conservation and one of the plaintiffs in the suit. "I'd be happy if the other trails got as much attention."

David Widell, the governor's appointee who heads the state Off-Highway Motor Vehicle Recreation Division, contends that the Rubicon is too powerful a cultural and political icon for a direct confrontation between off-roaders and environmentalists.

"The Rubicon," Widell said, "isn't just another designated trail. This is the 1,000-pound gorilla. Mix that with Lake Tahoe and you have a complicated political situation. The fortunate part is that, with something this big, it forces people to deal with the issue at a higher level of thought, rather than just shutting it down."

The recent El Dorado lawsuit and the water board action were wake-up calls for California off-road enthusiasts, many of whom already felt themselves under siege. Over the last 18 months, off-road closures have hit a trail at Surprise Canyon, near Death Valley National Park, and at the Imperial Sand Dunes Recreational Area east of Brawley.

The Surprise Canyon closure was ordered when the U.S. Interior Department determined that off-road vehicle use was damaging habitat, including that of the endangered Mojave desert tortoise.

At the Imperial dunes north of the Mexican border, the shutdown of an area popular with dune buggy enthusiasts was designed to protect Peirson's milk vetch, an endangered plant that grows only in the Imperial Valley desert.

"When Surprise Canyon shut down," Greene said, "I thought, 'Oh, God! The Rubicon could be next.' "

But, at least for now, the Rubicon roars on.

By late Thursday morning, several dozen spectators had already gathered at a famously difficult part of the Rubicon Trail called Little Sluice Box. Some sat in lawn chairs drinking beer and shouting encouragement and criticism as Tim Williamson of Turlock bent the front drive shaft of his new Jeep Wrangler.

Such a blow might be devastating to many people, but Williamson accepted it with a shrug.

"The truck just slipped and landed flat on my dern drive shaft," said Williamson, 30, whose 4-year-old son was in the cab with him at the time.

The boy also seemed unfazed. In fact, he had the look of a future off-roader himself.

"Heck, that boy's first word was 'twisted' (an off-road term)," said his father. "All he plays with at home are monster trucks that he drives over rocks and ramps."
If you want other stories on this topic, search the Archives at latimes.com/archives. For information about reprinting this article, go to www.lats.com/rights.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Copyright 2002 Los Angeles Times

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  #4  
Old 07-05-2002, 09:50 AM
Jeff McRae Jeff McRae is offline
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Kat,

Don't hold your breath waiting for the Times to EVER publish anything pro-Off Road (or pro gun, pro anything remotely resembling anything but Big Brother knows what's best for you), blue might not be your best color.

BTDT, yanked my subscription 20 years ago - never regretted it.
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  #5  
Old 07-05-2002, 10:30 AM
TJRON TJRON is offline
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For the LA Times, that article was not too bad. The Review Journal here in Las Vegas just had a scathing article due to the fact that 66,000 acres were not included in the proposed 444,000 acres they are going to close. The tree huggers said it was a "good start".
When I lived in San Francisquito Canyon near Saugus an LA Times reporter came claiming to be doing an article on the old Butterworth Stage Route. What he actually did was bait the locals about the housing supplied by the DW&P to employees located in the National Forest. The article was so slanted and misquoted, it was rediculous. Everyone interviewed came across as idiots.
My wife was interviewed by the RJ here in Las Vegas about a Hallmark Ornament Collectors Club. He made her and the members sound like idiots. When she called him on it he said, "Your friends will know I was untruthfull and no one else cares".
Lesson learned. Don't talk to the press or believe anything they write.
The poor kid they quoted was probably baited, misquoted or never made the statements they credit to him.
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  #6  
Old 07-05-2002, 11:35 AM
Robert J. Yates Robert J. Yates is offline
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My Letter to the LA Times

Editor;
I have grown tired of your constant depiction of just one side of the folks whom are involved in the sport and hobby of off roading. Not all of us are beer swilling, earth destroying "yaahoos" as your publication regularly seems to infer. A good many of us are in fact productive members of society, practicing a hobby that allows us to venture off the beaten path with our family and friends.

The Rubicon is and has been an active through fare, as was Surprise Canyon which was also mentioned in the article. As opposed to beer drinking and its associated endeavors, historical antidotes as well as sheer natural beauty await for those of us who appreciate them. We thrive on the communal experience, the ability to learn, and the challenge that these trails offer to us.

These trails are located in areas where there has been human passage and other activity in some form or another for many many years. Closing them under the guise of wilderness protection is a specious argument and an affront to tax paying citizens and their ability to traverse public lands.

As your article alluded to but did not clearly point out, there are alot of us that are volunteering our time and resources to police our off road environments and those that use them. You would do your readers a great service to write an article about that to serve as a counter to the "anti-recreationist" viewpoint that seems to emanate regularly from your pages.
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Old 07-05-2002, 12:46 PM
TJRON TJRON is offline
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The more I think about it and re-read that article, it probably is a fair picture of the Rubicon Trail on the 4th of July.
The week-end before the 4th, when I was there, the situation was similar. Spider Lake was obviously a place to party. Drinking, loud music, comings and goings all through the night with music blaring seemed to be the norm. Crapping on the rocks going into the lake seemed acceptable to some previous visitors. Toilet paper is all over the place. Cans are left in fire pits as if they will magically disappear. At Little Sluice, head banging music, beer drinking and heckling folks doing the obstacles also seemed to be normal behavior.
I know I'm an old fart, but I doubt you will see me on the Rubicon Trail on a week end again. On Sunday night the quiet was bliss. You could hear the crickets! There were few on the trail Monday. I'm sad for those that have no time other than week ends to get out. My next visit will definitely be on week days and I can guarantee there will be a next visit if it's still open!
Ron
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Old 07-05-2002, 01:21 PM
ukjeeper ukjeeper is offline
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I'm kinda behind Ron on this one. I think the article showed that there are Morons on the trail who are going to F it up for the rest of us. The reporter actually talked to a lot of the real wheelers, and included quotes from them. It did surprise me just HOW busy the trail gets, i never knew there was that much traffic. I can see how the poop everywhere would be a problem, But thats a matter of walking a lot further into the trees with a shovel.
Never actually done Rubicon yet (hopefully next year), but i think i'll be planning to go midweek, to avoid the crowds.
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Old 07-05-2002, 01:38 PM
Robert J. Yates Robert J. Yates is offline
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I am not saying Ron is wrong or what is going on out there is not happening. What I am saying is that there is always a biasd slant in the LA Times as if the only people wheeling are confederate flag waving drunks - man that just ****es me off
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Old 07-05-2002, 01:53 PM
Robert J. Yates Robert J. Yates is offline
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Not to beat a dead horse but.....

If they are so worried about the human waste, why not build some facilities.? Anybody who has climbed Mt. Whitney will know what I am talking about when I say that solar pit latrines will solve alot of their problems. There are 2 of these up on the mtn, one at 10,000 feet and another at 12,000'. If they can build them to work on that rockpile, there is no reason why they can't make it work on the Con.

And that brings up another point, if all those backpacking greenies weren't up on Mt. Whitney, they wouldn't need them. So why is it ok for one form of recreation and not another
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Old 07-05-2002, 04:32 PM
Paradiddle Paradiddle is offline
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Yeah!!!

Give the govenor a hurmff!!!

Nice letter Robert. The times is a liberal rag however.

Jeff
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Old 07-05-2002, 06:02 PM
Mark Hinkley Mark Hinkley is offline
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The Times article was written to make us "Jeeper" look as if we were all idiots. The reporter did this by taking partly true info, twisting it and misquoting it until he had this article, which is total BS on how bad it makes the TRUE "JEEPER" look to the unknowing public (Nonjeeper).

Examples:

Toyota with 625 hp Monster truck - RIGHT! It didn't have 625 hp and it wasn't a monster truck - might of had a v-8 and large tires. 37" tires arn't the same as 6' tires but the uninformed reader does't know that. He/she only knows what they have seen on tv - REAL MOSTER TRUCKS.

I would like to see info backing up his "Estimates" -
- 70,000 visitors each summer - if so it looks great for that many people!
- 75,000 lbs of human waste ? Thats a REAL LOT!

"Human waste fouls the path" - sure Spider Lake sucks but the rest of the trail is quit nice and clean - Tony in our camp used a trash bag and cleaned up our whole area before we left. We even picked up some trash on the way out.

The trail isn't 22 miles long. The Rubicon is around 9 miles with the fire road on the way out through Mickinnly lake area making up the rest. The Tahoe water district thing along Mickinnly was in part created by locals doing snow/mub runs during the winter. That is why a snow drift was put at the enterance by Homewood to keep winter time snow/mud runs down until the ground dried up.

I have never seen a Lake be used as "a water challange" by any jeep.

They don't stack their jeeps on top of each other, they stack tires on each other - again a complete different visual to the unknowing person reading this article.

I believe this guy did all his interviews with these people as if he was going to be the "GOOD GUY" and write a "PRO RUBICON" article. He most likely faked out all these guys and minipulated all their quotes. It is sad to see people write stuff like this. It is hard enough to explain to nonjeepers the correct way we Jeep and take care of our lands. However when guys like this, spread lies to people who belive everything they read in the paper, it makes our position hard to gain public support. These nonjeepers just let the politians do the closing because they all think we only go out with our Jeeps to destroy instead of enjoy.

Once again a couple of guys make it look bad for the rest, even though they were most likely faked out by this reporter, who lied through his teeth. I hope this reports career goes down the tubes.

mark hinkley
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  #13  
Old 07-07-2002, 01:00 PM
cbassett cbassett is offline
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I'm with Ron on this, and Mark Smith made some good points in a few of his quotes.

To Hinkley, and my responses to your statements are based on what I see when I visit the Rubicon several times per year.

*625 is possible, likely the spouting of a drunk, prowd hick. Many of the rigs you'll see on the Rubicon on a daily basis can hardly be called "trucks" at all. To even include that word in their description is giving them more credit than they deserve.

*Spend more time on the trail and you'll find piles of crap and TP, everywhere.

*There are ALOT of tire trails in and on the edge of Loon and Buck Island Lake.

*"They" DO stack rigs on top of each other. There are very few times I can remember not seeing a stack of rigs piled on top of each other (not just their tires) on the slabs over the Sluice.

*Agree, the reporter did interview a poor selection of wheelers. But he did interview what I perceive to be the increasing representative of wheelers on the trail. There are alot more brazen, drunken, unfriendly assholes on the Rubicon, then there are family-oriented, outdoorloving wheelers.
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Old 07-07-2002, 03:13 PM
Mark Hinkley Mark Hinkley is offline
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Chris,

I don't get to run the Rubicon but usually once a year. So I'm not there on big, 4th of July type, weekends. So I haven't seen it ALL in person.

I was trying to show how the reporter wrote the story and how making glorified details can distort the real image of what goes on, and it is was NOT good for the jeeping world. Example of this, if someone reads your post the entire Rubicon trails is covered with tp/crap "everywhere". That image sure would turn me off from going on the Rubicon, if I didn't know better. This story is directed to the average, emotionally charged, Barbara Boxer loving, liberal reader base of the Times. Who are going to remember the gory details of monster trucks with 600 whatever horse power, tp/crap, vehicle stacking, and druck people the next time they are polled by BB and the greenies, if closing all the trails is a good thing or not. Great image we have.

That is why if this type of drunken totally out of control situation is going on we, the jeeping world, need to start waking up because if we are going to abuse it we ARE going to LOOSE it. So if that LA times article is true we, the jeeping world, really look like a bunch of idiots. No wonder we are loosing so many trails. I can only pray it's not that bad. As a group we need to let this be an eye openner to grow up and act like what we should while jeeping, BEING RESPONSIBLE.

Maybe I'm just getting old. I just took it personally what the reporter said, writing that crap because I don't act like that while jeeping. I must be lucky not to see anything at the level of abuse that he wrote about. To bad our enemies, the greenies, now see it loud and clear.

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Old 07-07-2002, 07:18 PM
Hyperman Hyperman is offline
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Wouldn't it be nice if we could get one of these writers on a run with us on this board? The only radio I heard was Ron playing the Three Tenors and that was on the trail.We had our beer and other stuff, but I don't think we bothered anyone. We had some really nice campfires and may have laughed at a few jokes loudly. The TP and crap is a real issue, as Mark says. If you don't believe that, you have some serious problems; and this was early in the season. I cannot imagine going on that trail after the fourth. We see these yahoos everywhere we go. Why does this 5-10% destroy our hobby for the rest of us? This is not only in Jeeping, but motorcyling, boating, etc.

As I write this, I am watching Huell Howser. He has a house in Twentynine Palms. Wonder if anyone has ever invited him to do a show on the Hammers? Wonder if we could make a positive impression on him? Just a thought. We get absolutely no positive press or any celebrities to come out an support the public land for the the public and not just the Greens. Wonder why? Too PIC?
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Old 07-07-2002, 10:55 PM
mrblaine mrblaine is offline
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The general slant seems to be that collectively, we are offended by the article. I was not.

I don't say much about this stuff, but I try to stay up to date as much as possible. What I read in the article seems to be a fairly accurate portrayal of most any summertime weekend on the Rubicon. I pick up bits and pieces here and there and not one thing that was alluded to in the article was or appeared to be untrue or made up.

As Rich said, we have them in every sport or hobby. The shining examples of what we don't like ourselves.

When I shot competitively, there were always a few that made frequent trips to their vehicles to toss back a few. Of course they always parked off of gun club property. When I fished, the buttheads were always there that were obnoxious, or downright rude.

I look at the article a bit differently. The way I see it, just maybe some of the average on the fence about getting involved, wheelers will read it and will be swayed to act differently. There is a fair contingent of people around that don't pay much attention or are even aware that things like this go on, and this may offend them enough to do something in our favor.

I do agree that almost any set of circumstances can be reported from any slant to be representative of a point of view. Sort of like statistics. They can be manipulated to show almost any view point.

The problem is there. The human waste is a problem. People do drink and as a result act in a manner that is bothersome, but also socially accepted. I also don't see it changing without closing down the trail. What are you going to do, put up an idiot filter at the entrance, a redneck filter, or what?

As far as Huel Howser or any other reputable source. How would you be able to convince any detractor that our way of doing things was not a set-up or an act put on for their benefit were that article to be written?

In order for it to have the most credibility we would have to be observed without our knowledge. I am certain that all of us would change some of our behavior were a journalist to go on a ride-along.

Maybe we would be extra careful where we placed our tires. That obstacle we always wanted to try would be put off until another day. We would warn the kids ahead of time that smashing cactus with big rocks is not an acceptable pasttime. The last guy that came out with us and imbibed a few too many, probably wouldn't be invited this time around. Maybe a cooler check would be in order in case the journalist wanted to snoop around a bit.

Who knows? I would venture a guess though that with prior knowledge, we would also act differently.
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Old 07-07-2002, 11:56 PM
JeepKat JeepKat is offline
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The Rubicon is no different than a work place. There will always be ?Yahoo?s? wherever you go. There are people who are not too bright and others who lack ethics, morals and principals. Every work place is the same; if you change jobs you just have a different set of ?Yahoo?s? to deal with. Not everybody views life the same way. It?s just the nature of some people, and you can?t change a person?s true nature, you can only change how you deal with the situation. If everyone acted and thought like responsible four wheelers and environmentalists, then the problem would not exist. But that is just not reality.

For instance, if a sign was posted at the beginning of the Rubicon trail that stated ?No Alcohol Beyond This Point? and stiff fines were imposed of anyone who was caught, do you think that the behavior of the people would change? I?m not talking about the casual drinker, I?m speaking of people who look for something to do while they are drinking. Or would it just cause them to go somewhere else? Is that what we are trying to accomplish, to make them go somewhere else that we wouldn?t care to go so that we can enjoy our trails? Or are we trying to make it stop all together? How can we accomplish what we want without imposing more restrictions and laws upon everyone? By banishing the ?Drunken Yahoo?s? the casual drinker is also affected. Would the people who were interviewed act differently if the ?No Alcohol? ban were imposed? I?d have to venture that they wouldn?t be there in the first place.

By closing the trails the same rules are imposed upon everyone, and no one gets to enjoy the trails. Is there some way that we can fight to keep the trails open and the ?Drunken Yahoo?s? out at the same time? It is obvious that they don?t care if the trails are closed or not, they will just go somewhere else, and then when that place gets closed, they will just move on to the next place not caring about the impact that they are having on others.

I?m not attacking anyone or any group here, I?m just wondering if it would be different. I don?t have the answers.
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Old 07-08-2002, 08:13 AM
Robert J. Yates Robert J. Yates is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by JeepKat
It is obvious that they don?t care if the trails are closed or not, they will just go somewhere else, and then when that place gets closed, they will just move on to the next place not caring about the impact that they are having on others.
Heh, very true unfortunately. That is the part that is killing the image of our sport but we are not alone. I guess what gripes me though is that the forest service and other agencies routinely cater to the elements of the public that are not interested in recreation but rather in the party they can have so why should we be any different?

Blaine, I disagree with your thought that if we invited Huell Howser that folks would say its a set-up. So what if it is - we say the same thing about the anti recreationists and it doesn't bother them in the least. I think the idea is to get a particular viewpoint out in the public's mind. The Sierra Club routinely gets $20 here and there from joe couch potato and his wife who see their crap in the newspaper or the discovery channel without those people ever giving a thought to the groups' true agenda.

I do think though, if Howser were to be invited, it would have to be on a run where there is some historical interest with the main form of access being via Jeep. I do not think he is the right guy to take rock-crawling. I think the Rubicon, if even only for a day, would be a great run to take him on as an example.
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Old 07-08-2002, 08:22 AM
cbassett cbassett is offline
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Mark,
I had a feeling that's where you were coming from. I just wanted to paint a real picture, from a perspective of one that sees the trail more; Didn't mean to attack, now that I reread my post, I did come off a little harsh. Sorry .


More laws, banning this or banning that, are not the answer. We already have plenty of laws covering the enumerous violations occuring on most summer weekends on the Rubicon. We just need some enforcement of those laws, to keep the Yahoos in check.
Increased (read: ANY) Law Enforcement presence, at a minimum of on the big weekends has been a topic of discussion for a while. Last year they were present on the 4th and on Memorial. Don't know if they were present this weekend. Some perusing of POR should enlighten on how the weekend went.
I'm not much of a crowd person, especially when on a precious weekend of camping and wheeling with the family. Last year's Memorial run was bumper to bumper from Gatekeeper to the Sluice; IIRC, 4-6 hours it took.
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